E-cigarette safe or not

SteveHa

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Jun 16, 2016
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What baffles me is people switching to e-cigs and claiming they've given up smoking, they seem oblivious to the fact they are still feeding their nicotine addiction and given up nothing. Bit like someone switching from a bottle of vodak a day to sixteen cans of 5% lager and claiming they've stopped drinking.
 
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SteveHa

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Jun 16, 2016
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What baffles me is that people think that vaping and smoking are the same thing. They aren't. Smoking requires combustion and smoke (and the myriad carcinogenic and other chemicals that produces). Vaping requires boiling glycerine. There is a vast difference.

In cigarettes, nicotine is not the harmful substance in the tiny doses it contains. It's the chemicals etc. caused by combustion.

So yes, I gave up smoking. I didn't give up nicotine.

Oh, and for the record, nicotine is also found in potatoes, apples and various other fruit and veg.
 
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Ally Maxwell

What baffles me is people switching to e-cigs and claiming they've given up smoking, they seem oblivious to the fact they are still feeding their nicotine addiction and given up nothing. Bit like someone switching from a bottle of vodak a day to sixteen cans of 5% lager and claiming they've stopped drinking.

You are obviously knowledgeable about neither nicotine addiction or alcoholism.

Nicotine, although highly addictive, is not particularly dangerous (in the right quantities). The other side contents of cigarette smoke are the dangerous parts (formaldehyde, tar, CO etc etc). Would you say the same about someone who had given up cigarettes and still uses nicotine patches ?

For all the 'experts' saying that e liquids will be made with floor cleaner, at least try learning a minimum of information about a subject before forming an opinion. Floor cleaner does not vapourise at 20 odd degrees C for a start like VG/PG. If vapourised VG/PG is dangerous, then hospitals are killing people with nebulisers and air conditioning systems will be dangerous while being disinfected.

I think most smokers accept risk by smoking in the first place. The risk posed by ecigs is likely to be magnitudes less based on what they are, what they do and what's in them.

Ask any long term smoker who has quit for e cigs and they will tell you that the symptoms of smoking related illness, such as cough, wheezing, shortness of breath etc can clear up in 2 weeks of ecig use.

Everything that you do carries risk. Bacon rolls, processed food, energy drinks, breathing in polluted cities etc etc.
 
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See, the two posts above proves the point, you haven't given up your addiction, which is the point I was making. I didn't mention the harmeful effects of alcohol or nicotine/tobacco because it's not relevant to my post. If e-cigs were banned tomorrow you would all he back on the fags in a heartbeat, you wouldn't be sucking on potatoes.
 
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Ally Maxwell

See, the two posts above proves the point, you haven't given up your addiction, which is the point I was making. I didn't mention the harmeful effects of alcohol or nicotine/tobacco because it's not relevant to my post. If e-cigs were banned tomorrow you would all he back on the fags in a heartbeat, you wouldn't be sucking on potatoes.

And if you see the posts above you'll see that no one has claimed to. They've given up SMOKING.
 
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lee989

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Aug 9, 2013
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The question is really whether vaping is safer than smoking. I think most vapers accept that what they are doing is not completely without risk and are aware of the potential issues, both from poor quality devices/liquids too currently unknown long term side effects.

I believe it's currently accepted by most scientists and health organisations that current tests on e-cigs do show them as being safer than smoking. Not only for the person inhaling the vaper but also for "second hand vapers" (where the risks of second hand vaping are expected to be near or even at zero - although no ones going to sit a child in a room of vaper to test their theory in the name of science).

Of course none of this is anything new, so I'd like to address some common questions/issues/complaints as a sort of check sheet.

1. You've not given up anything - your still smoking!
This is the most common one i hear (especially in the local pub). Smoke is the result of combustion, vaper is the result of heating a liquid. By definition vapers have given up smoking. But the main point here is that vaper's never claim to have given up the addiction of nicotine, they have replaced all the known bad stuff (carcinogens) with considerably less bad stuff. It's a common misconception that nicotine is what kills you / gives you cancer but that's not true (unless your picking and handling the stuff), nicotine in the levels smoking and vaping provide is relatively harmless (although acting on different receptors you can draw a comparative "harmfulness" between nicotine and caffeine and alcohol).

2. They explode!
True, there are devices (often cig-a-like style) that are poorly manufactured. But so do mobile phones and many other battery powered devices. This may be where regulation needs to come into play, but there will always be knock-offs on the market stall with dubious quality. I've personally never heard of an exploding vape device from the leading manufacturers, so all regulation will do is increase cost for those already providing high quality devices, the low quality knock offs will still be found on our market stalls regardless.

Battery management is a big thing with these devices. If you put a charged battery in your pocket with your keys then you should expect it too go wrong. Luckily they are designed to vent rather than explode in your pocket, so whilst you may get a little burnt, it's not going to "explode". Education is the most important thing here, you don't stick your fingers in a plug socket so don't put batteries in a pocket full of metal, i'm not sure how we do that and there's always going to be silly people doing silly things.

If you think vaping needs to be abolished due to fires and explosions, then i hope you're also disposing of your mobile phone and anything else with high energy batteries inside.

3. They need regulation
I agree! Whilst I personally feel safe in my choices as a vaper, i understand not everyone will be as vigilant as I am, and vaping is something that should be accessible to everyone (i'm someone who never buys products as soon as they come out and spend a week searching for the best pair of dirt cheap headphones, so i buy stuff that's been well tested already and often broken down and analysed by the local vaping community nerds).

However regulation needs to be done by people who understand vaping. The latest regulations have limited nicotine levels to 20mg which is prohibitively low for smokers looking to switch, and that figure seems to have been plucked from no where. There's also many other rules in the latest regulations which just don't make sense. I hope that when the uK leaves the EU this regulation is dropped and a better regulation brought into effect that is fit for purpose.

4. They're cutting your liquid with bleach!
Quality control is of course a big issue in every product. But ultimately it's up to you as a consumer to be vigilant. If you pay the going rates and stick with the known brands you'll be fine, some of the top end liquid brands i believe have self elected to have unbiased labs test their product for quality too. There's plenty of "back garden brewers" which are safe too, but i'd say those are more for vapers that are "really into it" and do their research. These homebrewers are often just decent people who love vaping and making crazy flavours, not much difference to a micro-brewery or my ld man brewing his xmas liver rotting bitter in the shed.

If you pay 50p for a big bottle of white label liquid of the dodgey looking market stall then expect something dodjey. Although unlike things like vodka, the component parts of eliquid are pretty cheap. I pay more for bleach than i do for my VG base, so more often than not it's not harmful chemicals being mixed into cheap liquids on market stalls, it's often just lack of flavouring and nicotine in them (those are the more expensive parts).

5. Control the nicotine levels
Keeping the level of nicotine consistent is relatively easy if you can do a bit of math (or use a calculator / smart phone app), but yes if you tested enough different liquids you'd find those reported to be 18mg (for example) would vary a bit. But the thing to remember here is that if its done intentionally, it will always be less (to save money) so it's not harmful, and if it's more then it's not going to be considerably enough higher to have any impact. I can assure you, if you're used to vaping 18mg and someone gives you 24mg, you'll know as soon as you use it.

If you want more certainty over the levels, go to one of the bigger vendors that are machine controlled, but the local liquid mixer isn't going to cause any problems by some small variations in nicotine levels.

6. PG is antifreeze!
This was one of the first negative rumours i heard when i started, and many variations related to PG and VG have emerged over the years. The only thing i can say to this, is that the base liquid is approved for use in food stuffs and commonly used i believe as a preservative or to sweeten. Antifreeze also contains water... are you avoiding water too? This is just one of those cases of scaremongering and headline grabbing news. Anyone believing these rumours should take a few minutes to google.

7. Drink it and die!
The same can be said for many things in your cupboard. If you've got kids, then be responsible. Hopefully your bleach is in a locked cupboard or out of reach, so should your liquid. You can't blame vaping for parents being irresponsible or adults being silly.

Having said that, many mass producers use child safe bottles similar to medication bottles and i've seen various warning labels on them too (environment damaging, poison, pregnancy risk, child risk), so generally there's enough information on the bottle if you bother to read it. But ultimately if your vaping it, you know there's nicotine in it, so that alone should be enough for anyone with half a brain cell to take proper care of it.

8. They shouldn't be advertised - Kids are vaping now!
This is probably one of the few i almost agree with. I don't think vaping should be sexualised or made too look cool by advertisers. I've seen a few TV adverts that made me cringe both from the advert contents and what i knew would be the fallout. I think ASA should just ban TV adverts pre-watershed and maybe take the cigarette approach, if you advertise them, you should use plain text on plain background.

Most reputable sellers however do try to avoid selling to kids. I'm sure there's some that will sell too kids (the same can be said for any age limited product) but all of the high street vape shops i have been in have an age restriction on entrance. unfortunately online stores can't verify your age but ultimately vaping is in no worse of a position than many other products. Instead of fighting vaping singularly, there should be joint effort of everyone in the various industries that produce/sell age restricted goods to find new and better ways of verifying someones age prior to sale.

Ultimately this isn't a vaping only issue and shouldn't be treated as one, that's not how these things are made better.
 
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lee989

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Aug 9, 2013
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9. You're now addicted to vaping

Yes, and in some ways the addiction is stronger as i can vape more freely than i can smoke. I used to work in an office where vaping was allowed and now work from home. However the point of switching was never to quit nicotine, it was to give up smoking and the carcinogens that comes with that (see my previous reply above on this).


I feel healthier (i can run up and down the stairs without getting out breathe), I sleep better, smell better and I at least know what i'm doing is safer and healthier than smoking, although I acknowledge it isn't "safe", it's "safer" than smoking.



10. You'll be back on the smokes if vaping is banned

This is a difficult one as it depends on the person. I personally wouldn't... In fact it wouldn't bother me as i'm a bit of a vaping geek. If they banned it, i'd still do it. I mix my own liquid and if i needed too could produce my own coils (i used too). Many of the component parts of vaping liquid and device can all be bought off the shelf for many other purposes so banning it per-se would only drive it underground, this IS NOT what we should be doing, that would just create more dangers rather than solve anything.


Anyway, i think it's a mixture of willpower and how long you've been vaping. Many long term vapers would probably be able to quit. Many will be down to very low levels of nicotine (nearly all vapers i know naturally reduce their nicotine down to 6 or 3mg, some even having no nicotine at all and just enjoy the experience), so quitting is much easier as you're giving up less than you would if you smoked. Also if your on low levels of nicotine, smoking a cigarette will taste foul and probably make you sick, and hopefully unlike the first time when you were possible young and stupid, you won't keep putting yourself through the horribleness of smoking to get to that point of enjoying it.



11. Do it properly and use patches

Patches and other NRTs (Nicotine Replacement Therapy) costs NHS hundreds of millions a year, and whilst the exact figures are hard to come by (differ with each report) around 6.5% seems to be the average success rate of NRT's (my opinion - based on a few reports i've read) with some reports saying even that is inflated due to selecting low willpower candidates (or something to that effect, basically they say a good majority of the 6.5% figure would have quite regardless of the NRT). Some studies (like the one by uni of harvard iirc) even say that long term NRT's have absolutely no effect at all.


So from that, we can conclude that NRT's in all their various forms help very few of the people that actually use them, and cost the NHS a hell of a lot of money.


On the other hand vaping is NOT an NRT and no respectable company (or community) would suggest it is (seems that the news and those against vaping claim it's a quitting device), although you could suggest it has similarities with NRT's, NRT's generally have the end goal of quitting nicotine altogether, which vaping doesn't claim too.


However, even though vaping is not a device for completely quitting many studies have shown that millions of people have quit smoking and eventually vaping completely by using the devices. This i believe is a huge testament to their effectiveness. Switching to vaping requires far less willpower and as i said above, many will naturally lower their nicotine levels gradually without even trying (i know of no vaper that started more than a year ago and hasn't reduced their levels - although i'm sure there are some).


Whilst my very small sample can be used as conclusive proof i know a good few people (friends, family and acquaintances) that have tried many NHS funded NRT's (my nan for example tried pretty much everything from patches and gum to tablets and sprays) and only 1 of those quit (remember he may have quit regardless anyway). On the other hand i know many who switched to vaping (i can name 18 in my head - you'l just have to take my word for it), 2 went back to smoking (one was my own mother - although she does live with my chain smoking father so it would have been harder to keep at it), 4 of them quit completely and the rest are on between 3mg and 12mg of nicotine (having all started on between 24 and 32).


It's for this reason i believe the NHS should (and i believe they are) consider offer vaping devices to help smokers quit. Not only do i honestly believe (and i'm sure i've read some stats that back this up) that vaping CAN have a bigger impact on helping people to quit completely, it's also generally accepted that it's at very least safer than smoking (even if you don't quit completely). The NHS money would have a far greater return and for those that don't quit and stick to vaping, they will hopefully at least have less health issues in the future.



There's many other things people say that i could address, but i'll leave this post here as i've just realised it's turned into a bit of an essay. Maybe i'll write a part two at some point.


Ultimately however those against vaping need to understand that no one is saying it is safe, we're saying it is safer than smoking.
 
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Ally Maxwell

Certainly less damaging but you seriously need to look at what you are putting into your body. This stuff is toxic. I have a friend who uses these and he gets the eLiquid out of the pound shop at 2 for £1, the think's he's getting a good deal. What is the guy getting for 50p a shot?

Who knows what he's getting ? It's a matter of personal choice. I don't buy cheap liquids. I'm also a retailer and sell them too. I buy them from reputable manufacturers. There are a couple that have existed in the UK for a number of years. There is at least one that I know of where you can go to their factory and watch it being produced. in fact, they encourage it.
 
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lee989

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Aug 9, 2013
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Certainly less damaging but you seriously need to look at what you are putting into your body. This stuff is toxic. I have a friend who uses these and he gets the eLiquid out of the pound shop at 2 for £1, the think's he's getting a good deal. What is the guy getting for 50p a shot?

12. It's Toxic

Everything has a toxicity rating sure, the question is whether it's toxic enough to cause harm to human life. There's been plenty of studies on PG since the 1940's and generally it's considered harmless (even to monkeys and rats they tested on), VG has been studied less but anecdotal evidence also seems to point to it being relatively harmless.

Of course the issue here is there's no long term study on the effects of inhaling PG and VG at various saturation levels and temperatures. That doesn't mean it's toxic or it's destroying your lungs, it means we simply do not know. As an e-cigerette user it's up to you to decide whether you wish to take that risk, I believe that any long term study will conclude it to be near harmless based on what i've read (and the recommendations it's receieved from people with much more knowledge on the subject than me) so i've made the decision to take that risk.

Flavouring is where many unknowns come into effect as theres so many of them. Most (if not all) use food grade flavourings, so once again we make the assumption that they will probably be harmless based on what evidence we do have, but we don't yet know for sure.

Ultimately however vaping is a new thing and we simply do not know 100% what the long term effects will be. It may be perfectly safe, or it may cause issues in later life. If you're not prepared to take that risk then don't do it, but making claims that aren't backed up in scientific evidence are just ignorant.

13. 50p a bottle in the pound shop must be full of nasties!
Once again this just comes from lack of research and ignorance, i don't expect everyone to go out and spend their time reading up on the subject if it doesn't interest them, but at the same time why make a comment on something you know very little about.

To start with, eliquid is dirt cheap to make. 5 litres of unflavoured liquid would set me back £20. Flavouring is where costs get added as its the most expensive part, but using a cheap and basic flavour you could probably flavour that 5 litres for around £100. Lets say the entire 5 litres with bottles e.c.t. comes to £150 for 500 x 10ml bottles (the ones you see in most shops). At 50p a throw thats a £100 profit.

That's based on some bedroom mixer buying in low quantity from suppliers many links down the chain. Add in economies of scale (buying more of the product for cheaper, handling larger amounts means you can go further up the chain or even directly to source which is cheaper still) and it makes good business sense.

I'm not saying these pound shop liquids are amazing. There low quality and mass produced, but low quality here doesn't mean it's worse for your health than a bottle of premium £10 stuff, it just means your not going to get as much flavour from it (they'll mix at lower percentages than i personally like) and the flavors are going to be less complex, often single flavours (whereas I prefer something with multiple flavours in it).

If your friend likes the pound shop stuff then good for him and anyone else. There's no reason to assume it's been cut with bleach. It's not too my personal taste but neither are asda smart price beans or aldi's own squash, doesn't mean they are bad for you though.

This is not too say there aren't bad producers that put things in their liquid they shouldn't, but generally speaking it makes no financial sense to do so. The most financially beneficial "knock off" liquid would either be plain water (would only con new vapers) or unflavoured juice with no nicotine (which isn't going to cause you any ill effects, it's just a con), anything else you do is more expensive than the real thing anyway
 
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lee989

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Aug 9, 2013
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If you had a factory that had that vapour in that concentration in the air for any amount of time per shift, you would have to wear breathing apparatus as a minimum - and yet people suck the muck direct to the lungs every time they light up or switch on or whatever you do with them !

I don't want to turn this into a argument by picking you out of the crowd as i'd rather inform and have a fun and healthy debate rather than argue which tends to be the result when you start selecting people out the crowd, so i apologise for directly replying to this.

But, do you have any evidence to back up this claim? Or is it yet another "unfactual fact" that's been invented from ignorance? The fact PG is used in air sanitisation and there's scientific evidence that vaping PG could have anti-microbial properties (yes, it could be good for you!) pretty conclusively shows your blanket statement to be completely untrue.
 
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Davek0974

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But, do you have any evidence to back up this claim? Or is it yet another "unfactual fact" that's been invented from ignorance? The fact PG is used in air sanitisation and there's scientific evidence that vaping PG could have anti-microbial properties (yes, it could be good for you!) pretty conclusively shows your blanket statement to be completely untrue.

No, but i do have many years of working in a factory/h&s related job and there is no way in any dream that you would get away with asking anyone to work in an atmosphere loaded to
that density. I am not talking air fresheners - the PPM level in a drag from a vape pen will be massive.
 
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Root 66 Woodshop

H&S wise Dave has a point.

Breaking Bad for instance - cooking off of chemicals which produce gases harmful enough to ensure that during cooking, you're wearing a gas mask... when using PG scientifically on it's own it's safe... but when you add those colourings, flavours etc... who knows what chemical reaction may occur.

Better being safe than sorry to be fair. :)
 
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Michelle Harris

I don't want to repeat everything everyone has already said but the NHS recently did or are doing in fact a campaign called SmokeFree and one of the recommendations is e-cigs - because

They say ... (from the smokefree website)

Electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) are designed for users to inhale nicotine without most of the harmful effects of smoking. They deliver nicotine by heating and vapourising a solution that typically contains nicotine, propylene glycol and/or glycerine, and flavourings. As there is no burning involved, there is no smoke. Unlike cigarettes, e-cigarettes do not produce tar and carbon monoxide. The vapour has been found to contain some toxicants also found in cigarette smoke, but at much lower levels.
nhsuk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes

So okay so maybe they aren't great, but they are a darn sight better than cigarettes. they actually say they are 95% less harmful than smoking - which was a public health review
 
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Root 66 Woodshop

Who says they are?

Test's showed that they were just as harmful a few years ago... they come up with a new way of delivery and suddenly their safer?

Nothing is safe in this world... nothing at all.

I was sat in a bus stop yesterday inhaling the person's smoke next to me... I didn't smoke but it did affect me... it affected me so much, I had to run across the road to buy a pack!

:D
 
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Root 66 Woodshop

LOL!

The only thing it really trumps with is the date.

Seriously... LOL!

I personally don't give two sh*** I'm a smoker, always will be - I have no reason to quit - we're all going to die in the end anyway, I'd rather enjoy life to the full than be worried about something that is completely uncontrollable.

:D
 
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Root 66 Woodshop

The Royal College of Physicians' new report, Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction, has concluded that e-cigarettes are likely to be beneficial to UK public health. Smokers can therefore be reassured and encouraged to use them, and the public can be reassured that e-cigarettes are much safer than smoking.

Yeah - let's not forget what was said when cigarettes first came out... :D - 1950's anyone?

camels_fresh_blue.jpg


6011872047_c8cb808ae3_b.jpg


1950_cigarette_ad_70-490x270.jpg


camelsdoctor.jpg


gallery2.jpg


:D
 
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Michelle Harris

hahaha those are great, especially the Asthma cigarettes, wow were they different to standard cigarettes I wonder.

There are many many news reports for and against vaping. But the NHS are promoting them as 95% less harmful that tobacco. The reason they say this is because even though you are still getting nicotine you are not getting the other bad stuff in cigs and there's no burning involved, no smoke. They might be wrong - as the above suggests. There are two random points that I'd like to make, first I know many people that have successfully given up smoking through ecigs and have had no ill effects so far, some for many many years. and doctors say they now have increased their life expectancy but 2 now most of them are now hooked on ecigs or vapes.
 
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Scott-Copywriter

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May 11, 2006
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They are substantially safer than cigarettes.

They contain no tar, none of the many toxic chemicals, and no radioactive material (yes, normal cigarettes are radioactive with small traces of polonium-210).

Vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol, the two base substances in e-liquid, are common food additives, and have extremely low toxicity ratings. You just need to ensure that the e-liquid you do buy is of high quality and only contains these compounds along with natural flavourings.

The only "bad guy" is indeed the nicotine, but again, this is dose-dependent. I know people who have gradually reduced the nicotine concentrations of their e-liquids down to 1% or less, which is a fraction of what they would intake through normal cigarette smoking.

Is it as healthy as not vaping at all? Probably not. But it's a huge leap forward in health if you replace regular tobacco smoking with e-cigarettes.

A lot of studies not from reputable sources also need to be viewed with scepticism, as more often than not, they're linked to tobacco companies or other industries which have a vested interest in seeing the e-cigarette boom fail.

I remember one study a while back which showed that e-cigs released a dangerous chemical, but upon further inspection, this was because they were burning the liquid at a temperature far higher than anyone could ever achieve with a normal e-cigarette. Below that, this didn't occur.
 
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You're not too bright, are you ?

Well I'm a lot brighter than you if you think you've quite anything. If you smoke/vape your an addict to nicotine, by simply changing your delivery method you've quite diddley squat. But nicotine addicts have always been very defensive, and in denial, about their habit so it's no surprise they feel justified in subjecting everyone around them in a cloud of nicotine vape, becuse it's "better than" tobacco. It's no better than a alcoholic force feeding a innocent by stander vodka.
 
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They are substantially safer than cigarettes.

They contain no tar, none of the many toxic chemicals, and no radioactive material (yes, normal cigarettes are radioactive with small traces of polonium-210).

Vegetable glycerin and propylene glycol, the two base substances in e-liquid, are common food additives, and have extremely low toxicity ratings. You just need to ensure that the e-liquid you do buy is of high quality and only contains these compounds along with natural flavourings.

The only "bad guy" is indeed the nicotine, but again, this is dose-dependent. I know people who have gradually reduced the nicotine concentrations of their e-liquids down to 1% or less, which is a fraction of what they would intake through normal cigarette smoking.

Is it as healthy as not vaping at all? Probably not. But it's a huge leap forward in health if you replace regular tobacco smoking with e-cigarettes.

A lot of studies not from reputable sources also need to be viewed with scepticism, as more often than not, they're linked to tobacco companies or other industries which have a vested interest in seeing the e-cigarette boom fail.

I remember one study a while back which showed that e-cigs released a dangerous chemical, but upon further inspection, this was because they were burning the liquid at a temperature far higher than anyone could ever achieve with a normal e-cigarette. Below that, this didn't occur.

That's all well and good, but it's the passive vaping that's an issue. The vast clouds of vape that these e-cigs produce is frankly disgusting and shouldn't be inflicted on innocents bystanders.
 
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Scott-Copywriter

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That's all well and good, but it's the passive vaping that's an issue. The vast clouds of vape that these e-cigs produce is frankly disgusting and shouldn't be inflicted on innocents bystanders.

Of course. I don't doubt that people have to be respectful when it comes to how they vape, i.e doing so outdoors and not blowing clouds into crowded places. It's just common courtesy.

On the flip side though, it is considerably less dangerous than passive smoke, and you have to consider that an increase in e-cigarette use is contributing to a decline in the far more dangerous passive smoke. Still not ideal for those who don't like it, but a good step forward for everyone nonetheless.

And just to alleviate any health concerns:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23033998

I would comfortably say that there's more of a health concern from car exhausts going past you in the street than there is from passive vaping.
 
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Of course. I don't doubt that people have to be respectful when it comes to how they vape, i.e doing so outdoors and not blowing clouds into crowded places. It's just common courtesy.

On the flip side though, it is considerably less dangerous than passive smoke, and you have to consider that an increase in e-cigarette use is contributing to a decline in the far more dangerous passive smoke. Still not ideal for those who don't like it, but a good step forward for everyone nonetheless.

And just to alleviate any health concerns:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23033998

I would comfortably say that there's more of a health concern from car exhausts going past you in the street than there is from passive vaping.

Yes your probably right, time will tell. It's just unpleasant to suddenly find yourself in a fog of second hand vape!
 
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