It's not over yet - EU

[bharris]

As I see it we voted to have more influence and self-determination.

So what are we determined to do now?

All this talk still comes from a victim mentality (on both sides), but my question is, 'Now we have at leat a finger on the steering wheel, where do we want to go?'

It might not be an easy ride. But start with where you want to go and then look at the obstacles in the frame of, 'How to we get around them?'

Or we could sit like a rabbit caught in the headlights wondering what external forces are keeping us there!

Well said... Its clear our elected leaders are too busy squabbling. The ones who will succeed will be the ones who embrace this fantastic opportunity. Some will win some will lose that's just business, the world keeps turning. So take advantage and be proud.

 

[Christine Hough]

Q's

Who do we want to negotiate with now to open up new markets?

What are our core values which we want to keep? (that we feared losing in United states of Europe)

Where do we see opportunities?

How do we promote the required skills?

How do we encourage and nurture entrepreneurial skills?

What is our version of 'human rights?'

How do we structure government at all levels to be responsive to new ways and procedures?

What should our relationship be with EU, USA and other current close relations?
How do we support essential infrastructure such as NHS, police, councils, transport?


Otherwise,
You can take the UK out of EU.
But can you take EU out of UK?
And how much do you want to?

 

[bharris]

This is true however Scott doesn't seem to realise what our nation is capable off.

Or he is in his early 20's who blames old people while forgetting the sacrifice they made in their youth for the British people.

My dad is one of "those old people" in his late 70's obviously didn't fight in WW2 but he has got a free bus pass, gets a pension. However as he still owns a small factory unit which is rented out he pays more in tax than he gets in hand outs. Should he not have a vote? Some "informed (and i went to Uni don't you know) people" are unbelievably pigheadedly stupid.

 

[APW]

My dad is one of "those old people" in his late 70's obviously didn't fight in WW2 but he has got a free bus pass, gets a pension. However as he still owns a small factory unit which is rented out he pays more in tax than he gets in hand outs. Should he not have a vote? Some "informed (and i went to Uni don't you know) people" are unbelievably pigheadedly stupid.

Agreed, personally I think before you should be allowed to vote you should have served the country, or the public or contributed to the tax system.

Not just lived off mum and dad, went to Ibiza went a few mates then spent 3 years in uni....great life experience

 

[Mark T Jones]

Or he is in his early 20's who blames old people while forgetting the sacrifice they made in their youth for the British people.

Let's not forget that estimated turnout of under 25s was about 50% which means that by default the majority young vote was 'don't care'.

 

[john1989]

My dad is one of "those old people" in his late 70's obviously didn't fight in WW2 but he has got a free bus pass, gets a pension. However as he still owns a small factory unit which is rented out he pays more in tax than he gets in hand outs. Should he not have a vote? Some "informed (and i went to Uni don't you know) people" are unbelievably pigheadedly stupid.

I'm in my 20's and I'm sick of seeing on my Facebook people posting how the young have been shafted.


'Sorry Josh, but you posted a photo of you licking a Sambuca off an escorts boob whilst holidaying in Magaluf. I have no respect for your stupid opinion.

Sorry Sarah, but you didn't know who David Cameron was last year. I have no respect for your stupid opinion.'

 

[Ian J]

I'm in my 20's

I wish I was

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

it's Vodafones biggest source of European income and now Vodafone are just going to leave because you don't agree with some vote. Good one.

Vodafone said that 55% of group profits in the last financial year came from its European operations, with the UK providing just 11%. The company is also to start reporting its financial results in euros, rather than pounds.

No it isn't.

Do you even know what point your trying to make, it's like you are just complaining because you didn't get your way.

It's a harmless debate, is it not? That's what forums are for.

No one is forced to participate, but I find it interesting to discuss the ramifications of Brexit with those who wish to do so. It's not a competition.

This is the biggest change the UK will experience in a generation. It is, shall we say, a worthy talking point.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Scott, you say your business is based in the UK but can I ask....are you British? (ie born and raised in Britain). This is by no means a racism questions but British people have a resilience and determination that is greater than any other nation in the world

Born and raised in the North East of the UK.

I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England in a household which didn't have two pennies to rub together.

I also started my first business with only £20. No other capital, no investment and no outside assistance. If I needed something done, I taught myself how to do it. Fast-forward to today, and I consider myself to be doing quite well.

Believe me, I share the British resilience and determination just as much as anyone else. Perhaps this should only serve to underline my concerns even further, as despite all this, I'm still very worried about what I believe is likely to unfold over the next few years.

 

[SamLH]

No it isn't.



It's a harmless debate, is it not? That's what forums are for.

No one is forced to participate, but I find it interesting to discuss the ramifications of Brexit with those who wish to do so. It's not a competition.

This is the biggest change the UK will experience in a generation. It is, shall we say, a worthy talking point.

Debating would be talking about what the options are now. You're regurgitating biased or trivial opinions from mediocre news sites like they are facts.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36659900

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-29/uk-must-have-freedom-of-movement-for-single-market-access/

Followed by these comments from Sajid Javid, the Secretary of State for Business:

A growing number of firms have warned about shifting their headquarters from the UK despite the Business Secretary insisting maintaining access to the single market is his "number one priority.

"A visible commitment to openness must be at the heart of our new relationship with the EU.

"In practice this means tariff and barrier free access to the single market; maintaining trade deals around the world; attracting and keeping skills; and working out the trade-offs between these three."

So, Brexiteers, a genuine question: if we can't access the single market without free movement of people, what do we do?

Do you believe they are bluffing? What if they aren't?

I've clearly waffled on an awful lot here about what I think will happen, so what do you folks think will happen? What do you want to happen regarding this particular issue?

 

[ShirleyM]

So, Brexiteers, a genuine question: if we can't access the single market without free movement of people, what do we do?

Do you believe they are bluffing? What if they aren't?

My humble opinion,for what it's worth. I don't want us to be in the EU or the single market because it brings more disadvantages than advantages and reminds me of the Mafia protection racket. Nowhere else in the world do you have to accept those trading conditions.

We aren't like Norway, where they are totally reliant on exports to the EU. I am sure we can open up new markets.

If we cannot obtain a fair trade agreement without free movement of people then I would walk away and resort to WTO tariffs. Not ideal, I know, but better than the deal we have now.

 

[MikeJ]

Scott, you say your business is based in the UK but can I ask....are you British? (ie born and raised in Britain). This is by no means a racism questions but British people have a resilience and determination that is greater than any other nation in the world

"This isn't racism, but British people are better than any others".

:

 

[APW]

"This isn't racism, but British people are better than any others".

:

I don't believe thats what i said now is it?

black people can be proud to be black, indian people can be proud to be indian, asians can be around to be asian but apparently being proud to be british or being proud to be white means your racist....

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

My humble opinion,for what it's worth. I don't want us to be in the EU or the single market because it brings more disadvantages than advantages and reminds me of the Mafia protection racket. Nowhere else in the world do you have to accept those trading conditions.

We aren't like Norway, where they are totally reliant on exports to the EU. I am sure we can open up new markets.

If we cannot obtain a fair trade agreement without free movement of people then I would walk away and resort to WTO tariffs. Not ideal, I know, but better than the deal we have now.

Opinion welcomed!

Anyone else? Are there any leave supporters here who would accept free movement of labour for continued access to the single market?

 

[threenine]

If we cannot obtain a fair trade agreement without free movement of people

It is this that I am more concerned about. I really couldn't care less about immigrants, but rather more concerned about emigrants!

The freedom of movement means a lot more to me than some sh!tty trade agreements. I deal with customers worldwide, and to be honest I'm not even sure if half of them are covered by any sort of trade agreements

 

[APW]

Born and raised in the North East of the UK.

I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England in a household which didn't have two pennies to rub together.

And when did you leave the breast? With you recent "facts" taken from news sites and you fearful attitude I will assume it was pretty recent.

Everyone here knows that the future is unpredictable and in business you will always need to adapt (whether in the EU or not), businesses that don't adapt will always fail.

Are you worried that you don't have the ability to adapt your business model?

 

[john1989]

Opinion welcomed!

Anyone else? Are there any leave supporters here who would accept free movement of labour for continued access to the single market?

Not for me, and ShirleyM has summed up pretty nicely my stance on it.

I don't want to be just a little bit of the EU.

I think we will eventually prosper and exceed what we could have achieved remaining in the EU.

 

[threenine]

And when did you leave the breast?

Why does that even matter?

It's well known and documented that the older you get the more fearful of change you become!

 

[APW]

Why does that even matter?

It's well known and documented that the older you get the more fearful of change you become!

It matters because he has a poor attitude, like its the first time in his life that something has changed. I know plenty of elderly people and myself (being middle aged) that love change and look forward to it, everyone loves change they just don't want to admit they are scared when its actually exciting.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

If we cannot obtain a fair trade agreement without free movement of people then I would walk away and resort to WTO tariffs. Not ideal, I know, but better than the deal we have now.

I just don't understand the attitude that cuts the whole Britain's population, especially the young, from all the wonderful advantages that free movement brings. The chances to work and live anywhere in the EU. The chance to study anywhere in the EU on the same basis as one can study in the UK. (but cheaper)

The attitude that UK citizens should not have the right, enjoyed by everyone in the EU to live anywhere in the EU.

 

[Christine Hough]

Opinion welcomed!

Anyone else? Are there any leave supporters here who would accept free movement of labour for continued access to the single market?

I didn't vote out primarily because of migration. So I don't rule this out.
More important to me is that we keep our identity as a country, our values, and our democracy.

I found Mr Obama's reaction interesting.
He described the vote as having pressed the pause button on full European integration.

I am sure that means effectively all decisions will be at EU level and all member countries will become member states as are the states of the USA. The shock of this vote, especially in Europe, questions how much the leaders are in touch with the people. I do not think they will allow the public again to rock the boat. It is not going to get better.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It matters because he has a poor attitude, like its the first time in his life that something has changed. I know plenty of elderly people and myself (being middle aged) that love change and look forward to it, everyone loves change they just don't want to admit they are scared when its actually exciting.

You think being 33 is "middle aged"?

 

[MikeJ]

I don't believe thats what i said now is it?

black people can be proud to be black, indian people can be proud to be indian, asians can be around to be asian but apparently being proud to be british or being proud to be white means your racist....

Being proud to be anything which is really a result of where your mum and dad came from is a bit daft. I like Britain, but I don't think we're any better or worse than any other nation. People are people. What you actually said was....

"British people have a resilience and determination that is greater than any other nation"

... so you think we're better than any other nation at something that can't really be measured. .

 

[Christine Hough]

Why does that even matter?

It's well known and documented that the older you get the more fearful of change you become!

Beware, 'divide and rule' has always been a strategy. The election results are not old v young!

 

[MikeJ]

Not for me, and ShirleyM has summed up pretty nicely my stance on it.

I don't want to be just a little bit of the EU.

I think we will eventually prosper and exceed what we could have achieved remaining in the EU.

Couple of key words there. "think" and "eventually". So, give it enough time we may be better off than staying in the EU.

Starting to think it's going to be ok now, with that positive thinking.

 

[APW]

You think being 33 is "middle aged"?

Im not 33.....well 33 + Vat lol

 

[john1989]

Couple of key words there. "think" and "eventually". So, give it enough time we may be better off than staying in the EU.

Starting to think it's going to be ok now, with that positive thinking.

Would you rather me post silly links that still won't confirm what will happen.

I voted out. That doesn't enable to see into the future.

At least I admit it's opinion, rather than pretend it's fact as others have done.

 

[APW]

Being proud to be anything which is really a result of where your mum and dad came from is a bit daft. I like Britain, but I don't think we're any better or worse than any other nation. People are people. What you actually said was....

"British people have a resilience and determination that is greater than any other nation"

... so you think we're better than any other nation at something that can't really be measured. .

Yes regarding our resilience and determination, we are the best in the world. While there is plenty we are the worst at...**cough cough football cough**

 

[ShirleyM]

I just don't understand the attitude that cuts the whole Britain's population, especially the young, from all the wonderful advantages that free movement brings. The chances to work and live anywhere in the EU. The chance to study anywhere in the EU on the same basis as one can study in the UK. (but cheaper)

The attitude that UK citizens should not have the right, enjoyed by everyone in the EU to live anywhere in the EU.

You don't understand that many youngsters will still be able to live and work in the EU, albeit some documentation may be required. What about the opportunity for easy access to Australia, and New Zealand? Why are some people so determined to restrict our opportunities to the EU?

The world is a big place, much bigger than the EU.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Not for me, and ShirleyM has summed up pretty nicely my stance on it.

I don't want to be just a little bit of the EU.

I think we will eventually prosper and exceed what we could have achieved remaining in the EU.

Fair enough.

Another question: hypothetically, let's say things do go south for the UK.

Is there any price you would not be prepared to pay for large-scale freedom from EU requirements?

Most leave supporters acknowledge that there will be some turmoil ahead, but how much is too much, if any? Would 5 years of recession be too much? What about 10 years or 15+ years?

This is not intended to be a loaded question. The reason I'm asking is that I want to know if there is a price not worth paying for leave supporters, or whether this is a Braveheart-style "I'd be prepare to die for our freedom" type of thing - hypothetically speaking.

Is this confidence in our decision based on having a personal opinion that it won't be as bad and prolonged as people say, or is it based on an acknowledgement that it will be that bad but that's a price you're prepared to accept for the long-term future?

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Im not 33.....well 33 + Vat lol

I'd recommend changing your date of birth visible on your profile then. A typo, I presume?

 

[APW]

Freedom has no monetary value. Freedom is paid for in blood and sacrifice.

They gave their today for your tomorrow!

 

[ShirleyM]

More important to me is that we keep our identity as a country, our values, and our democracy.

I wholeheartedly agree. Absolutely essential as far as I am concerned. I can, if required, compromise on other things, but too much of anything eventually turns out to be bad, and that applies to immigration and everything else in life.

 

[APW]

I'd recommend changing your date of birth visible on your profile then. A typo, I presume?

not a typo, just the dream

 

[Deleted member 59730]

More important to me is that we keep our identity as a country, our values, and our democracy.

The EU has helped and encouraged national and regional identity and local value systems. The EU actively encourages local languages. The EU promotes and protects local foods; not only Champagne but the humble Cornish Pasty. It has done far more than the UK government would have done on its own.

The EU has extended democracy in this country by making votes to the EU Parliament proportional rather than our rather backward FPTP system.

(I can't resist a bit of trivia about the Protected status of the Cornish Pasty. This idea was first floated in the manifesto of The Monster Raving Loony Party.)

 

[Deleted member 59730]

You don't understand that many youngsters will still be able to live and work in the EU, albeit some documentation may be required. .

So you are prepared to take away RIGHTS and replace them with a begging bowl. Great.

 

[APW]

So you are prepared to take away RIGHTS and replace them with a begging bowl. Great.

Nobody TOOK away anything....there was a democratic vote and the majority agreed to leave the EU. We have opened up the world for people and offered them more options.

Get over it and get on with it now.

 

[ShirleyM]

So you are prepared to take away RIGHTS and replace them with a begging bowl. Great.

Absolutely NOT! I am preserving the RIGHT for all UK citizens to live in a free, democratic, self governing country. I think that is far more important than the 'rights' of some people to live and work abroad.

 

[threenine]

What about the opportunity for easy access to Australia, and New Zealand?

They have nothing to do with the EU, in or out! They are covered by Commonwealth status, which is an entirely separate thing.