Client doesn't understand SEO

[Luke Boobyer]

Hi I would love some advice on a small problem I am having with one of my clients.

After launching a new website for a client of mine I provided a lot of info and resources on how they could learn the basics of SEO and what elements of the site are important. Titles, meta descriptions and content for example. They have full access to all these elements and I have provided info on how they can manage it. I explained why it is important and how search engines rank websites.

The website was completely new as the business didn't have an online presence before, it was built to be search engine friendly and optimised for general keywords for their industry.

All standard stuff for a new website. However every few months this client keeps contacting me angrily saying how they are not ranking on the first few pages for a competitive keyword they are after.

They have invested no time or money into SEO and no one works on it for them. So the site is the same as it was when launched. No content has been changed to target certain keywords, no new content or back links generated.

Every time they contact me about this I explain what SEO is, how it works, links to great resources for them to read and I provide strategies for them on ways they can easily improve the SEO of the site with just a few hours each week.

I have also explained if they are serious about ranking then they might want to consider either spending time themselves using the resources I have provided, or invest money into an SEO package from highly recommended companies I have suggested.

I have to keep repeating myself as I get the same replies back each time.

It always follows the same pattern:

1. They get in touch with an angry email saying they are not ranking for certain keywords.

2. I take a look over the site and see no work has been done to improve the SEO. I send a reply saying those keywords are highly competitive, you might be better trying to rank for more niche keywords such as x, y and z. There is less competition so they would require less work to rank highly.

I outline the areas they could improve, titles, descriptions, content and new pages. All easily added or updated from the CMS. I tell them exactly what they should change or add and provide resources for guides on how to do this.

I then provide a strategy for them to follow so they can actively improve their SEO on a consistent basis.

3. A few months down the line it repeats itself, I get pretty much the same email from the client saying they are not ranking for the same competitive keywords.

I have now spent several hours trying to help them offering free advice, guidance, SEO reviews and strategies. I am exasperated and can't keep going round in circles like this. I want all my clients to succeed and often to my detriment invest a lot of time helping them for free. But I just don't know what to do any more and would love some advice on how I should handle this.

 

[fisicx]

They don't want to do it themselves, they want someone (you) to do it for them.

You can explain what needs doing again and again but they probably don't even read you advice. So offer to do the work for them or find someone who can do the work for them.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Yes I have offered to do it for them a number of times before. But I got no real reply to it and they simply asked why the site wasn't ranking again and that they didn't want to pay any money for that as they have already paid for a website.

I've offered my services and other companies who might be good. I explained what would be involved, the likely costs and then offered alternatives if they didn't want to invest money into hiring a professional. The alternatives were to invest a few hours each evening reading the resources I have provided and to learn some of the basics behind it, then they could invest a few hours each week into some of the fundamentals for their SEO.

If they didn't want to spend time or money then the site is unlikely to make any progress moving up search engines as the competitors, who had been in the market for several years likely invest into their SEO to get on the first pages of the competitive keywords.

 

[fisicx]

In which case tell them you will no longer be replying to their emails as they are not heeding your advice and are not willing to invest the time and money needed.

After this do not respond to anything they send you unless they offer to pay.

 

[NickGrogan]

What did you sell them initially?

Obviously its a website, but you talk about launching the site. What did you offer them, what do they think you offered and what have you done?

 

[Luke Boobyer]

I have thought about that but it seems so cold. I want to help all my clients succeed online but this may be one of those times I just have to accept you can't help everyone.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

What did you sell them initially?

Obviously its a website, but you talk about launching the site. What did you offer them, what do they think you offered and what have you done?

I sold them a website build and delivered on all the areas outlined in the proposal. In terms of SEO, this included making sure the website is SEO friendly and can be easily updated to allow for full control of onsite SEO elements. Other than hosting it was clear no additional services such as maintenance, SEO, marketing etc where to be included

Post launch I sent over full details on how they should set aside a few hours to optimise the SEO meta descriptions, titles and content depending on what they wanted to rank for. They have about 10 pages in total. It was a small build with a smaller budget discounted by about 30% as they didn't have the budget for everything originally proposed.

They also sprung the need for a custom integration with an API that has no documentation and rubbish support on me a couple of days before launch. They had no budget to complete this additional work (about 20 hours) well outside the scope of the original agreement and I completed the work free of charge in my spare time in the evenings.

I think it might be a lesson learned really, you can go above and beyond for some people but they will never appreciate what you have done for them. It's better to drop some clients than to do everything you can to help them succeed.

 

[UKcentric]

Ouch. Sounds like you have gone way above and beyond and provided an amazing service level which anybody else would be massively grateful for. You have hooked the client from hell but it's not your fault. Good luck

 

[Newchodge]

I think you are expecting too much. Very few business people have the faintest idea what SEO is or how it works or even understand the terms used by the professionals. I am sure you gave them very comprehensive advice on how to maintain their site, but if you had done the same for me and used terms like 'meta descriptions' I would have stopped reading and just screamed for help if I didn't get what I had hoped for.

I suggest that you reply to this client by stating that you have completely fulfilled your contractual obligations and in addition have done xyz above and beyond the contractual agreement. In view of which you can offer nothing further except abc for which you will charge £xx per hour. Alternatively they may like to contact Bloggs and Co who may be able to help them further.

Good luck

 

[Xtm_Mike]

Your problem is offering basic SEO services and advice. You're either doing SEO or you're not.

If you are, then factor in costs, update contracts, offer after build SEO packages. I've been in your situation with clients expecting their new website to be on page one and bringing in business by day two.

For the less tech savvy there is just no explaining it... they will never grasp it from snippets of advice. I'm very capable of building compliant, SEO friendly websites, but thats where it ends... I'm not an SEO expert so I wont be offering any advice.

I now always state that I will build websites with SEO in mind, but I don't offer it as a service. Mainly because I don't enjoy it, I don't enjoy explaining it, it's time consuming and takes me off tasks I enjoy doing and that make me money.

If you are willing to offer SEO services send them some quotes, if they don't bite then cut them loose in the nicest way possible.

 

[Edith@TerraNetwork]

Same here. I used to do SEO as part of site build, but now don't even mention it as I don't want any "why am I not number one on google?" conversations. Going forward I'd either include SEO as cost in quote or not at all. Doing "a little bit" will blur the boundaries too much.

For the client you have, I'd follow the advice in this thread. Be polite, but succinct and state that you've fulfilled your contract and express your hope that they find a suitable SEO contractor.

Personally, I find short polite emails work best, two paragraphs maximum, that gets the point across that you're finishing the conversation.

 

[Scott Davies]

In which case tell them you will no longer be replying to their emails as they are not heeding your advice and are not willing to invest the time and money needed.

After this do not respond to anything they send you unless they offer to pay.

Yeah, don't take this guys advice. "Hey, person who can do me referrals, who can come back for more business etc - don't email me again!" - that's just bad advice right there.

Your problem is offering basic SEO services and advice. You're either doing SEO or you're not.

If you are, then factor in costs, update contracts, offer after build SEO packages. I've been in your situation with clients expecting their new website to be on page one and bringing in business by day two.

For the less tech savvy there is just no explaining it... they will never grasp it from snippets of advice. I'm very capable of building compliant, SEO friendly websites, but thats where it ends... I'm not an SEO expert so I wont be offering any advice.

I now always state that I will build websites with SEO in mind, but I don't offer it as a service. Mainly because I don't enjoy it, I don't enjoy explaining it, it's time consuming and takes me off tasks I enjoy doing and that make me money.

If you are willing to offer SEO services send them some quotes, if they don't bite then cut them loose in the nicest way possible.

This is a great explanation of what has happened here. You didn't offer SEO as a full service/part of the package (and increased your price accordingly) but you also didn't say "I don't do SEO. I do web design.", you kind of dipped your toe into the SEO pool. Definitely a lesson learned there (and not just for you!)

Have you called this client and spoken on the telephone, rather than emailing?

-Scott

 

[fisicx]

Yeah, don't take this guys advice. "Hey, person who can do me referrals, who can come back for more business etc - don't email me again!" - that's just bad advice right there.

I've been doing this for nearly 30 years and I can assure you that clients like these will never give you a referral or come back for more business.

What they will do is keep taking and never give.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

I think you are expecting too much. Very few business people have the faintest idea what SEO is or how it works or even understand the terms used by the professionals. I am sure you gave them very comprehensive advice on how to maintain their site, but if you had done the same for me and used terms like 'meta descriptions' I would have stopped reading and just screamed for help if I didn't get what I had hoped for.

I suggest that you reply to this client by stating that you have completely fulfilled your contractual obligations and in addition have done xyz above and beyond the contractual agreement. In view of which you can offer nothing further except abc for which you will charge £xx per hour. Alternatively they may like to contact Bloggs and Co who may be able to help them further.

Good luck

Yes I made sure to explain it completely in layman's terms. I outline exactly what a title is and a meta description etc, how they work and what are good examples. I make sure to spell it out so even a child would be able to understand. I know some clients aren't computer literate so need these things spelled out for them. I use different language depending on the clients experience with online stuff after I have gotten to know them.

Have you got any ideas on how you'd explain something like a meta description without using the term once? The problem then is some clients would do their own reading and ask if a meta description is the same as what I was describing and I feel would lead to greater confusion.

That's the problem really, they are screaming for help but no help can be given if they aren't willing to pay someone to do it all for them and they aren't willing to learn even the most basic SEO terms themselves.

I think that's probably a good suggestion, I think this client is beyond helping really so I just need to say I can't provide anymore free guidance and professional advice. If they have specific questions I will be happy to answer but I won't be repeating myself anymore.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Your problem is offering basic SEO services and advice. You're either doing SEO or you're not.

If you are, then factor in costs, update contracts, offer after build SEO packages. I've been in your situation with clients expecting their new website to be on page one and bringing in business by day two.

For the less tech savvy there is just no explaining it... they will never grasp it from snippets of advice. I'm very capable of building compliant, SEO friendly websites, but thats where it ends... I'm not an SEO expert so I wont be offering any advice.

I now always state that I will build websites with SEO in mind, but I don't offer it as a service. Mainly because I don't enjoy it, I don't enjoy explaining it, it's time consuming and takes me off tasks I enjoy doing and that make me money.

If you are willing to offer SEO services send them some quotes, if they don't bite then cut them loose in the nicest way possible.

I made it very clear in my proposal and contract that I was not offering active SEO services. It mentions that the site will be built so that the client has full control over elements that can help them rank higher in search engines. I offer full SEO services and a link is provided to that service page on my website.

It's been more than snippets of advice, I have gone to the trouble of writing 2-3 thousand words on the matter for them with advice, guidance and complete step by step strategies on exactly what they can do themselves easily with almost no knowledge of SEO.

But you are right that some people will never grasp it. I couldn't have done any more to make it easier to understand.

Yes I have mentioned a few times that I do offer it as a full service or I can recommend other companies that are also good, this just goes ignored though. It's as if they are reading what they want and ignoring the rest of the email.

 

[Scott Davies]

I've been doing this for nearly 30 years and I can assure you that clients like these will never give you a referral or come back for more business.

What they will do is keep taking and never give.

At some stage over those 30 years you seem to have decided all clients are a pain in the ass, and it shows.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Same here. I used to do SEO as part of site build, but now don't even mention it as I don't want any "why am I not number one on google?" conversations. Going forward I'd either include SEO as cost in quote or not at all. Doing "a little bit" will blur the boundaries too much.

For the client you have, I'd follow the advice in this thread. Be polite, but succinct and state that you've fulfilled your contract and express your hope that they find a suitable SEO contractor.

Personally, I find short polite emails work best, two paragraphs maximum, that gets the point across that you're finishing the conversation.

Thanks yes I think that is what I will need to do, simply state I have done all I can to help. Here are the names of companies that can help you going forward etc.

 

[fisicx]

Not quite what point you are trying to make @Scott Davies I have a great portfolio of clients many of whom are members on UKBF. What I don't do is waste time on those who don't listen and want me to do everything for free. You will soon find who they are, the ones who constantly badger you for changes but aren't willing to pay for the service.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

This is a great explanation of what has happened here. You didn't offer SEO as a full service/part of the package (and increased your price accordingly) but you also didn't say "I don't do SEO. I do web design.", you kind of dipped your toe into the SEO pool. Definitely a lesson learned there (and not just for you!)

Have you called this client and spoken on the telephone, rather than emailing?

-Scott

I offered it as a service but there was no budget so the client went for just the website build.

Yes we have spoken on the phone a number of times and at great length.

 

[Xtm_Mike]

I've been doing this for nearly 30 years and I can assure you that clients like these will never give you a referral or come back for more business.

What they will do is keep taking and never give.

But still, this sort of aggressive stance is not helping anyone. Not replying to emails from a client who has paid you money is not the way to go. If you want to cut ties with a client it should be done in the nicest way possible.. They may not generate business for you but they can certainly bad mouth your business online and be very damaging.

I agree some clients will take and take but stay professional and handle it like a pro.

Being a freelance developer, a big part of running a business is dealing with clients, some are difficult. Thats life... and actually, it too bold of a statement to make. I've had difficult clients who take and take, but i've also received referral business off some of them.

Yes I made sure to explain it completely in layman's terms. I outline exactly what a title is and a meta description etc, how they work and what are good examples. I make sure to spell it out so even a child would be able to understand. I know some clients aren't computer literate so need these things spelled out for them. I use different language depending on the clients experience with online stuff after I have gotten to know them.

Have you got any ideas on how you'd explain something like a meta description without using the term once? The problem then is some clients would do their own reading and ask if a meta description is the same as what I was describing and I feel would lead to greater confusion.

That's the problem really, they are screaming for help but no help can be given if they aren't willing to pay someone to do it all for them and they aren't willing to learn even the most basic SEO terms themselves.

I think that's probably a good suggestion, I think this client is beyond helping really so I just need to say I can't provide anymore free guidance and professional advice. If they have specific questions I will be happy to answer but I won't be repeating myself anymore.

Moving forward just stop explaining it. If you're not offering SEO services it's best to stay clear. Maybe you could affiliate with an SEO guy and receive a cut from referrals?Always explain SEO is not your bag but you can pass over to your SEO guy who will be able to assess your needs and send a quote.

If you insist on helping with the basics, draw up simple document with images and big text in lamens terms that explain how they can change tags or whatever.. offer that as a final hand over with SEO company recommendations and leave it at that... but believe me, as soon as you start offering SEO advice, they will always come back to you when it doesn't perform.

 

[fisicx]

Why is it aggressive? The work had been paid for and follow up emails sent explaining what needed to be done. This client isn't going to stop complaining so the best thing to do is just tell them you won't be corresponding anymore especially as they aren't going to pay for the SEO services or ever return for a website upgrade.

 

[Xtm_Mike]

I made it very clear in my proposal and contract that I was not offering active SEO services. It mentions that the site will be built so that the client has full control over elements that can help them rank higher in search engines. I offer full SEO services and a link is provided to that service page on my website.

It's been more than snippets of advice, I have gone to the trouble of writing 2-3 thousand words on the matter for them with advice, guidance and complete step by step strategies on exactly what they can do themselves easily with almost no knowledge of SEO.

But you are right that some people will never grasp it. I couldn't have done any more to make it easier to understand.

Yes I have mentioned a few times that I do offer it as a full service or I can recommend other companies that are also good, this just goes ignored though. It's as if they are reading what they want and ignoring the rest of the email.

Ah well in that case you have done all you can.. It sort of makes my last reply to you redundant also, so please ignore.

Just continue to explain you have done all you can for them. It's clear you have gone above and beyond.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Moving forward just stop explaining it. If you're not offering SEO services it's best to stay clear. Maybe you could affiliate with an SEO guy and receive a cut from referrals?Always explain SEO is not your bag but you can pass over to your SEO guy who will be able to assess your needs and send a quote.

If you insist on helping with the basics, draw up simple document with images and big text in lamens terms that explain how they can change tags or whatever.. offer that as a final hand over with SEO company recommendations and leave it at that... but believe me, as soon as you start offering SEO advice, they will always come back to you when it doesn't perform.

Yes I think that is a good idea, I have just rewritten my contract to make it explicitly clear that my involvement with your SEO ends after site launch and they should contract the services of an SEO specialise if they want to use SEO in their online marketing strategy.

I thought it was clear before but there can be no questions what so ever now. If this situation occurs again I will simply refer them to that part of the contract (which they probably didn't read to begin with)

That's pretty much exactly what I did, I spent hours building guides for them so even a child could follow it. Click here, then here etc.

 

[Scott Davies]

I offered it as a service but there was no budget so the client went for just the website build.

Yes we have spoken on the phone a number of times and at great length.

Perhaps you're now at the stage where you need to say "I can do your SEO, it is x amount (or x per hour, billable monthly) but unfortunately I can't do any more work on the SEO project for you free of charge. I appreciate your business and I'm sorry that you're having difficulty with SEO, but it's important that you realise SEO isn't a short fix, it's an ongoing process that requires ongoing attention, which I CAN offer as a service, but that service costs £x.xx"

I see you've amended your contract which is a great idea to avoid this issue again in the future as far as possible.

 

[Scott Davies]

Why is it aggressive? The work had been paid for and follow up emails sent explaining what needed to be done. This client isn't going to stop complaining so the best thing to do is just tell them you won't be corresponding anymore especially as they aren't going to pay for the SEO services or ever return for a website upgrade.

I can name one UKBF member that won't ever be doing business with you

 

[NickGrogan]

After launching a new website for a client of mine

Luke, that one sentence is the basis of all your problems, you know what you mean, but it's not the same meaning in your clients mind.

If you tell a layman you're going to make and launch a website, that means you're going to design it, make it work online and when they go to google and type in whatever keywords they want, it will be number one. It's what happens in TV shows and it's what they expect.

Adding whatever to your terms isn't going to help, because no-one reads them until it's too late, you need to change your language.

Are you going to design a website - which is what you seem to be offering or launch a website, which therefore includes SEO which is what the client thinks you're offering.

In your last post you've used launch again, and it's wrong again.

 

[Tin]

Client expectations - Nick has nailed the problem. What the client expects from you is different from what you expect from the job you delivered. This sentence on your online-marketing page won't be helping the clients expectations "Increase your online visibility and put your brand in front of the right audience with my SEO service."

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Perhaps you're now at the stage where you need to say "I can do your SEO, it is x amount (or x per hour, billable monthly) but unfortunately I can't do any more work on the SEO project for you free of charge. I appreciate your business and I'm sorry that you're having difficulty with SEO, but it's important that you realise SEO isn't a short fix, it's an ongoing process that requires ongoing attention, which I CAN offer as a service, but that service costs £x.xx"

I see you've amended your contract which is a great idea to avoid this issue again in the future as far as possible.

I think that's all that I can do now. I have explained a couple of times that I can do SEO for them, what that involves and the costs but it gets ignored. I think I just need to keep repeating this and add in that I can't provide any more services for free. What you wrote is almost word for word what I told the client in one of my emails

 

[fisicx]

I can name one UKBF member that won't ever be doing business with you

Jolly good. I doubt you would have even used my services anyway.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Luke, that one sentence is the basis of all your problems, you know what you mean, but it's not the same meaning in your clients mind.

If you tell a layman you're going to make and launch a website, that means you're going to design it, make it work online and when they go to google and type in whatever keywords they want, it will be number one. It's what happens in TV shows and it's what they expect.

Adding whatever to your terms isn't going to help, because no-one reads them until it's too late, you need to change your language.

Are you going to design a website - which is what you seem to be offering or launch a website, which therefore includes SEO which is what the client thinks you're offering.

In your last post you've used launch again, and it's wrong again.

In my proposal I outline the different stages of the build and what happens at launch, in progress emails I also inform the client of what is happening at each stage. For launch I explain the website goes live on the internet etc. If they want to drive more traffic from search engines they should consider an SEO package or invest time themselves working on key areas, these online resources are a great way to get started. My involvement with that has ended but should you need extra work it's xx amount per hour.

I think I make it clear what launch is and what it doesn't involve.

That's an interesting way of looking at it though, I have never considered launching a website to be any more than building and launching it live on to the web. Setting up things they will need like Analytics, Search console etc. 30 days free support and I offer ongoing management and work if needed but make it clear I charge for that. After the 30 day support period I also email and say free support is over but I offer services you might be interested in like SEO, additional developments and so on.

Personally I see what you are describing as ongoing website management with online marketing services on top. Using the word launch do people really expect lifetime work from me to manage their website for them and do all their online marketing.

To me that seems like having a builder build you a house and then expecting them to maintain it and do work on it for you forever.

I'd be interested to here other views on this as maybe I am looking at the word launch all wrong and I should be using terms like going live or something? Those two terms are largely interchangeable for me, the only difference is that going live would sometimes have less work involved as some of the tasks that you'd complete for a new website might already be in place.

Upon launch I do the basic SEO things everyone should be doing (Submit sitemaps, render test, mobile check, meta info...) for any new website but I make it clear that's where it ends.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Client expectations - Nick has nailed the problem. What the client expects from you is different from what you expect from the job you delivered. This sentence on your online-marketing page won't be helping the clients expectations "Increase your online visibility and put your brand in front of the right audience with my SEO service."

That's interesting, I thought that was quite clear. That description is on a page outlining the online marketing services I offer, web design is on a different page. That text is under the SEO bit for Choose from the following services.

I'd love to hear thoughts on what you think might be confusing for clients about that though as I want to make it all as transparent as possible.

 

[fisicx]

To me that seems like having a builder build you a house and then expecting them to maintain it and do work on it for you forever.

Maybe not forever but you expect the builder to come back and sort out things if they aren't quite right. Or expect a car dealer to fix the faults on a new car. The client here had expectations that no amount of explaining on your part would suffice - you launched the site which in their mind meant nothing else needed doing - ergo: all SEO work was included.

So don't launch a site. Just build them a website and don't even mention SEO on the contract, don't do the sitemaps or meta data or anything. Just hand over the site as is and let them manage the launch.

On this page: http://www.lsbwebdesign.co.uk/website-design/ it says you build websites that are search engine optimised. To mean that means you have done all the SEO work.

And the homepage says: "I design beautiful websites & help businesses generate more sales online.". This means to me that if my sales don't improve then it's you that is at fault.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Maybe not forever but you expect the builder to come back and sort out things if they aren't quite right. Or expect a car dealer to fix the faults on a new car. The client here had expectations that no amount of explaining on your part would suffice - you launched the site which in their mind meant nothing else needed doing - ergo: all SEO work was included.

So don't launch a site. Just build them a website and don't even mention SEO on the contract, don't do the sitemaps or meta data or anything. Just hand over the site as is and let them manage the launch.

I have thought about that in the past but then I feel I would be doing them a disservice. I would expect all the basic SEO elements done for any new website built by anyone, I want all my clients to succeed so by doing the standard stuff I can give them the best chance going forwards. If I purchased a website and the basic SEO stuff wasn't included I would feel a bit hard done by, it would be like buying a car and several parts of the engine not being included. It's what's expected and should be included without question in my opinion.

 

[NickGrogan]

You might want to reword this as well. "I create bespoke designs that inspire, engage and deliver results."

That's not part of design, or if it is, you better bring me some sales.

If you're not sure what clients think you mean, just google "launch my website" and see what the first few pages are offering. It's got little to do with design.

The car analogy is a good one, take a look at any car website, what is included in the headline price, is very different from what most people buy. Those optional extras, soon add up. And if you want real performance, you can take your brand new car to a specialist and have almost anything done to it.

It's the same for website, basic design is one thing, basic seo another, advanced seo is more and launching a successful website is something totally different again.

 

[fisicx]

If I purchased a website and the basic SEO stuff wasn't included I would feel a bit hard done by.

The basic SEO stuff is content and navigation. There is nothing for you as the website designer to do unless you are the one importing all the content. But even then it's not your job to optimise. All you are doing is providing the framework for them to develop into a website.

 

[Luke Boobyer]

Thanks I'll definitely go over the site content and see if there is anything ambiguous that could lead to confusion. It just seems silly that people can't read between the lines, for example "and deliver results" is like saying a car can get you from A - B and will do 40 miles to the gallon. Yes it will but it needs something from you, you need to put fuel in it if you want it to work. I think maybe I need to take another look and have a think how someone with 0 computer experience might interpret it.

This has never been an issue before, it just seems to be this 1 in 1000 client who refuses to read the emails I have sent properly or listen to what I say when we talk on the phone.

 

[fisicx]

Most people don't read the details. They rely on you to do everything for them.

Your site pretty much tells anyone you will do everything as pert of the service. You will build and launch and optimise and get them new business. That's what it says on the pages.

 

[Xtm_Mike]

I have thought about that in the past but then I feel I would be doing them a disservice. I would expect all the basic SEO elements done for any new website built by anyone, I want all my clients to succeed so by doing the standard stuff I can give them the best chance going forwards. If I purchased a website and the basic SEO stuff wasn't included I would feel a bit hard done by, it would be like buying a car and several parts of the engine not being included. It's what's expected and should be included without question in my opinion.

I agree with this. I would never hand over a website to my client and expect them to get it online, they have come to you because they don't have a clue.

It is a tricky subject because there are two areas to SEO... On one side a developer can take care of building 'with SEO in-mind' meaning correct use of markup, heading tags in correct places, the use of titles and meta description, w3c complaint. I always ship with robots, sitemaps, etc..

The other side of SEO is link building, adjusting content, keywords, monitoring, competitors... it's a big job and not in the scope of a developer/designer.

If SEO ever comes into the conversation, I always say "I build all websites using the latest technology, as close to web standards as possible with SEO in mind. However, I do not offer on-going SEO services such as content/keyword monitoring, content updates or link building." .. generally it works because I do not mention SEO at all on websites or in contracts.

 

[fisicx]

I agree with this. I would never hand over a website to my client and expect them to get it online, they have come to you because they don't have a clue.

I agree, but Luke's site suggests he does everything including generating new business as part of the package.

But if the client hasn't written the content or isn't clear about what keywords they are targeting then you can't write page titles and description and submitting a sitemap becomes pointless. And as an aside w3c compliance is irrelevant, it's far more important to pass the Google speed tests. This you can do for the client - until they start adding plugins and messing with all your careful work.

 

[TODonnell]

Luke, you're too soft. You went to a lot of trouble for people who demand, but won't pay, to get what they demand.

Fisicx has the correct attitude. There are people who will spend 30 mins on the phone trying to save £10. You'll have to muster your arguments as to why you should be paid for your LABOUR, or drop them as a client.

The only mistake you may have made is giving the impression that you would get this client customers via SEO at no extra cost i.e. that you would set up a site and then get them paying customers. For that is what SEO is; a subset of marketing.

What a beautiful dream for any small businessman. And all for £345.50! (or whatever you charge)

People expect of web designers what they'd never demand of a plumber: hours of exrta unpaid work.

A website can be a black hole of labour; technically, a website is never finished.