Europe should we stay in or get out?

[simon field]

Never too late for that one ^^^

 

[threenine]

And to put this into context for the younger members here. It was our parents and grandparents who fought and died in two world wars to ensure that we could vote, and be able to change the direction of govt if we saw fit. They did in 1945, shook the establishment to its core and voted in the Labour govt that produced the NHS. We then made big changes in 1979 and again in 1997.

OMG! Wonderfully distorted views of history there again!

The two world wars had nothing to do with a democracy. In fact, they were caused by exactly the same thing as any war. A dangerous brew of Patriotism, nationalism , xenophobia and sovereignty. Hence exactly the same reasons why I want nothing to do with those ideals.

Really so what that you had family members in world wars. I think every British household can make that claim! If you really respect those people and their sacrifice, it's a far better to attempt that future offspring don't need or are asked to make the same sacrifice based on idiotic ideals.

We are a global community of human beings, we only have one planet. We should all be working to ensure that this one piece of rock, in the vast darkness of space, continue to offer a sustainable life for future generations, and not wiped out by a bunch of tossers (i.e. dictators like Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussien etc) who somehow think one set of ideals or attachment to any particular clump of rock is any better than anyone elses!

 

[RBS]

I haven't bothered to check it, but isn't it a bit bloody late?

Its not too late in this case, I suggest you check it.

 

[sirearl]

OMG! Wonderfully distorted views of history there again!

The two world wars had nothing to do with a democracy.

!

Maybe not but the last one had quite a lot to do with freedom.

You really need to study a bit harder,there is only 1 cause of war.

 

[Ian J]

I see that Jeremy Hunt is talking about standing for the PM's job.

The next Prime Minister needs to be someone who can handle the forthcoming tough negotiations with the EC yet Hunt can't even negotiate with junior doctors

 

[threenine]

Maybe not but the last one had quite a lot to do with freedom.

Nope the last war, had every thing to do with Xenophobia, nationalisation, sovereignty.

You need to go study that war in detail. There were a number of long term causes that led to the outbreak of the war.

Anyway, I will invoke the Godwin's law, here and conclude this debate, seen as though it has degenerated to the extent to bringing the nazi's into it. Just goes to show, we are just not able to move forward.

anyway, it's done deal. I still am unable to get any justified responses from either side of the fence of this referendum, and in fact I think the only one in this whole debate that offered any rational responses has been @Clinton .

We've all got to move on, and in my opinion try make the best of a rather ill thought out referendum on the whole.

Whatever the outcome. Good luck everyone

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The last war was kicked off for us because of our treaty with our friends the Polish people. Seems odd that the current chaos is partly down to peoples' hatred of the Polish.

 

[threenine]

This whole referendum was full of irony!

 

[ShirleyM]

Seems odd that the current chaos is partly down to peoples' hatred of the Polish.

There you go again. That's the sort of talk that incites hatred and racism.

Nobody hates the Polish (except a few individuals who probably hate everyone). We admire the Polish, they are great people. We just don't want unlimited numbers of immigrants, whatever nation they may hail from.

 

[threenine]

We just don't want unlimited numbers of immigrants, whatever nation they may hail from.

We never have had, or probably never will have unlimited migrants

 

[john1989]

The whole campaign was based on Opinions not facts.

We never have had, or probably never will have unlimited migrants

If the door remains open, there is no limit to people coming to the UK.

 

[threenine]

If the door remains open, there is no limit to people coming to the UK.

Unfortunately I think you'll find that "the door" will have the same rules as before.

Anyway, did you throw some chairs around for us last night? I was listening out for you, but couldn't quite hear it

 

[john1989]

Unfortunately I think you'll find that "the door" will have the same rules as before.

Anyway, did you throw some chairs around for us last night? I was listening out for you, but couldn't quite hear it

I watched the match at home. I don't have a habit of destroying my furniture.

 

[ShirleyM]

Unfortunately I think you'll find that "the door" will have the same rules as before.

Fortunately, you will be proved wrong, until such time that our democracy is crushed by a totalitarian government and the majority of the people in the UK will do everything in their power to prevent that.

 

[threenine]

Fortunately, you will be proved wrong, until such time that our democracy is crushed by a totalitarian government and the majority of the people in the UK will do everything in their power to prevent that.

mmmmmm I'll put a marker on this and lets revisit this. I reserve my opinion till the facts play out. I am not going to succumb wild speculation. I think we've all had enough of that.

 

[Ian J]

Nobody hates the Polish (except a few individuals who probably hate everyone). We admire the Polish, they are great people..

We hated them in 1974 especially their "clown" of a goalkeeper who stopped us going to the World Cup finals

 

[Ian J]

I reserve my opinion till the facts play out. I am not going to succumb wild speculation. I think we've all had enough of that.

It isn't all speculation though as a certain person on this forum can actually see the future

 

[threenine]

You're not talking about Clare Voyant are you?

 

[threenine]

I'm really concerned that all my groceries will go up. All my stuff comes from Germany, I exclusively by from Aldi and Lidl. I have vetoed Iceland for obvious reasons!

 

[KM-Tiger]

I'm really concerned that all my groceries will go up.

In the medium to long term they will go down when protectionist EU tariffs are removed from food imports, and we begin to really help under developed countries by trading with them.

Don't know about Aldi, but LIdl source from all over the place, not just Germany.

 

[ShirleyM]

Don't know about Aldi, but LIdl source from all over the place, not just Germany.

I like Lidl because they have more UK produce than most of the supermarkets, and they have a policy to not sell meat from unstunned slaughter. That may not be important to many people, but it is very important to me.

 

[KM-Tiger]

they have a policy to not sell meat from unstunned slaughter.

Was not aware of that. They should publicise it more as it matters to a lot of people.

 

[Cobby]

Congratulations. You managed almost 500 words before your first insult.

Hopefully Boris and Michael will have spotted that you have a far greater intellect than they do and will ask you to come on board as their principle advisor and guiding hand

You snipped his whole argument. A nice long piece for you to counter with reason and logic, and instead scrolled straight to the bottom and cried "don't call me stupid!". Perhaps keep that in mind while you're referring to everyone still discussing and debating the issue as "the Remain losers".

And to put this into context for the younger members here. It was our parents and grandparents who fought and died in two world wars to ensure...*record scratch*

No! Nope, don't do that. It's tasteless and crass.

Ironically, the petition for another referendum was actually started a month ago by an out voter. He started it as a tongue in cheek petition thinking we wouldn't get out. Now the remain Nazis have jumped on the back of it and hijacked it.

Hahaha, no way do you believe that. Nobody does. Hahaha

 

[Cobby]

It is a big ol' socialist wealth re-distribution project that has a huge central flaw...

It's a socialist experiment, it's a neo-con construction, it's a force of neo-liberal oppression, crikey, make up your minds.

Quite right, Ian.

Until we give formal notice under Article 50, the ball is in our court.
In the event of an exit, nothing was going to be done in the first few days / weeks. Why people are expecting I don't know.

The ball is in our court. And we're waiting with an ever-shrinking racket with which we can hit it back.

The Leave voters want to leave (well, some now don't but...), the leaders of the campaign they bought into don't really want to leave, and meanwhile the market continues to punish us as we diminish our own reputation with an inability to make firm decisions or take action.

 

[Cobby]

There you go again. That's the sort of talk that incites hatred and racism.

Nobody hates the Polish (except a few individuals who probably hate everyone).

Yes, of course, you are right as always, it's the Remain campaign that has stoked the fires of racism...

I like Lidl because they have more UK produce than most of the supermarkets, and they have a policy to not sell meat from unstunned slaughter. That may not be important to many people, but it is very important to me.

Oh good, you'll be pleased to hear talk in the farming sector of dropping animal welfare standards here to reduce our overheads so we can compete with the likes of South America.

Uh oh, impending cognitive dissonance...

 

[ShirleyM]

How on earth do people manage to get out of bed on a morning when all they see is doom and gloom? Do you doom and gloom merchants ever see the good in anything or anybody, besides your precious EU?

Bye for now.

 

[ShirleyM]

Do you have proof this was placed by a racist or Leaver? it could have been placed by a crybaby loser trying to stir up trouble. After all, the remainers are the only ones to gain from these posters, by discrediting the Leavers. It's the remainers that are plastering it everywhere they go.

 

[john1989]

You snipped his whole argument. A nice long piece for you to counter with reason and logic, and instead scrolled straight to the bottom and cried "don't call me stupid!". Perhaps keep that in mind while you're referring to everyone still discussing and debating the issue as "the Remain losers".



No! Nope, don't do that. It's tasteless and crass.



Hahaha, no way do you believe that. Nobody does. Hahaha

Yes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-second-eu-referendum-was-created-by-a-leave/

However, the author of the petition has now published a statement distancing himself from it. William Oliver Healey wrote on Facebook: “This petition was created at a time (over a month ago) when it was looking unlikely that 'leave' were going to win, with the intention of making it harder for 'remain' to further shackle us to the EU. Due to the result, the petition has been hijacked by the remain campaign.”

How the UK public really felt about Brexit Play! 01:33

Mr Healy, a former MEP candidate for the English Democrats, launched the petition in November stating: "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum.”

However, he now says: “Since I am associated with the petition and before the press further associate me with it I felt the need to better clarify my position on the issue even if it looks bad.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Mr Healy, a former MEP candidate for the English Democrats, launched the petition in November stating: "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum.”

Despite being cleaned of thousands of false votes this petition is close to 4 million.

A lawyer on the radio questioned the validity of the vote by quoting an old act of parliament which said that a simple majority would not be valid. When Cameron rushed through this referendum Parliament should apparently have repealed the earlier Act first. An obscure legal point which I cannot find on the web.

 

[john1989]

Despite being cleaned of thousands of false votes this petition is close to 4 million.

A lawyer on the radio questioned the validity of the vote by quoting an old act of parliament which said that a simple majority would not be valid. When Cameron rushed through this referendum Parliament should apparently have repealed the earlier Act first. An obscure legal point which I cannot find on the web.

If we did another petition to uphold the referendum vote, I'm sure there would be millions that sign that too.

If you find the link, please post. I'd be interested to have a read.

 

[Deleted member 226268]

SO... All you lowly cattle class plebeian sheep voted us out ......did you.

Now we will punish you with crippling health and services cuts and high tax increases.
VAT will go up to 50%
Unemployment benefits will be cancelled.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-osbrne-budget-idUKKCN0ZE0JA

.

 

[threenine]

To be fair, Boris Johnson did say this in his "Victory speech"

"Now we have the ability to set our own taxes"

 

[Cobby]

Do you have proof this was placed by a racist or Leaver? it could have been placed by a crybaby loser trying to stir up trouble. After all, the remainers are the only ones to gain from these posters, by discrediting the Leavers. It's the remainers that are plastering it everywhere they go.

Oh come one, grow up. Yes, all of the racial abuse and hatred that has been pouring out over the past few days is just Remain voters trying to make Leave voters look bad?

Are you for real?

 

[Cobby]

Yes.

Yeah, I read his facebook page too, but you missed that I bolded a bit. Nobody believes it was "tongue-in-cheek" and if Leave had lost they'd be jumping onto that bandwagon with a much serious fervour as they could muster.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Well, everything is going to be alright. Oliver Letwin is to lead the exit negotiations.

Just what we need after Cameron, Osborne and Johnson. Another Eton educated politician.

 

[Newchodge]

Well, everything is going to be alright. Oliver Letwin is to lead the exit negotiations.

Just what we need after Cameron, Osborne and Johnson. Another Eton educated politician.

You are joking, aren't you, please?

 

[KM-Tiger]

Oliver Letwin is to lead the exit negotiations.

I don't think so. Letwin will lead the team that reports to the Cabinet Office and in turn to the Cabinet.

So very much a back office function.

 

[john1989]

Yeah, I read his facebook page too, but you missed that I bolded a bit. Nobody believes it was "tongue-in-cheek" and if Leave had lost they'd be jumping onto that bandwagon with a much serious fervour as they could muster.

Quite possibly.

If out had lost, I wouldn't have supported a second referendum. I'm sure others would try, as the remain camp has proved

 

[Newchodge]

I agree wholeheartedly. A second referendum is a distraction, and probably unlawful. The powers that be, whoever they are, need to get on with implementing this decision. And I say that as a rabid IN supporter. The decision has been made. Come on Boris, do what you said you would before you realised that you had 'won'. You despicable deceitful liar.

I base that last comment on Boris' article in the Telegraph, in which he made it absolutely clear that, whatever the out voters expected, they are going to get what he wants. Which is very, very different.

 

[KM-Tiger]

whatever the out voters expected, they are going to get what he wants

I don't think Andrea Leadsom will let him do that.