Company trying to charge me for apprenticeship training

[Apprenticeship]

I have just finished an apprenticeship with my current company. I have expressed my desire to leave the company and they have informed me that they will charge me 100% of the cost for the training I have recieved. (this is stated in my handbook)

However I understand that apprenticeships are largely government funded. I also understand that it is illegal to charge an employee a fee for training which the company themselves did not actually pay for. Does this mean that they can only charge me the amount they have put in? What is this likely to be?

p.s. ive been paid minimum wage for the past 2 years and I wonder if them charging me to leave would effectively mean that I would have therefore been paid less then minimum wage over the course of those two years?

Thank you.

 

[fisicx]

...they have informed me that they will charge me 100% of the cost for the training I have recieved. (this is stated in my handbook).

If it's in the handbook then you will have to pay. Many apprenticeships require you to stay with the company for a period of time after the training is completed.

The funding source is irrelevant. All that matters is the content of contract you signed.

 

[Apprenticeship]

When I say this is stated in my handbook its not entirely stated like that. Its just a broad statement saying "staff they have completed training will have to pay 100% of the training back"

It doesn't actually have a section on apprenticeships

 

[Mr D]

It isn't uncommon for companies who have invested in staff to require repayment if they leave within a certain time of the training.
Does your handbook or contract state anything about what timescale? Like leaving within 12 months?

Does your apprenticeship agreement say anything about leaving?

 

[Apprenticeship]

Yes it has a scale that is:
100% of training costs to repay if leave within 6 months
75% if 6-12 months
50% if one year
no cost if two year.

and how do you mean apprenticeship agreement?

 

[Mr D]

This.
https://www.gov.uk/take-on-an-apprentice/apprenticeship-agreement

 

[fisicx]

Yes it has a scale that is:
100% of training costs to repay if leave within 6 months
75% if 6-12 months
50% if one year
no cost if two year.

There you go. If you want to leave now you have to pay.

and how do you mean apprenticeship agreement?

The document you signed when you started your apprenticeship.

 

[Newchodge]

I don't believe that your employer may require repayments that would take your income below the relevant minimum wage. Talk to ACAS.

 

[Mr D]

I don't believe that your employer may require repayments that would take your income below the relevant minimum wage. Talk to ACAS.

If paying minimum wage and taking ANY deduction they'd take the wage below.
Fine for income tax, student loans or NI but not OK for anything else?

 

[Newchodge]

T

If paying minimum wage and taking ANY deduction they'd take the wage below.
Fine for income tax, student loans or NI but not OK for anything else?

That's right. Those are statutory deductions which must be made. Anything else is dodgy. Compulsory contribution to uniform cost? No. Compulsory contribution to the shareholders' appreciation fund? No. Compulsory contribution to the cost of training? No.

 

[Mr D]

T

That's right. Those are statutory deductions which must be made. Anything else is dodgy. Compulsory contribution to uniform cost? No. Compulsory contribution to the shareholders' appreciation fund? No. Compulsory contribution to the cost of training? No.

So does an employer then chase the person through the courts to get their money?

 

[Newchodge]

So does an employer then chase the person through the courts to get their money?

Which part did you not understand. An employer may not charge an employee for training if that would take the employee's wage below minimum wage. That doesn't mean they can't just deduct it from wages. It means they can't have the money. It is not the employer's money. They have no legal right to recover it. And deducting it from wages owed would leave the employer open to a criminal charge.

 

[Mr D]

Which part did you not understand. An employer may not charge an employee for training if that would take the employee's wage below minimum wage. That doesn't mean they can't just deduct it from wages. It means they can't have the money. It is not the employer's money. They have no legal right to recover it.

So if OP was paid minimum then any contract is irrelevant as far as training goes?
Glad we have clarified this.

 

[Newchodge]

So if OP was paid minimum then any contract is irrelevant as far as training goes?

If anyone is paid minimum wage, any contract that purports to reduce that wage below the minimum for whatever reason, unless it is specified in the relevant legislation, is void.

 

[STDFR33]

@Newchodge how does this fit in with HMRC v Lorne Stewart PLC?

 

[Newchodge]

Lorne Stewart was about a course that the employee asked to attend, and was therefore a voluntary course of action by the employee. Attending apprenticeship training is a requirement of holding an apprenticeship, something over which the employee had no control or choice. It is, therefore more akin to requiring a minimum wage employee to pay for the cost of uniform they were required to wear for work.

 

[STDFR33]

Lorne Stewart was about a course that the employee asked to attend, and was therefore a voluntary course of action by the employee. Attending apprenticeship training is a requirement of holding an apprenticeship, something over which the employee had no control or choice. It is, therefore more akin to requiring a minimum wage employee to pay for the cost of uniform they were required to wear for work.

Thank you.

Will have another read of the case tomorrow (Not that I doubt you). I remembered the case but can’t recall the finer details. Always worth another read!

 

[Scott@KarmaContent]

A quick Google suggests they cannot ask for money back (if it's a government funded apprenticeship).

Look at 52.4

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/588786/EMPLOYER_RULES_Final_010217.pdf

Look at 54.4.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/588780/PROVIDER_RULES_-_FINAL_010217.pdf

 

[Mr D]

Lorne Stewart was about a course that the employee asked to attend, and was therefore a voluntary course of action by the employee. Attending apprenticeship training is a requirement of holding an apprenticeship, something over which the employee had no control or choice. It is, therefore more akin to requiring a minimum wage employee to pay for the cost of uniform they were required to wear for work.

No control except applying and agreeing about apprenticeships.
My nephew applied for one and got it. Not minimum wage.

 

[Apprenticeship]

Thank you guys for the response. I called the national apprenticeship help desk and they confirmed that it is illegal for a company to try and claim back any money from apprentices as that would be breaching the contract the company makes with the government in order to receive the funding.



That's a big relief!