£16 per click

[GoldenLeads]

You might want to rework that thesis, you've made some massive assumptions, that just don't stack up.

Any arguments ?

As I've said countless times, visitor value (how much you make from a visitor) is the most important thing in adwords. (Or, indeed, in any form of paid advertising.)

Steve

That's correct, but if we assume that people bidding for the same keyword are in the same business, same geo/local area and provide same service, then the price range is not very wide.
So it's, how much you can make from each visitor + how well is your website converting

 

[Formations Factory]

I would recommend you to make use of display remarketing and Adwords in-search remarketing to reduce advertising costs. In-search remarketing would retarget people who have already clicked on your ad. This strategy worked really well for us.

 

[NickGrogan]

Any arguments ?



That's correct, but if we assume that people bidding for the same keyword are in the same business, same geo/local area and provide same service, then the price range is not very wide.
So it's, how much you can make from each visitor + how well is your website converting

"If the third guy is smart he will rise the price of the clicks even further and thus eliminate his competitors."

You are saying that eventually all keywords will eventually have only 1 bidder, the site that converts best will drive all others out. This will never happen as google displays at least 3 ads. Just because site A converts well and can pay £100 per click, doesn't mean that site B will stop advertising, they'll pay a lower rate and appear second or third.

"if we assume that people bidding for the same keyword are in the same business, same geo/local area and provide same service, then the price range is not very wide."

Another massive assumption, take SEO, same service, companies all in Edinburgh, massive variation in price and profitability.

You have produced a theory based on assumptions, but a quick search or trial shows it's wrong.

 

[claus1860]

Check out insurance, I've seen over £250 a click for car insurance keywords.

Really??? Per click? That's unbelievable. Keep in mind that even with a 10% conversion which is incredible good a sale of a car insurance would cost £2500. That's sounds very high. What's the average car insurance premium in the UK? I'd guess £500-1,000
I read on wordstream that insurance clicks are around $50.

 

[GoldenLeads]

"If the third guy is smart he will rise the price of the clicks even further and thus eliminate his competitors."

You are saying that eventually all keywords will eventually have only 1 bidder, the site that converts best will drive all others out. This will never happen as google displays at least 3 ads. Just because site A converts well and can pay £100 per click, doesn't mean that site B will stop advertising, they'll pay a lower rate and appear second or third.

"if we assume that people bidding for the same keyword are in the same business, same geo/local area and provide same service, then the price range is not very wide."

Another massive assumption, take SEO, same service, companies all in Edinburgh, massive variation in price and profitability.

You have produced a theory based on assumptions, but a quick search or trial shows it's wrong.

If there are 30 bidders, there are space only for 3 and without having a good converting website/ earning more per sale it's impossible to compete, end of story.

 

[ZeroDouble]

In theory, couldn't you just set up 2 simple additional websites, with 2 different adwords accounts, and eliminate the competition that way by raising all your bids above what they can afford?

 

[NickGrogan]

If there are 30 bidders, there are space only for 3 and without having a good converting website/ earning more per sale it's impossible to compete, end of story.

There are more than 3 slots, conversion rates are not the only parameter that matters. its possible to compete in a number of ways.

Search insurance for example, how many ads do you see?

Are the ones at the top the best converting or just have the biggest budget?

As I said your theory makes huge assumptions which don't hold up in real live.

End of story.

 

[GoldenLeads]

There are more than 3 slots, conversion rates are not the only parameter that matters. its possible to compete in a number of ways.

Search insurance for example, how many ads do you see?

Are the ones at the top the best converting or just have the biggest budget?

As I said your theory makes huge assumptions which don't hold up in real live.

End of story.

How many click do you get when you are in top 3 vs when you are on the "right sidebar" ? Really, no one who used adwords with a sensible budget would said what you just said.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

That's correct, but if we assume that people bidding for the same keyword are in the same business, same geo/local area and provide same service, then the price range is not very wide.
So it's, how much you can make from each visitor + how well is your website converting

How much you make from a visitor is dependent on how well your website is converting. (It's conversion rate x value of a customer.)

Also, just because 2 people are selling similar services doesn't mean:

(A) they need to charge similar prices,

and

(B) that they have equally good back ends to their business. One business might treat each new customer as a one-off sale. Their competitor may up-sell, re-sell, ask for referrals...

Steve

 

[Shopclicks]

Car Insurance was mentioned earlier. I Googled 'car insurance' here in Australia and what I see is exactly what I expected.

The company paying top dollar for the number 1 spot sits 5th on the organic result. And the company in the number 1 spot in organic results doesn't pay to advertise on the page. The companies between #2 & #4 in organic results all use PPC as well.

The company that sits 5th in organic results and pays for the top position has nothing resembling optimisation on their landing page. Big budget and nothing for seo. How foolish.

 

[NickGrogan]

How many click do you get when you are in top 3 vs when you are on the "right sidebar" ? Really, no one who used adwords with a sensible budget would said what you just said.

Your thesis, as you've explained it is that the top converting website will be able to pay for PPC than any other website and so will become the only website advertising for a particular keyword.

That thesis is wrong on many levels, as has been explained and shown many times in reality.

It relies on a huge number of assumptions, most of which are false.

Can you share one competitive keyword where your thesis has proven correct?

 

[GoldenLeads]

Your thesis, as you've explained it is that the top converting website will be able to pay for PPC than any other website and so will become the only website advertising for a particular keyword.

That thesis is wrong on many levels, as has been explained and shown many times in reality.

It relies on a huge number of assumptions, most of which are false.

Can you share one competitive keyword where your thesis has proven correct?

I hate when people uses strawman arguments.

Where did I stated that "so will become the only website advertising for a particular keyword." ?

It hasn't been explained, please quote or show me the evidence of it being explained.

 

[NickGrogan]

I've written thesis on a PPC topic and did quite a lot of research, all I can say that everything ends up of how good your website converts. Example: if it shows lets say £20 a click, then that £20 is if you want to take first position out of 3, and it usually costs 30%-60% less in most cases, so that's lets say around £14 in reality, if you want to be the guy who gets most of the clicks.

Now imagine this: 3 competitors in the same niche are selling the exact same service and all 3 set around the same price of ~£14 per click. The only problem is those 2 websites have a bounce rate of 70%, the third one of 30%, and the third website converts 50% better than the first 2.

What does that mean ? It means that the first 2 guys will be eliminated pretty soon, because they have to spend x2 more money to get 1 sale then the third guy. If the third guy is smart he will rise the price of the clicks even further and thus eliminate his competitors.

You said it right here. (underlining added for emphasis.)

For an example of strawman look at your own quote here...

"How many click do you get when you are in top 3 vs when you are on the "right sidebar" ? Really, no one who used adwords with a sensible budget would said what you just said."

 

[GoldenLeads]

I said eliminate, not "so will become the only website advertising for a particular keyword."

By eliminate I meant, that they will get 80%+ of all the paid clicks, thus traffic - sales - money. Open spyfu for any keyword that has more than 20 competitors, check the history, and you will see the trends, that my thesis is 100% correct, that's why I received and A.

"For an example of strawman look at your own quote here..."

"How many click do you get when you are in top 3 vs when you are on the "right sidebar" ? Really, no one who used adwords with a sensible budget would said what you just said."

That wasn't a strawman, I didn't distorted what you said, that was a statement, because what you said was something that a person who used adwords for more than a few months, wouldn't of said.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I said eliminate, not "so will become the only website advertising for a particular keyword."

If you "eliminate" your competitors, you remove them entirely.

As I suggested earlier in this thread, the word you should have used was "leapfrog".

Steve

 

[Shopclicks]

By eliminate I meant, that they will get 80%+ of all the paid clicks, thus traffic - sales - money.

Another grand assumption right there.

 

[NickGrogan]

Ok, so now you've switched to ad hominem attacks instead?

And are redefining words to suit your argument too? Eliminate has a meaning, please use words correctly.

Your thesis is wrong in the real world, the fact that you got an A at school/college/uni doesn't change that.

You have made a series of assumptions which don't stand up to any level of testing.

If you are correct, please give an example search term where your thesis is proven.

 

[GoldenLeads]

If you "eliminate" your competitors, you remove them entirely.

As I suggested earlier in this thread, the word you should have used was "leapfrog".

Steve

You are correct. By eliminate I meant that 5~ advertisers have a feast using Google adwords and all the rest are having peanuts.

Ok, so now you've switched to ad hominem attacks instead?

And are redefining words to suit your argument too? Eliminate has a meaning, please use words correctly.

Your thesis is wrong in the real world, the fact that you got an A at school/college/uni doesn't change that.

You have made a series of assumptions which don't stand up to any level of testing.

If you are correct, please give an example search term where your thesis is proven.

check 1 year trends for "seo new york", "travel agency insurance" or any other keyword that is targeted and has traffic

It's a self evident fact that:
5~ advertisers have a feast using Google adwords and all the rest are having peanuts.

 

[GoldenLeads]

GoldenLeads said: ↑
"By eliminate I meant, that they will get 80%+ of all the paid clicks, thus traffic - sales - money."

Another grand assumption right there.

WHAT ? Are you kidding me ? It seems that people here only talk and don't actually make money doing what they're preaching. I'm done with this thread.

 

[NickGrogan]

You are correct. By eliminate I meant that 5~ advertisers have a feast using Google adwords and all the rest are having peanuts.



check 1 year trends for "seo new york", "travel agency insurance" or any other keyword that is targeted and has traffic

It's a self evident fact that:
5~ advertisers have a feast using Google adwords and all the rest are having peanuts.

Oh, so now you're moving the goalposts instead, We've gone from one will eliminate all, to the top 5 making more than the others.

Do you have any evidence that the top 5 advertisers for any key word are making more from their ads than anyone else? Or is it just another one of your assumptions.

The top 5 advertisers are spending more than anyone else, that is true, that they are making more money than anyone else is a completely different statement. One that you have no basis for saying.

 

[NickGrogan]

GoldenLeads said: ↑
"By eliminate I meant, that they will get 80%+ of all the paid clicks, thus traffic - sales - money."

Another grand assumption right there.

WHAT ? Are you kidding me ? It seems that people here only talk and don't actually make money doing what they're preaching. I'm done with this thread.

Do you have any evidence that the top link gets 80%+ of clicks?

And as for a linear relationship between traffic - sales - money, anyone with experience knows that's not true.

 

[GoldenLeads]

Do you have any evidence that the top link gets 80%+ of clicks?

And as for a linear relationship between traffic - sales - money, anyone with experience knows that's not true.

NOT TOP LINK, but TOP 3, can't you read ? In this case its is, because you couldn't be in top 3 if you didn't got ROI = sales and money to afford top3 + I gave you an undeniable examples.

I'm really done with this thread, there is no point in wasting my precious time and arguing with people like you. You can think that you are right, if that will make you feel better.

 

[NickGrogan]

Where did you say the top 3 links get 80%+? You didn't, you said it when you were arguing about what eliminate means. When we there talking about one advertiser versus 2 others.

Now suddenly you've gone from 1 to 5 and back to 3 again.

Lots of companies have top 3 listings without a direct ROI and you gave no examples of actual companies and how profitable their adverts are, because you have none. What you gave were some random words.

 

[Shopclicks]

NOT TOP LINK, but TOP 3, can't you read ?

I don't think that's the problem here.