Driveway company help

[John walsh]

Hi we run a small driveway company specialising in tarmac, block paving & resin bound surfacing. Resin driveways are very popular the minute so we are looking to try push for more work in the resin. A friend is a manager at a Large local garden centre & has suggested I speak to the owner about using an area as a show site or setting up a display as an advert. I know a few other companies are doing this & it seems to work well for them. Does anyone know what sort of deal they will have. Will it be a commission based idea or just a weekly charge from the centre. I'm jut trying to work out a possible deal to put to the owner thanks john

 

[Dnallov]

There is no definite answer here; you know your business so you’ll have the best answer for your question.

I would suggest you don’t show your cards to that garden centre straight away. Submit a quote and see if he accepts that initial quote. If he does, then suggest a show site into conversation; you never know, he might say “sure, why not” and not mention a discount.

Work your way back from the above paragraph; for example, if he rejects the initial quote, apply a discount using a show site as a bargaining tool.

 

[John walsh]

Thanks for the reply but submit a quote for what

 

[tensales]

Driveways are the easiest product in the world to generate leads for. Just get a foot canvasser or do half a day yourself now and again. I can even give you a well tested script. Mock if you like but it worked for me many years ago when I was learning my trade and out prospecting for leads.

"hello, I'm xxxxx from xxxxx, (shove nice picture of driveway in their face before they get change to say anythin), were doing some work in the area in a couple of days, could we whiz round with the tape measure and tell you how much it would cost to do yours? Whats best morning /afternoon /evening?"
Cost of lead generation ZERO !

 

[MBE1]

Driveways are the easiest product in the world to generate leads for. Just get a foot canvasser or do half a day yourself now and again. I can even give you a well tested script. Mock if you like but it worked for me many years ago when I was learning my trade and out prospecting for leads.

"hello, I'm xxxxx from xxxxx, (shove nice picture of driveway in their face before they get change to say anythin), were doing some work in the area in a couple of days, could we whiz round with the tape measure and tell you how much it would cost to do yours? Whats best morning /afternoon /evening?"
Cost of lead generation ZERO !

As good a way as any, but there is always a lead generation cost, people do not work for free.

I would recommend canvassing around your recent installations, preferably just before and after they have been done, and you can use the fact you are in the area for an easy close.

 

[John walsh]

Thanks for the advice. I've thought about getting a canvasser but I wasn't sure wether it would be worth the cost. Do they usually work on a set wage or are they on a Comission basis

 

[tensales]

You can't really pay a salary as they just won't go to work. And you will be swamped with disingenuous applications from people who apply just to show that they have so they can claim their benefits. Anyone wan't to argue that point then put an an on indeed and watch the shower of s**t that comes in. To go out by their self every day needs a lot of self discipline to do a shitty job. Canvassers for large national companies would normally work in a highly motivated environment where they are part of a well managed team and set target driven goals, and set competitions etc.

Your best bet is to advertise for an experienced door can and hope for an old hat, someone that knows what to expect. Pay them either commission of your order value, or a set amount for leads booked or a bit of both, or pay on sat leads (ones you got to confirm and present, although if your not experienced in confirming leads it won't be fair to them as you will mess up their leads).

You might find recruiting and managing a door canvasser more difficult than to just do a bit yourself. But it is easier to book for that most products. If you find one thats good look after them.

 

[John walsh]

Have you any sort of idea what An average commission per order a canvasser would want

 

[tensales]

It needs to be worth their while. typically 10% of the net order value or a set amount per sale. You have to gauge it proportional to the result you get from it. Give them a fair chance to earn £500-£1000 pw depending on their attainment and hrs.

And remember what they do is skilled. Not everyone can do direct sales- thats why it pays well for those that can do it, and nothing for the large majority that can't. Which lends further as to why you should not pay a salary.

 

[MBE1]

Agree with tensales, try canvassing yourself to help decide the level of commission, a good door to door salesperson/canvasser can earn £1k per week or more, the average worker survives 3 months or less, so anyone who has done several years will have a good idea what to expect.

Find a good one and reward them well, they only earn if you do.

 

[roydmoorian]

Driveways are the easiest product in the world to generate leads for.

But you MUST come over professionally - No "We got some tarmac left over from a motorway job, begorrah"

 

[tensales]

But you MUST come over professionally - No "We got some tarmac left over from a motorway job, begorrah"

Thats what the traveling community sometimes say.. and then dig up your driveway same day to deprive you of any cancelation rights.

 

[John walsh]

Lol yes it's a hard stereotype to shake off in this line of work. The problem is getting a lead to go quote for a driveway doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get the job in fact a lot of people are just fishing for prices. Does the canvasser get paid per lead or for confirmed jobs ?

 

[MBE1]

Lol yes it's a hard stereotype to shake off in this line of work. The problem is getting a lead to go quote for a driveway doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get the job in fact a lot of people are just fishing for prices. Does the canvasser get paid per lead or for confirmed jobs ?

Per sale would be best if it is a salesperson, for a straight canvasser per lead or per pitched lead, but a much lower figure than if the guy actually sells the driveway as well.

 

[Redd]

Canvassing really depends on the area, I've employed lots and trying to get a good honest one is very hard work and even when you do the very best ones want top dollar! Basic plus commission and as stated above want over 1k a week and rightly so as its a hard slog and pretty skilled, what part of the country are you in?

 

[John walsh]

I'm in West Yorkshire. I see what you're saying & for that sort of money I'd prob be better spending it on the right advertising & save any headache

 

[MBE1]

I'm in West Yorkshire. I see what you're saying & for that sort of money I'd prob be better spending it on the right advertising & save any headache

What you are forgetting is a basic principle, with a canvasser or salesperson you only pay out if you get a sale, with advertising you pay out even if you get not a single reply.

Instead of worrying about how much they will earn consider how much you will earn if they do well, so if they earn £1k per week and you are earning £2k per week, where is the problem?

 

[John walsh]

Yes I fully understand the principle but as stated above they want a basic salary plus commission. So if they don't get a sale they still have to be paid a wage which is then paying for nothing in effect.

 

[tensales]

Yeh of course they do.. They fkn CAN'T!!. Tell Them.!! lol Asking for a basic is an admission that they can't sell. The nature of direct sales is that its 100% performance related. You eat what you kill. It's their responsibility to put money in their pocket not yours. There are plenty of people like that that will always want to whine about having a basic. Stay clear ! They are broke for a reason. They are sh*t. They will harm your business. If i took someone on and paid them a basic they would still have no money at the end of the week if they sold nothing as I would consider that gross misconduct (where selling is their core/only role) and not pay them.

As for advertising. Good luck. It depends what your thinking. Not all advertising rubbish of course, but don't fool yourself. Every add you place will generate 100 other sales calls from people trying to sell you more advertising. They too will want something for nothing. They will tell you how much exposure and how many thousands of people their adds get in front of. All BS. As soon as you recognise that behaviour you are being pitched and price conditioned. They will want you to part with just boll0cks amounts of made up upfront costs.

 

[MBE1]

How much would you normally charge for an average driveway, and what level of profit would you make? Do you offer finance etc?

Most direct sales operations simply tailor their prices to allow the business model to work, I have seen the exact same item sell for £2k or £5.7k, simply depends on the levels of sales, overheads etc.

If a good salesperson can make £500 per week on average, adjust your rates so that they can make £1-2k per week on commission only, whilst price is a consideration, it is not the only consideration in the decision making process. A good salesperson will recognise an opportunity instantly, and if it is possible to sell the right amounts then they will consider commission only.

In direct sales you are not looking for the average salesperson, the good ones are amongst the best you will ever meet and get paid accordingly, they are no-ones fools, make the deal right for all parties and it can work very well.

 

[John walsh]

Hi thanks for all your advice it's been a great a great help. The average driveway is £3000 & of that £1000 would be profit. We have the capabity to do 3 jobs a week if the work was there so it would pay to employ a good salesperson.

 

[MBE1]

So based on the above, you could try to get a salesperson to pitch at £3500-4000, and reward them at 10-15%, so just one driveway a week would earn them £350-600 per job. Have you ever tried canvassing yourself? How many jobs would you truly expect to get as an average?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

With so much bad practice in that industry I would think most people would not buy from a door to door salesperson, but simply look up a local company on either the web or local paper

Far to many cowboys in that market already and your questions do not inspire confidence

 

[John walsh]

I was initially thinking about a canvasser because I didn't think the a salesman would be able to sell a new driveway for £3/£4000 to someone just from knocking on there door & speaking to them for ten minutes. IVe never had any experience in this field but it seemed unlikely to me. I also worried that the salesman wouldn't have enough knowledge about the product to answer any questions the customer had. IBe never tried canvassing myself but it's not something that I'm confident doing but I would think that a salesman should be able to get 2 jobs per week

 

[John walsh]

With so much bad practice in that industry I would think most people would not buy from a door to door salesperson, but simply look up a local company on either the web or local paper

Far to many cowboys in that market already and your questions do not inspire confidence

My questions about not having any experience in door canvassing mean that I must be a cowboy ?

 

[MBE1]

With so much bad practice in that industry I would think most people would not buy from a door to door salesperson, but simply look up a local company on either the web or local paper

Far to many cowboys in that market already and your questions do not inspire confidence

It is quite normal to canvass around existing installations, any firm not doing so would be idiots IMO, any potentially interested clients would be able to see the quality of the work and talk to the homeowner easily enough.

I'm sure there is bad practice around as in all trades, but simply contacting a company with a website or advert does not mean you will get a good company either. Hopefully the OP would have plenty of good testimonials, yorkshire folk tend to be very savvy.

 

[Alan]

I'm sure some people would buy on the door step, just like they do with cold calls.

Personally, I would never buy from a door to door salesman, it is just a negative signal to me.

 

[tensales]

only an muppet would try to sell a driveway on the doorstep. The idea is to close them on an appointment /survey not a sale. Then go back and pitch your product

 

[lukek1]

Quite a good read this thread.
I don't know if you'd like my opinion as I'm not as experienced In business as everyone else on this site. Anyway I'm going to give it. In my eyes in the driveway industry if someone wants a good job doing they will look on google, local booklet (not sure if your area has one) yellow pages or ask a friend. These people are not fishing they want the job doing. People who will buy from canvassers only want a cheap job because like some one as mentioned travellers do this buy sending there youths out door to door and to be fair I think it works for them but they charge the lowest of prices. Obviously not doing satisfactory work.

I mean I might be wrong look at windows and conservatory's people buy from door to door salesman. I personally think times have changed though and the internet as took over because people hear about cowboys etc. So they like to see peoples work and check them out before making a decision to even phone them

 

[tensales]

You can't print some business cards, put an add in the yellow pages and think you have a business. Its for that mentality that so many businesses fail.

 

[lukek1]

You can't print some business cards, put an add in the yellow pages and think you have a business. Its for that mentality that so many businesses fail.

This bloke has a business already though so I'm not sure what you mean by that ? He was asking on pushing forward a certain product which is up and coming in the industry

 

[MBE1]

In my eyes in the driveway industry if someone wants a good job doing they will look on google, local booklet (not sure if your area has one) yellow pages or ask a friend. These people are not fishing they want the job doing. People who will buy from canvassers only want a cheap job

I mean I might be wrong look at windows and conservatory's people buy from door to door salesman. I personally think times have changed though and the internet as took over because people hear about cowboys etc. So they like to see peoples work and check them out before making a decision to even phone them

The people who call a company also want a cheap job doing, it is down to the company and client to decide whether they wish to do a cheap job or a value for money job. Never met anyone who wishes to over pay in 40 odd years of selling.

D2D sales and canvassing is simply a method of lead generation, no different to the internet, papers or large posters etc. It is simply generating the initial interest, everything else is the same barr one thing, if the company is good and fairly priced, by self generating the leads they will often be the only company quoting for the work.

ANYTHING can be sold using these methods. It's been 20 odd years since I sold a driveway, my best deal on a canvassed deal was a £24k driveway. The guy already had four other quotes and I was not the cheapest by far. ANYTHING can be sold by any method IMO.

 

[John walsh]

Thanks guys for the replies it much appreciated. MBE1 if you have experience in this field what would you say in your opinion would be the best way to go about it. Would it be to have a canvasser going out getting bookings for me to visit at a later date or for a salesman to try sell the product there & then.

 

[MBE1]

Very occassionaly you could get a sale there and then, but 99% of the time the first goal is to get an appointment to visit at a later date, most clients would expect this and be more comfortable with it.

Nothing wrong with closing on the 1st visit though. You have a huge advantage as the owner of the company in closing on the day. I don't have massive experience in driveways, but I have plenty of experience in direct sales B2C.

 

[Redd]

John, I run a pretty successful driveway company and have various routes to market, I studied this industry long and hard before I started and also sold the product for Anglian before which involved door canvassing, I'm very coy about sharing these routes as I'm sure my competitors would jump on them if they knew however if you want to pm me your number or email I can share with you, we do over 100 installs a year for a lot more profit than 1k, I think at 1k your pretty cheap and I presume your not vat registered so even cheaper, build confidence and value and you can charge more, never ever cut corners like the rest and have a great focus on after sales and they will come back, I had a problem on a driveway we fitted over a year ago in September there, customer called with a problem as his son had crashed into this dwarf wall we build, it just so happened we were working not to far from it, it was fixed within 2 hours free of charge, things like that are worth doing. They breed confidence as people talk and a reputable driveway company is rare these days, I ain't had nothing back from doing that fix yet but it will come I'm sure of it, the amount of Cowboys in this industry is incredible. There's your usp right there, do it right first time, if anything does go wrong you must fix it asap

Back to canvassing and I agree with above, NOT canvassing your area of install is madness however there's also nothing stopping you canvassing an area where you done an install 6 months ago!

Canvassing has changed 10 fold since 10 years ago, people just don't trust it especially our industry and it doesn't breed confidence, but there are ways to do it. however after all that you or the canvasser need to be good at selling, anyway by all means drop me a pm, I could give you 3 or 4 routes which I guarantee you will add 100k to your turnover.

All that said though by doing what we do will obviously make you vat registered which in turn will double your workload as you will be an additional 10% more expensive overnight with vat meaning less sales, I was selling 7-8 out of 10 before I went VR now I'm about half that so have to do more lead generation and more appointments but it's worth it.

 

[Redd]

One more thing is stay hooked in to this forum, the knowledge on here is incredible and has helped me ten fold, I only started business 3 years ago but I think I've read every post on here lol

 

[MBE1]

Congrats to Redd BTW, your testimonials are what all companies should be aspiring too get, well done, nice to see a quality company doing well.

 

[Redd]

Thanks very much MBE1

 

[AllUpHere]

John.

Are you still looking for info regarding the possible deal with the garden centre, or are you past that now? I notice the thread has gone off on a tangent, but wasn't sure whether to drag it back.

Driveway work is a gift from a marketing point of view. There are many ways to ensure you keep the work coming in as fast as you can complete it. However, in my opinion, canvassing areas door to door is far from the best method.

 

[John walsh]

Thanks redd for your help & offer of advice & thanks to everyone else that has commented. Yes AllUpHere I'm still considering going with the show site at the garden centre because it's a very busy place & if it's not too expensive it would be a good source of local work & give us a bit of of local credibility.