Someone is copying my website!

[Instabus]

I've just found out today that the business I am about to launch is being blatantly copied.
What can I do?

I have the domain name instabusdirect.co.uk and it's about to launch as a directory for minibus and coach companies.
I just decided to do a google search for 'instabus direct' and I noticed there is an instabusdirect.com that was registered with goDaddy 1 month after I registered my domain with 123reg.

They don't appear to have made a huge amount of progress but have added a couple of business listings, (not so) coincidentally in a location where I used to live (Edinburgh) and a location where we tested some SEO (Devon).

I don't believe I can register the Trademark instabus because it contains the word 'bus' which describes what I do. Although it's not exactly what I do but I think my application will be refused on that basis.

I've reported this to GoDaddy and I await their response but is there anything else I can do?

 

[Panoramix IP]

I wouldn't rule out trade mark protection for INSTABUS. Siemens have the same mark registered but in relation to electrical supplies. I would say that their mark is just as "descriptive" as yours. The class specifications will need to be carefully crafted but I would say that you would have at least a 50/50 change of getting a trade mark registered. Bear in mind though that having a registered trade mark doesn't mean anything unless you are willing to commit time and money fighting possible infringements. What it would do is stop them from trade marking INSTABUS and stopping you from using the brand.

In reality, the best thing you can do is bring your platform to market and do a better job than what they can do, or even use a different brand now and protect that.

I hope that helps. Happy to discuss further.

 

[Mr D]

What have they copied?

The business type? Anyone can.
Doing it in locations? Anyone can.

Registering a website? Well you didn't want it so yes open to be grabbed by anyone.

What exactly have they copied from you?

 

[fisicx]

I've just found out today that the business I am about to launch is being blatantly copied.
What can I do?

Not a lot.

Directories are commonplace. There is nothing to stop anyone setting up a directory for buses.

And there is nothing from stopping them registering the .com.

It's worth pointing out that your idea won't ever be a viable business. Directories have had their day. People use apps, google, social media and other sources to find transportation. What they don't want to have to do is fill in two forms and not get a quote at the end of it.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

The domain name isn't so great that it's really key to your success. Making your site content unique and useful will protect you from future copycat attempts.

Now how do you make your site unique and useful, I wonder? For such a site, you users are the key in generating fresh an unique content. You can have that one for free.

 

[Instabus]

I wouldn't rule out trade mark protection for INSTABUS. Siemens have the same mark registered but in relation to electrical supplies. I would say that their mark is just as "descriptive" as yours. The class specifications will need to be carefully crafted but I would say that you would have at least a 50/50 change of getting a trade mark registered. Bear in mind though that having a registered trade mark doesn't mean anything unless you are willing to commit time and money fighting possible infringements. What it would do is stop them from trade marking INSTABUS and stopping you from using the brand.

In reality, the best thing you can do is bring your platform to market and do a better job than what they can do, or even use a different brand now and protect that.

I hope that helps. Happy to discuss further.

Thanks for the info.

I did see that Siemens have the same trademark. But from what I understand, your trademark can't contain a word that describes the services you provide. So there's nothing in that in relation to electronics (unless I'm missing something) but it does contain the word 'bus' which describes what I do. But you think it could still be 50/50 or are you touting for my business?

 

[Instabus]

What have they copied?

The business type? Anyone can.
Doing it in locations? Anyone can.

Registering a website? Well you didn't want it so yes open to be grabbed by anyone.

What exactly have they copied from you?

It's a pretty blatant copy. It's malicious in the timing of it.
I get what you're saying but surely their intent is clear?

I wouldn't be thinking like this if they hadn't called their business exactly the same name as mine! If it was called Coaches Direct, I would just suck it up and accept it.

 

[fisicx]

So there's nothing in that in relation to electronics (unless I'm missing something)

busbars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instabus

 

[Instabus]

Not a lot.

Directories are commonplace. There is nothing to stop anyone setting up a directory for buses.

And there is nothing from stopping them registering the .com.

It's worth pointing out that your idea won't ever be a viable business. Directories have had their day. People use apps, google, social media and other sources to find transportation. What they don't want to have to do is fill in two forms and not get a quote at the end of it.

As I mentioned above, it's the malicious intent by using exactly the same business name that I have a problem with. Of course anyone can copy a business idea and I have no issue with that.

As for your views on this business potential, that's your view and you're entitled to it. But you're totally wrong. I know my industry (11 years as a minibus and coach operator) and I know there is a need for this. Google and social media are useless for trying to find genuine operators for many reasons that I don't need to justify to you here.

 

[Instabus]

The domain name isn't so great that it's really key to your success. Making your site content unique and useful will protect you from future copycat attempts.

Now how do you make your site unique and useful, I wonder? For such a site, you users are the key in generating fresh an unique content. You can have that one for free.

Thanks for your feedback but I'm actually very happy with the name. Each to their own I guess.
I have numerous ways that I'm making this directory unique and useful. It's far more than just a directory as it forms part of a wider solution that will transform this industry.

 

[fisicx]

Google and social media are useless for trying to find genuine operators for many reasons that I don't need to justify to you here.

I disagree. I've never had a problem finding a minibus.

The problem with your site is the how it works. It's complicated and not user friendly. It may work well as a local service but it's going to cost you a very large wodge if you want to go national

 

[Instabus]

busbars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instabus

Thanks, that's useful to know how it relates to electronics. But the term itself does not directly scream out electronics. Whereas the word bus is obviously much more directly descriptive to what I do. That's why I don't feel it has potential to be trademarked. I'll research it more and possibly make an application.

 

[Instabus]

I disagree. I've never had a problem finding a minibus.

The problem with your site is the how it works. It's complicated and not user friendly. It may work well as a local service but it's going to cost you a very large wodge if you want to go national

I don't think you could have tested my website's functionality as it's currently locked for non administrators?
I'm putting the necessary resources into it for national coverage and rankings. A huge amount of SEO work has been going into it so far and will continue to do so. I can sell. I will sell subscriptions and that will more than cover the national growth.

 

[Instabus]

I disagree. I've never had a problem finding a minibus.

You can disagree all you like but having been in this industry for more than a decade, I can tell you that isn't the general experience. I have feedback from hundreds of punters from over the years that contradicts your view. For example, how do you distinguish between illegal operators and legit ones? Or how do you know that the company you are booking with isn't a broker that is pretending to be a local company and will charge you significantly more than going direct? Most people don't have the time to spend researching the companies enough so I'm saving them the trouble, and ultimately saving them money and a lot of hassle on the day of the booking.

 

[Mr D]

It's a pretty blatant copy. It's malicious in the timing of it.
I get what you're saying but surely their intent is clear?

I wouldn't be thinking like this if they hadn't called their business exactly the same name as mine! If it was called Coaches Direct, I would just suck it up and accept it.

Your description of their intent isn't clear.

They use the same name - you haven't trademarked it but you still get some protection on the name.
If you used it first.

 

[Mr D]

I don't think you could have tested my website's functionality as it's currently locked for non administrators?
I'm putting the necessary resources into it for national coverage and rankings. A huge amount of SEO work has been going into it so far and will continue to do so. I can sell. I will sell subscriptions and that will more than cover the national growth.

Good luck selling subscriptions at this time.

 

[fisicx]

It's also worth pointing out that the .com isn't ever going to be a competitor. Their website is so poor nobody is ever going to know it exists.

For example, how do you distinguish between illegal operators and legit ones? Or how do you know that the company you are booking with isn't a broker that is pretending to be a local company and will charge you significantly more than going direct?

Easy. If they didn't have a local number I ignored them. It's not difficult to spot a legit company.

I don't think you could have tested my website's functionality as it's currently locked for non administrators?

I visited instabus.co.uk and clicked to get a free quote.

Not sure who is doing your SEO but they have made a right pigs ear of things. A google speed score of 29/100 should be ringing all sorts of alarm bells. Wordpress is totally the wrong platform for this project.

I do understand what you are trying to do but the marketing costs for your website are going to be huge. You said:

Or how do you know that the company you are booking with isn't a broker that is pretending to be a local company...

This is exactly how you appear to anyone looking for a local hire.

I wanted to hire a mini bus in Axminster for a function. Google showed me a number of local companies one of which had exactly what I needed. I didn't even get as far as the organic listings - which is where you would be. Even if you get every operator in the UK listed, getting people to use your service is a massive mountain to climb.

Sorry for going off topic. Locally a great idea that has got legs. Nationally - not so sure. Also worth pointing out I was involved in a similar directory in Germany. They spent over €50,000 on marketing and still couldn't any traction.

 

[Instabus]

Your description of their intent isn't clear.

They use the same name - you haven't trademarked it but you still get some protection on the name.
If you used it first.

By using exactly the same name and doing exactly the same thing, their intent is clearly to disrupt what I'm doing. It's a blatantly malicious act. As I said before if they had started something called 'coaches direct' I would have absolutely no issue.

When you say I get some protection on the name, is that through copyright or something else?

 

[Instabus]

Good luck selling subscriptions at this time.

Of course it's not going to be easy but there's an opportunity here. Normally there would be little chance of speaking to the business owner at this time of year but the one thing everyone will have right now is time. And I'm not asking for much - £30 a month is all. It's about planning for post-virus.

 

[Instabus]

It's also worth pointing out that the .com isn't ever going to be a competitor. Their website is so poor nobody is ever going to know it exists.

What's this... some positivity from you? You're right but there's a chance they could be working on building the site in staging, or could be waiting to see my next move.

Easy. If they didn't have a local number I ignored them. It's not difficult to spot a legit company.

How expectedly naive of you. It's not your fault though but I would have expected someone with your UKBF credentials to see through that trick.
Is this a local company to Leeds who you would consider booking with? Nice, local number at the top: http://www.leedsminibushire.com/

I visited instabus.co.uk and clicked to get a free quote.

Not sure who is doing your SEO but they have made a right pigs ear of things. A google speed score of 29/100 should be ringing all sorts of alarm bells. Wordpress is totally the wrong platform for this project.

I do understand what you are trying to do but the marketing costs for your website are going to be huge. You said:

This is exactly how you appear to anyone looking for a local hire.

Yeah that's not the site in question. There's potential for me breaking forum rules by giving you the URL so add 'direct' before the suffix and you'll find it.
The one you found is what the directory ties into and has had no SEO time spent on it yet. It's live just for testing purposes. Wordpress will be absolutely sufficient for phase 1. Once I can afford to spend £15k on an upgrade, it will be spent.

I wanted to hire a mini bus in Axminster for a function. Google showed me a number of local companies one of which had exactly what I needed. I didn't even get as far as the organic listings - which is where you would be. Even if you get every operator in the UK listed, getting people to use your service is a massive mountain to climb.

I'm glad your function went smoothly. You got lucky. And with your naivety on local numbers, you really did get lucky. But so many people are less fortunate. As an operator, I've had to pick up the pieces of many messed up bookings or no-shows from dodgy companies. And I've had many more desperate last minute enquiries (no shows, wrong size bus, or rust bucket of a vehicle that wasn't what they booked turning up) that I was unable to assist with.

Sorry for going off topic. Locally a great idea that has got legs. Nationally - not so sure. Also worth pointing out I was involved in a similar directory in Germany. They spent over €50,000 on marketing and still couldn't any traction.

As I said above, you're confusing my two linked businesses. That's not your fault though as neither are ready and I hadn't explained the differences to you. The one you found is not a directory. It's something very unique.

 

[fisicx]

Is this a local company to Leeds who you would consider booking with? Nice, local number at the top: http://www.leedsminibushire.com/.

Nope not a hope in hell. Looks about as dodgy as it gets.

The sharks who registered instabus.com are never going to build a site. They only did what they did to get you to pay through the nose for the domain name. You can happily ignore them.

Apologies for the thread hijack. Hope your new venture goes well.

 

[Instabus]

Nope not a hope in hell. Looks about as dodgy as it gets.

The sharks who registered instabus.com are never going to build a site. They only did what they did to get you to pay through the nose for the domain name. You can happily ignore them.

Apologies for the thread hijack. Hope your new venture goes well.

Interested to know why you wouldn't book with that local company in Leeds? Why do they lok dodgy to you?
And just to be clear, I'm talking about instabusdirect with the .com suffix (not sure if I'm allowed to put URLs with my membership level?). I can't ignore them but I'm not at the stage of losing sleep over it. I just wanted to see if there was any course of action for me to stop them in their tracks. Before they do give me sleepless nights.

I hope you're right about them being just in it to try and get money for the domain. But I've had no contact from them for a ransom. I'm more concerned that it's someone who's got wind of what I'm doing (there are certain businesses that will be disrupted by this) and will put resources into it at some point soon.

No worries about the hijack. I enjoy a good old spar.

 

[fisicx]

Interested to know why you wouldn't book with that local company in Leeds? Why do they lok dodgy to you?

The footer of the homepage is stuffed full of links. And all they offer is a quote. Which tells me they will push the request out to tender. A google search for 'minibus hire leeds' returns a list of iffy websites. None of which I'd trust except possibly TJ Travel and Star Coaches.

Looking at your new site I can see what you are trying to do. The problem is it looks no different to any other broker site. You say you only list independent operators but so does checkatrade - and they are full of dodgy traders.

There is nothing you can do to stop them using the domain. Nor is there anything you can do to stop me registering instabusdirect.uk and adding a directory of minibus operators and a booking form. I could do this today and be ranking on Google tomorrow. It would mean I get there before you so when you do go live Google may prefer my directory over yours. The sooner you go live the better, even if the site isn't finished it will mean Google can start indexing and ranking you for local searches.

 

[Instabus]

The footer of the homepage is stuffed full of links. And all they offer is a quote. Which tells me they will push the request out to tender. A google search for 'minibus hire leeds' returns a list of iffy websites. None of which I'd trust except possibly TJ Travel and Star Coaches.

That's better, you're at least thinking about it now. But that's because you are wise and savvy. Most of the general public are not and that's why what I'm doing is needed in this industry.

Looking at your new site I can see what you are trying to do. The problem is it looks no different to any other broker site. You say you only list independent operators but so does checkatrade - and they are full of dodgy traders.

Every legitimate coach operator requires an operator's licence. My directory displays that licence on their listing. So no illegal operators and no brokers are able to advertise on my site. To obtain and retain an operator's licence, you need to demonstrate you are 'of good repute', compliant with the many regulations and financially secure enough to maintain your vehicles.

There is nothing you can do to stop them using the domain. Nor is there anything you can do to stop me registering instabusdirect.uk and adding a directory of minibus operators and a booking form. I could do this today and be ranking on Google tomorrow. It would mean I get there before you so when you do go live Google may prefer my directory over yours. The sooner you go live the better, even if the site isn't finished it will mean Google can start indexing and ranking you for local searches.

I agree that I can't stop them from using the domain but I believe there must be something I can do to stop them using the same trading name that I am, for the same purpose. If a name is not possible to trademark for the reasons given earlier (too descriptive) then there must be some limited protection against this. Surely?

Nor is there anything you can do to stop me registering instabusdirect.uk

Yes there is

 

[Mr D]

See a lawyer. And be prepared to spend money.

 

[fisicx]

Every legitimate coach operator requires an operator's licence. My directory displays that licence on their listing. So no illegal operators and no brokers are able to advertise on my site. To obtain and retain an operator's licence, you need to demonstrate you are 'of good repute', compliant with the many regulations and financially secure enough to maintain your vehicles.

You know that. Joe Public doesn’t. He will just regard your site the same as any other broker. You need to push all those other dodgy sites off page one of Google first, eliminate the competition. Even better, you need to rank the trusted companies in your directory top of the search results. That way you might generate some trust.

 

[Panoramix IP]

Thanks for the info.

I did see that Siemens have the same trademark. But from what I understand, your trademark can't contain a word that describes the services you provide. So there's nothing in that in relation to electronics (unless I'm missing something) but it does contain the word 'bus' which describes what I do. But you think it could still be 50/50 or are you touting for my business?

yes, I would put it at 50/50. I’ve seen more descriptive marks registered so personally I would give it a go. Just don’t mention bus in the specification and you have a chance.