Please suggest free or low cost invoicing software

[Clinton]

I'm helping a kid with his startup. He needs something basic to create quotes and invoices and wants it ideally for free, but he can pay a few quid.

But what a nightmare!

I thought I'd give open source a go as I'm a big believer in open source. But, to cut a very long story short, that was a bad idea. The main choices are all either with no support (and no community / forum to ask questions) or they're a nightmare to setup. (I've just wasted a couple of hours mucking about with mySQL databases and tweaking PHP files and still couldn't get basic features to work on all THREE I tried).

So, low cost programs. Any suggestions / recommendations? Is there any good invoicing program that can be bought at a reasonable price, downloaded and run locally (or off his own server)?

Nothing subscription based , please. Subscriptions are great way of starting off cheap but ending up paying a huge amount over several years - usually far more than the software would have been worth if bought outright. And nothing that involves giving all the data to a 3rd party for them to maintain on their server... though I appreciate that's the easiest option and there a million such services around.

 

[Alan]

No nothing, technology is going cloud based / subscription model, one off licensing is dead business model.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Its a shame you dont want to pay a monthly subscription as Accounts Portal is great - it's one of the most competitively priced too.

I havent used it for quite a while but Solar Accounts may do all you want - https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I dont generally recommend it as it duplicates work but another option would be something like VT cashbook (which is free) to record accounting transactions used together with a free online invoicing package such as Freshbooks.

 

[Clinton]

Its a shame you dont want to pay a monthly subscription as Accounts Portal is great - it's one of the most competitively priced too.

£10 a month does appear competitive. But one of the first businesses I created ran for over 10 years under my ownership/management. At £10 a month that's £1,200 over 10 years! That's assuming no price increases along the way ... which is always a risk. Even if you run for just 2-3 years before upgrading your accounting package because of business growth, that's still a lot of money. I'm surprised savvy business people don't see this and instead get sucked in by the low initial monthly charge.

I shall check your other recommendation out, thanks.

I dont generally recommend it as it duplicates work but another option would be something like VT cashbook (which is free) ...

Ah, VT! I have a CD somewhere with an old version of VT on it from many years ago. I forgot about that. And you say VT can be downloaded as well? I'll go check it out.

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else with any ideas, please feel free to post.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

£10 a month does appear competitive. But one of the first businesses I created ran for over 10 years under my ownership/management. At £10 a month that's £1,200 over 10 years! That's assuming no price increases along the way ... which is always a risk. Even if you run for just 2-3 years before upgrading your accounting package because of business growth, that's still a lot of money. I'm surprised savvy business people don't see this and instead get sucked in by the low initial monthly charge.

I shall check your other recommendation out, thanks.


Ah, VT! I have a CD somewhere with an old version of VT on it from many years ago. I forgot about that. And you say VT can be downloaded as well? I'll go check it out.

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone else with any ideas, please feel free to post.

I appreciate what you say about the cost of software but I can hand on heart say Accounts Portal is worth every penny. The billing and bank statement import saves me hours.

Here's a link to VT if you want to take a look - http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/cashbook/ you can download it from there.

 

[john1989]

If your value you place on a tool to help run the finances of a business effectively is much less than £120 per year, then I would honestly question the viability of the business.

Business savvy people place a value on running the finances of a business effectively. Maybe you've missed a trick?

 

[Clinton]

john1989, maybe I've missed a trick. Or maybe I'm smart enough to know when a fixed fee product does the job - this specific job for this kid's startup - just as well as a product with an open-ended cost that could run into thousands.

If you believe that even invoicing software (see the OP) should be attributed an "annual" value you've been conned hook, line and sinker.

 

[Alan]

Total Cost of Ownership - not just software licence fees have to be in the calculation.

2 or three years of upgrading your accounting package.

So whats a decent accounting package, lets say £200 * 5 = £1,000

5 times re-install - lets say an hour a time at UK IT rates = 5 * £60 = £300

5 times management looking at the issue lets say 30 minute at management rates = 5 * .5 * £100 = £250

So easily getting way over your 10 years £1200 cost of ownership of managed service.

Cloud based solutions TCO are typically 30% less than self managed / self hosted solutions.

Time to revisit what is business savvy or not.

 

[Clinton]

I don't buy your figures.

But in any case, we aren't talking accounting packages.

 

[Alan]

Just saw your other reply,

The other issue you seem to have missed is that fixed cost is not aligned to revenue so therefore is not the best solution for a startup.

The best solution for any startup is a pay as you go model.

OK, you are not charging your time, to this startup, but imaging you did as an accountant or consultant - review the market to find a cheap fixed cost accounting package - time taken lets say 3.5 hours @ £90 hour = £315
plus package = £85
= £400 upfront cost hitting the startup hard when it has no cash.

Or just go with monthly subscription, low cost, not contract £10/month, business folds in 12 month - cost just £120

 

[Alan]

Ah just invoicing ... then what is wrong with a word processor?

 

[Alan]

Even if you run for just 2-3 years before upgrading your accounting package

Sorry I was responding to your suggestion about paying as you go isn't business savvy for account packages .

 

[john1989]

Why not have a system that does invoicing and the bookkeeping?
Or does the business plan on having no costs to record?

 

[@aiteoconsulting]

A client of mine runs a free cloud based invoicing platform here:

https://fastinvoice.com/

You can upgrade to £4 / month if you want more functionality.

 

[kevin.doran]

I presume you'll be advising the start up to engage an accountant sooner rather than later? That's what any savvy business person would do of course

If so, why not speak to them and a) see what they recommend or b) see if they provide anything free of charge.

 

[Clinton]

Kevin, yes, he'll be using an accountant, but they couldn't immediately recommend any invoicing software because their smaller clients use online accounting services and pay by the month.

The other issue you seem to have missed is that fixed cost is not aligned to revenue so therefore is not the best solution for a startup.

Alan, you're still thinking in terms of large upfront costs, and I'll agree with you there. But if we talking £10 a month vs paying £100 to buy the software outright, I'm not excited about the per month option.

Word processing is one solution. Except that it would be handy to have totals for sales and (later) VAT at the end of the month/ quarter / year. But that's possible in Excel or Calc, isn't it? Just had a quick look and there seem to be some spreadsheet based solutions around. So thanks for the idea. I'll get him to check those out or even have a look myself.

I volunteer at local schools, run a maths club and stuff. There's much interest in one local sixth form to promote entrepreneurism. If I find a good solution for this lad's current requirements it may be useful at this school as well later i.e. saving records locally - school's server - rather than posting them in the cloud.

 

[ASAP Marketing]

We've used Word/Excel based invoicing systems at first and then moved on to AccountsPortal when the activity levels increased. The changeover between systems can be a hassle, but not too much effort if it corresponds with the new financial year.

 

[talkinpeace]

I produce my invoices on a word processor and then key them into VT in batches.
I use OpenOffice so its free

 

[Scalloway]

I have a spreadsheet set up on Google Drive. One sheet is customers, one sheet is invoices issued and the third is the invoice set up with formulas based on invoice numbers.

 

[Energise Accounting]

if you want a free online book-keeping system use capium it will do what you need.

 

[kevin.doran]

Have you considered the fact that doing things manually or in a piece of software your accountant doesn't use might result in higher accountancy fees? Certainly if a client came to me with records in Word/Excel over those in Clear Books the fees would be much higher. And if you opt to use a desktop piece of software with no regular accountant access it'll be much more difficult to spot mistakes as/when they're happening, again potentially resulting in higher fees.

I see your point re subscription but I do think it's perhaps a touch shortsighted.

 

[boring-friday]

Just use word/excel (or whatever the open office version is called)

£10 a month accounting software and a £100 a month accountant are the last thing a tiny startup needs, can worry about that when they're actually making money. Or the week before accounts are due

 

[john1989]

Just use word/excel (or whatever the open office version is called)

£100 a month accountant are the last thing a tiny startup needs, can worry about that when they're actually making money. Or the week before accounts are due

But they will still pay the same fee but will have missed out on a lot of advice, possibly costing them much more than the accountancy fee!

 

[boring-friday]

But they will still pay the same fee but will have missed out on a lot of advice, possibly costing them much more than the accountancy fee!

1. No they won't
2. If they don't even reach the end of year accounts stage which I assume a lot of startups don't they'll of saved themselves a lot of money
3. What advice can they get that they can't just as quickly asking on here?

 

[john1989]

1. Yes they will. The monthly fee represents the work of doing annual accounts and tax, the fee is just spread out over the year to spread the payments.
2. They will still have to submit accounts and tax returns to Companies House and HMRC up to cessation.
3. Tailored advice to their situation and business. This forum in no way substitutes professional advice.

 

[boring-friday]

1. Yes they will. The monthly fee represents the work of doing annual accounts and tax, the fee is just spread out over the year to spread the payments.
2. They will still have to submit accounts and tax returns to Companies House and HMRC up to cessation.
3. Tailored advice to their situation and business. This forum in no way substitutes professional advice.

Right I've changed my mind and wouldn't bother with a accountant atall, not until atleast registering for vat anyway.
I'd love to see your professional advice covering the £1000 annual cost for a startup in saved tax over any advice they can get here

 

[john1989]

Right I've changed my mind and wouldn't bother with a accountant atall, not until atleast registering for vat anyway.
I'd love to see your professional advice covering the £1000 annual cost for a startup in saved tax over any advice they can get here

What if the business is supplying exempt supplies and never has to register for VAT? Plenty of other tax planning opportunities could be available.

What if the business supplies out of scope supplies? It doesn't have to register for VAT but it may be beneficial to do so, and there may be other tax planning opportunities available.

Asking here will probably get an answer to the question. But have you asked the right question, have you missed something etc?

Anyway, it is all elementary because this is not what the OP asked and I'm talking to converted.

 

[Clinton]

Have you considered the fact that doing things manually or in a piece of software your accountant doesn't use might result in higher accountancy fees?

Er, not at all. At the end of the year he'll give the accountant a consolidated sales figure from the invoicing package, he won't be submitting a pile of paper invoices. It doesn't matter whether his invoicing software is the same as his accountant's.

I see your point re subscription but I do think it's perhaps a touch shortsighted.

I'll accept that for some businesses it makes a lot of sense.

If the nature of this business was different I might be asking questions about the ability of the software to expand to cover future growth, integrate with a CRM package, handle the VAT competently for export to both EU and non-EU exports, plug into payment gateways, handle US state taxes ... whatever.

In this case none of that is necessary. Certainly not at this stage and not based on his plans for the future.

What I'm not convinced about is that paying by the month is the best solution for all small businesses. In many cases business owners end up with subscription because that is the most heavilly marketed type of solution, not because it's the right one for them. Owners of small businesses don't always first carefully consider their needs and the available options ...or they lack the ability to do so.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

If its free you are after then it's a choice (IMO) between QuicKFile or Capium as mentioned above.

Both do invoicing and are cloud based. Capium also provide free payroll with their book-keeping software.

 

[adamdylan]

Clinton We are reading your gallant quest with great interest. (excuse me for a bad suggestion why not some old software from ebay before the cloudy days)
Please dont give up, good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[Clinton]

adamdylan, thanks. That wasn't a bad suggestion at all. In fact, there are some great looking packages being sold in eBay from as little as £1.99. Most are under £10. What's more amazing is that many seem to have features way above what the £10 per month packages offer!

All for a one off fee of £10 or £15. A few seem to have been around for a long time and have a large userbase (which is something else I like to see in addition to a support forum and regular software updates).

People if you're looking for simple, one-time cost, non-cloud based invoicing, or even fully fledged accounting packages, start with eBay, not Google!

I was going to settle for Easy Invoicing, particularly for its ability to import Amazon FBA's CSV files (and eBay's) - which is great for large volume, low value products - but I'm going to check out some of these eBay offers.

 

[Alan]

When I started out I used Express Invoicing / NCH free package http://www.nchsoftware.com/invoice/ and did accounting on libre office spread sheet.

It was sufficient. However the when I moved to a proper accounting system, I must say my business control increased and my effort decreased dramatically.

 

[Clinton]

Alan, I'm a qualified accountant, so you're preaching to the faithful about the merits of a good accounting package. The likes of Xero, for example, have come a long way and offer numerous conveniences and productivity tools.

But I'm beginning to suspect that the average small business owner is being conned by the subscription packages when there are so many good (or better) options available for a one off fee.... options which better match what they really need.

The subscription services, mostly cloud based, make the most money because of the huge, "excess" profit they make from spreading the cost and continuing to get paid long past fair value. They therefore have the most to spend on marketing and SEO and are more visible. That's why, I suspect, small businesses looking for invoicing / accounting software tend to end up in SaaS-land.

 

[Alan]

I'm not sure they are being conned, rather that technology has moved on and the public cloud is a viable business offering from performance / security and support.

The licenced software business model is a difficult one for software developers to sustain, especially in an area like accounting where regulations change rapidly. As a seller of software, gettting a one off fee and then having to support and improve a product is not viable. So they have to either have support subscriptions, or release paid upgrades on a regular basis to augment the fixed initial purchase, they can not rely on new sales to subsidise existing users.

As a qualified accountant, you should be able to follow what I'm saying about the software industry business model.

So anyone with a decent software product and decent support model would be insane to continue offering as a one off licence fee, and that is what you are finding.

The market has moved.

The costs are plus or minus a few quid, its not really a con, its the impact of evolving technology or what they call digital disruption.

 

[Clinton]

It depends on the business needs. With payroll and PAYE - definitely! The rules are complex and changing all the time. It's best to have someone else keep on top of it and update your software (or maybe you can use a 3rd party payroll service! I know a few of even those that are cheaper than some of the cloud subscriptions!)

Horses for courses. Many small business owners I know sit down at the end of the year to get their accounts in order. They aren't organised or up-to-date. They aren't doing weekly bank reconcilations. They're unlikely to be best served by the online monthly sub model and paying from month one when they are only going to be doing their accounts in month 13.

For the lad I'm helping there'll be very few purchase and other transactions. 2-3 stock purchases per year. No employees. The majority of the action is in the invoicing - high volume of low value products. People like him are not going to benefit from the "regular software updates" to adjust for changes to tax credits.

The accounting software should match the business model ... and the the skills/personality of the owner, not the convenience or bottom line of software manufacturers.

So anyone with a decent software product and decent support model would be insane to continue offering as a one off licence fee, and that is what you are finding.

That's not what I'm finding now that I'm looking outside of Google. I'm finding the exact opposite. That's why I'm advising small business owners to not jump head first into SaaS, but to speak with their accountants and consider whether a fixed one-time fee software will be a better match for them.

 

[myfairworld]

I was going to settle for Easy Invoicing, particularly for its ability to import Amazon FBA's CSV files (and eBay's) - which is great for large volume, low value products.

I can recommend Easy Invoicing on the grounds of long term use. My business produces a lot of long invoices for multiple items discounted at different rates. Easy Invoicing deals well with this and is simple and straightforward to use. They do produce 'upgrades' but you can continue using previous versions if you prefer i.e. you don't have to buy an enhanced version if it does not meet your needs at that time. There is a forum and customer service is good. It is not ring a Call Centre and get immediate help 24/7 sort of thing but you can make contact on a daily though restricted time basis or put a query on the forum and someone will soon be back to you. Couple of times I've wanted help I've been very impressed with the response, the lack of 24/7 is more than made up by the person you are talking to 'getting it' first time and offering appropriate help.

 

[Voicebooth]

We've just launched a new service for recurring billing and invoicing - https://www.billingbooth.com

It's more aimed at businesses that need to look after subscription customers and need a way of regularly invoicing monthly charges.

I did some work last year with integrating a customer's ordering portal with their billing engine, which was very telecoms orientated, and found that API integration was pretty poor it, so went about writing this service.

It's particularly good if you have a complicated customer structure, with different distributor/resellers in place with their own end users, as the service offers a hierarchical customer billing system. It also supports up to 20 customers for free, with different tiers of pricing for more.

Would welcome some feedback on it from members who are already using other services, as there's quite a lot on the roadmap but third-party opinions on what it's missing are always welcome.


Alvaro

 

[Mark Burchell]

Hi there!

I recently started self employment and didn't really want to go start subscriptions or paying for accounting programs just yet.

I also use Google drive and have tabs setups for Invoicing, Quotes and Cash book. Tons of free storage and a simple drag and drop system.

I've then downloaded an excel cash book, invoice and quote templates which shows your cash flow with annual turnover etc.
So far it's working great and I can't recommend Google Drive enough as it has googles own version of Word, Excel and powerpoint which seem to all be compatible with the microsoft counter parts which a couple of glitches here and there.

 

[Alan]

That's not what I'm finding now that I'm looking outside of Google. I'm finding the exact opposite.

It would be good to share your findings of the non SaaS products.