Breach of contract threats around notice period and calling in sick

[Chuck Finley]

Need some advice about notice periods and second about breach of contract, and wondering if you guys can help me out.

I currently have a 3 month notice period at my current employer and I have been there for over 2 years now. I handed in my notice as I am not liking it here and have found something better. The company is basically a brown nose contest so I have decided to move on.
I am mid level and not management.
I've spoken to my manager about leaving and am handing in my notice very soon as I've found a new job. I said to her I really don't want to work here anymore and I wish you can shorten my 3 month notice. She immediately said nope and said if you do not work your full contract Im taking you to court!
Is this a criminal court she will take me to? Will I break a law by, for example, not turning up for 1 month at the end?

She also said that if you work from home or come in later than 9AM I will take you to court for breach of contract. (My contract is to work from the office and 9am to 5pm for normal work times)

Upon hearing this line of response, I said well what do you hope to get out of me as an employee! I am now highly unmotivated and not happy with being threatened with court. To which she said you need to turn up and work the whole 3 months and we can now even give you "shitty" (as she put it) work.

I am quite worried and this feels like it's going to be a very difficult 3 months.

Second part which I need clarity on is that she said, "calling in sick too much is a breach of contract and I will take this to court too if you do that" - she means that because I've been a total arse she KNOWS I'll be calling in sick now just because I don't want to turn up and am not actually sick.

Can she give me a bad reference and in turn my next employer may withdraw their offer, this is the part I'm actually worried about to be fair. I really like the new job and its in London too (as a personal goal I've always wanted to work in central London )

Thank you so much for taking the time to read.

 

[Newchodge]

If you breach your contract by failing to work your notice or failing to turn up to work when you can, or failing to work properly, it can be reflected in your reference.

Taking you to the civil court is a vague possibility but is most unlikely to happen.

 

[Mr D]

Second part which I need clarity on is that she said, "calling in sick too much is a breach of contract and I will take this to court too if you do that" - she means that because I've been a total arse she KNOWS I'll be calling in sick now just because I don't want to turn up and am not actually sick.

Can she give me a bad reference and in turn my next employer may withdraw their offer, this is the part I'm actually worried about to be fair. I really like the new job and its in London too (as a personal goal I've always wanted to work in central London )

Thank you so much for taking the time to read.

The manager may KNOW you are calling in sick and not actually sick. Unless you product a sick note - a doctor trumps a manager for knowledge of sickness.

Seriously, rather doubt the decision to take civil action against ex employees is down to your manager.

Bad references these days are not as common as they used to be. People can action against employers that try trashing someone in a reference. Usually HR doing references in my experiences, removing personal element.

 

[kulture]

Given what you say, and assuming the manager said it in an aggressive manner, then it is bullying. I would be tempted to raise a grievance for this. I would be tempted to say that the environment is now too stressful and for the sake of my mental health I have to leave immediately.

Or I would just walk out. Life is too short to be worried about insane managers like this.

 

[Chuck Finley]

Thanks for all the replies

I would just quit but then I'm being threatened with being taken to court if I don't work my entire contract period.
I am actually stressed about this and may see the doctor tomorrow about it. But I'm scared that if I don't go in they may give me a bad reference or take me to court.

 

[obscure]

The bottom line is that they can sue you for breach of contract (if you don't work your notice) but all they can sue for is actual damages. So, if they actually hire a temp and have to pay them extra/or pay someone overtime to cover your shifts , then they can recover that amount. If they don't cover your shifts/don't spend extra then they can't actually claim anything. As others have said it is very unlikely that they would go ahead and sue when they are unlikely to recover anything meaningful - but at the same time suing for spite isn't unheard of.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Keep written notes on everything that has happened, when you had discussions with the manager, etc., with dates (and times if possible). This can act as "evidence" if anything did happen.

However, as others have said, taking legal action against you is very unlikely, as it will cost them significant legal costs (and tie up their time preparing the case). Then, even if the court was to decide in the company's favour, as you are without a job, the court would probably set a very small amount for you to pay back each week, so again, it would be more trouble than it's worth.

To me, from the way she is reacting, it sounds more like your leaving early will upset the business, but rather than being adult and discussing it with you, she is trying to frighten you into staying.

I have found the following with a UK legal firm, where there is a question about "What if I wish to leave without giving notice, or I want to give less than my full contractual notice?" which is about halfway down the article:

https://www.landaulaw.co.uk/notice/

However, I would suggest you get legal advice just to make sure, before you do anything drastic.

 

[Chuck Finley]

Thanks for that.
I am at work today as I couldnt get an appointment with the GP.
I know it sounds silly and you guys will probably laugh but this is very stressful and I couldn't sleep for the past 3 days since I heard from my manager that "if you don't come in then I will take this to court for breach of contract"

I understand your opinions that its unlikely to happen but part of me thinks that they may do so out of spite!
If I am off sick, and they hire a temp worker, can they take me to court to recover the costs?

I don't usually do this, 14 years of employment but I have never had any issue like this. I think they believe that if I leave then it will leave a potential for drastic effects on the business. I dont mean to sound pretentious but this is probably because I take most of the workload in the team.

I have a new job lined up after my 3 month notice is over but I don't want to do anything that will cause my current place to give me a very bad reference. But I guess they will have to provide evidence for everything they state, right?
I ask this because I have the feeling, and as you guys must have sensed, that they do not like me right now and want to scare me with court and bad references.

 

[antropy]

Thanks for that.
I am at work today as I couldnt get an appointment with the GP.
I know it sounds silly and you guys will probably laugh but this is very stressful and I couldn't sleep for the past 3 days since I heard from my manager that "if you don't come in then I will take this to court for breach of contract"

I understand your opinions that its unlikely to happen but part of me thinks that they may do so out of spite!
If I am off sick, and they hire a temp worker, can they take me to court to recover the costs?

I don't usually do this, 14 years of employment but I have never had any issue like this. I think they believe that if I leave then it will leave a potential for drastic effects on the business. I dont mean to sound pretentious but this is probably because I take most of the workload in the team.

I have a new job lined up after my 3 month notice is over but I don't want to do anything that will cause my current place to give me a very bad reference. But I guess they will have to provide evidence for everything they state, right?
I ask this because I have the feeling, and as you guys must have sensed, that they do not like me right now and want to scare me with court and bad references.

Although it will be tough and it will be a very very hard 3 months. Just getting your head down and working to your contract will mean they have no right to moan. If the manager does then as previously stated keep a record and raise it to higher management. Alex

 

[fisicx]

I said to her I really don't want to work here anymore and I wish you can shorten my 3 month notice.

To which she said you need to turn up and work the whole 3 months and we can now even give you "shitty" (as she put it) work.

Duh!

You gave in your notice, told her you don't want to work there and now wonder why you are getting the dross jobs?

 

[Chuck Finley]

Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm not wondering why I am getting the "dross" jobs. Your employees must be really happy! If they hand in their notice after working hard for you for over multiple years, and making you a lot of money, you would throw them in the gutter as soon as they say I want to move on?

 

[Mr D]

Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm not wondering why I am getting the "dross" jobs. Your employees must be really happy! If they hand in their notice after working hard for you for over multiple years, and making you a lot of money, you would throw them in the gutter as soon as they say I want to move on?

Not the only employer who would do that.

I resigned from one job I had been in for 6 years in order to finish a degree, was sacked 3 weeks into my month notice period then had my final month salary withheld simply because the manager was vindictive. I'd saved the organisation shutting 3 times and had been 90% of their annual turnover by my efforts.

A year later with that manager gone my old job was advertised again (my replacement had been very bad idea) and I got begged to come back.

 

[fisicx]

you would throw them in the gutter as soon as they say I want to move on?

No, it was you saying "I really don't want to work here anymore". That's the bit I'd get all narked about.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I have a new job lined up after my 3 month notice is over but I don't want to do anything that will cause my current place to give me a very bad reference. But I guess they will have to provide evidence for everything they state, right?

If you have a new job lined up, then speak to them and explain what has been happening in your current position. This should help to negate any negative reference they may receive, as they will then have BOTH sides of the story - and even if they do get a bad reference, it doesn't mean they won't hire you. To give an example...

I had a member of staff some years ago who decided to leave and the reason was that she had back trouble and because the job she was doing (call answering and typing) was mostly sitting down, she said it was making her back worse (despite my offering to get her a better, more ergonomic chair etc., she wasn't interested). She had even put on social media that her health was being affected by the nature of the work.

A couple of months later I was therefore stunned when I received a reference request from a company she had applied to work for, and again the role she would be doing would be mostly sitting down... When we answered the question about why she had left, we mentioned about her back problems and how she had stated the job she did was affecting her health. However, they still decided to hire her.

Apparently, she then left them after six months, citing exactly the same reasons of back ache and injury due to the job...

 

[Chuck Finley]

No, it was you saying "I really don't want to work here anymore". That's the bit I'd get all narked about.

I understand what you're saying but I believe you missed my point about people wanting to move on and not wanting to work somewhere anymore. I wouldn't take it personally if an employee said they really don't want to work here anymore. In fact I would question why thats the case, if you want your business to continue operating!
Say someone has worked there for 10 years then they say nope don't wanna work here anymore. The incorrect approach is threatening them with shitty work and on top of that threatening them with court. That's just my opinion.

I get your viewpoint that if someone wants to leave then give them the crap work and treat them like shit after they've worked their arse off for years for you. There's been times where I've worked for 80 hours a week with no additional compensation. I could have worked my contract hours too!

You're totally within your rights to then assign me boring work but at the same time its a little harsh and you won't find the best glassdoor reviews etc

 

[Chuck Finley]

If you have a new job lined up, then speak to them and explain what has been happening in your current position. This should help to negate any negative reference they may receive, as they will then have BOTH sides of the story - and even if they do get a bad reference, it doesn't mean they won't hire you. To give an example...

I had a member of staff some years ago who decided to leave and the reason was that she had back trouble and because the job she was doing (call answering and typing) was mostly sitting down, she said it was making her back worse (despite my offering to get her a better, more ergonomic chair etc., she wasn't interested). She had even put on social media that her health was being affected by the nature of the work.

A couple of months later I was therefore stunned when I received a reference request from a company she had applied to work for, and again the role she would be doing would be mostly sitting down... When we answered the question about why she had left, we mentioned about her back problems and how she had stated the job she did was affecting her health. However, they still decided to hire her.

Apparently, she then left them after six months, citing exactly the same reasons of back ache and injury due to the job...

You seem like a very reasonable boss. I think bad references are a little harsh when they are just out of spite that an employee wants to leave and doesn't want to work there anymore. Which is what some bosses will do.

And hence why I'm worried about that bad reference. But I think your advice on keeping my new employer in the loop is spot on.

I guess they can mention, for example, that I called in sick on certain days in my notice period but can't go beyond mentioning facts with things like he said she said. This also reminds me to keep everything written down. I, and them too, do not have any written evidence at all.

There are a few emails around when I found that other employees were I had a rant about other employees being favoured. I don't think favouritism is legal in a work place when it leads to inconsistent practices.

 

[Ashley_Price]

This also reminds me to keep everything written down. I, and them too, do not have any written evidence at all.

Keeping notes of any negative events or activity is a must. While it may not be as valid as someone else witnessing an incident for example, it can help immensely if it does go to any sort of legal proceedings.

I am sure your manager (if she is any good at her job) has been making her own notes on the different instances. You don't want to suddenly be faced with her stack of written notes and you have nothing.

 

[fisicx]

I understand what you're saying but I believe you missed my point about people wanting to move on and not wanting to work somewhere anymore.

But if you had said: "I've really enjoyed working here for the last two years but I've got an opportunity to try something different in a role that offers me promotion." then her attitude may have been different.

I do understand your position and your worries about legal action but there isn't much you can do except work the three months less your accrued holiday

 

[Mark Laurie]

Why not talk to your new employer and explain what is happening and see if you can start earlier?

 

[Chuck Finley]

Why not talk to your new employer and explain what is happening and see if you can start earlier?

They don't have a problem with me starting earlier but the crux here is a contractual 3 month notice period. I just wanted to know more here after hearing breach of contract court threats.

 

[Chuck Finley]

But if you had said: "I've really enjoyed working here for the last two years but I've got an opportunity to try something different in a role that offers me promotion." then her attitude may have been different.

I do understand your position and your worries about legal action but there isn't much you can do except work the three months less your accrued holiday

I can be conveniently sick more often and late with car trouble and longer lunch and generally taking the biscuit!
I think employers fail to understand that disgruntled employees can cause them more trouble than its worth.

I'm obviously not going to do the above because im not a bad person. But my options are not exhausted either. I'll "work" my 3 month notice period. Today I received a request to carry out a task, I know how to do it but I've replied to my manager to state that sorry I don't know how to do this and require further training.

I have a doctors appointment tomorrow to discuss the fact that I can't sleep over this.

I understand that you are saying the operative word in, "I really don't want to work here anymore", is the word 'really' - but then handing me shitty work instead of just letting me go is clearly just being done in spite. Hence my position on this.

If they haven't got my actual day job work then why not just let me go. Making me do rubbish work for 3 months with no benefit to the business is just weird

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Does the company have a HR department or someone above the manager who you can write a complaint to about the attitude of the manager, if so I would just write down the facts of what was said and the attitude you believe it was said in, and state that you feel under a lot of pressure from these statements which is unfair after the good work you have done over the last xxx years.. This pressure from the manager is having a serious effect on your health and you would like clarification that the manager is working within the companies employment conditions

As you have been there over two years the letter may well start alarm bells ringing about tribunals and so forth and come to a reasonable compromise. you have nothing really to worry going above the managers head with a complaint and you also have a paper trail which may be useful in the future

 

[STDFR33]

No, it was you saying "I really don't want to work here anymore". That's the bit I'd get all narked about.

Not really mature though, is it? It’s just petty.

How about asking the employee why they feel that way? If you don’t know what is causing existing employees to leave, how do you expect to recruit good employees that will stay?

 

[Mr D]

Not really mature though, is it? It’s just petty.

How about asking the employee why they feel that way? If you don’t know what is causing existing employees to leave, how do you expect to recruit good employees that will stay?

Some places do an exit interview on the last day.

Not looking for honesty, just looking for something to put in stats.

 

[paulears]

You said in the first post they were a brown nose company and you wanted to leave and had a new job lined up.

You want to leave early. They know you want to go, and are unlikely to put 100% into the job, you get cross because you'll get the rotten jobs? All of this makes perfect sense. You really cannot tell a firm you've found a better job and expect the same treatment while on notice. 3 months sounds unreasonable to me for notice on a non-senior role. If your new job relies on references, suck it up. If your new job is fixed and sorted and doesn't need them, give them a months notice and leave. You'll end up arguing about the pay. It wouldn't be worth their time taking you to court - and you would no doubt argue the 3 months was unreasonable - which it might be, depending on what the job is?

 

[Ancient]

What does your contract say about the notice period? Mine has a clause about leaving early so I know how much it would cost me.

 

[Mr D]

What does your contract say about the notice period? Mine has a clause about leaving early so I know how much it would cost me.

Even having a clause doesn't mean a company will always force keeping it or take court action if not kept.

 

[Chuck Finley]

I mean what exactly can they say in my reference without actual backing evidence...
If I lose the next job because of a bad reference then I will take it to court myself.

I am going to see a doctor tomorrow and will know more as I've never suffered from stress before.

My notice period is 3 months, thats all it says in the contract.

 

[Ancient]

Even having a clause doesn't mean a company will always force keeping it or take court action if not kept.

That's not what I meant. My contract has a clause stating what the company will do if I leave before the end of my notice period. It's irrelevant now we know Chuck's contract has no such clause.

I'd agree with keeping your new employer fully informed all along the way. What you don't want them to hear first is that you're off with stress if they don't understand the situation.

 

[Awinner2]

Work out your notice as per your contract. Do no more than your contract says and do not do any extra hours, take all breaks as required by law and move on. Your new employer has already offered you the job and as advised by others here, keep them in the loop and take notes of any adverse actions from your existing management,