Why do we give Britain such a good kicking all the time?

[sirearl]

More evidence of why we are all becoming dumber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics

 

[Excel Expert]

That is not evidence of anything. It is a write up of a scientific debate on a subject that cant be measured accurately. As a result it is completely unproven.

 

[sirearl]

That is not evidence of anything. It is a write up of a scientific debate on a subject that cant be measured accurately. As a result it is completely unproven.

The scientific evidence is overwhelming.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...hannel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Q1WYU72kHsXX8ge07IG4BQ

 

[Excel Expert]

And now a Google search is overwhelming scientific evidence? Really?

Instead of searching for "People are getting dumber" search for "People are getting smarter" and you get 26 times more results. Neither search proves a thing though.

Without clicking on any of the links I can see phrases like "study suggests" and "provocative new study". Again not evidence, its a study.

As mentioned above we neither have an accurate way of measuring intelligence or a consistent way of judging intelligence. Comparing results today with results from yesterday is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[MASSEY]

if you are a bit technical-minded, you will see all the inventions of 1800-1965, apart from electricity, were lousy inventions. It was some thing there for any one with a bit of technically minded to get it. Recent hi tech inventions on all fields needed a brains a lot superior to the time of 1800-1965.

The size of the brain would have been the same. You can argue that people were not as well educated or that very few people were working to achieve something and were not getting enough help from like minded people slowing invention down.

Someone from 1 or 200 years ago being born today would have the equal capacity to learn what we know today.

 

[sirearl]

if you are a bit technical-minded, you will see all the inventions of 1800-1965, apart from electricity, were lousy inventions. It was some thing there for any one with a bit of technically minded to get it. Recent hi tech inventions on all fields needed a brains a lot superior to the time of 1800-1965.

I think you will find that apart from medical science most of the so called inventions have been toys since 1965.

 

[Excel Expert]

Tim Berners-Lee might have something to say about that.

 

[sirearl]

Tim Berners-Lee might have something to say about that.

Not a lot though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

 

[Swisaw]

The size of the brain would have been the same. You can argue that people were not as well educated or that very few people were working to achieve something and were not getting enough help from like minded people slowing invention down.

Someone from 1 or 200 years ago being born today would have the equal capacity to learn what we know today.

Precisely precisely, that is what exactly I mean. Today's brains are better trained, massively informed, almost free from cultural barriers and more logical. This takes us back to the question if more babies become burdens or valuable future national assets. In my view each baby born is am asset and contributes to the national economy from the moment of his or her birth, and if each baby by the time becomes an adult, 16, taught or trained to compete to exploit his or her environment as money and business minded seeking his/her selfish interest this baby will become a big tax payer and national asset generator. A full new generation like that could be cultivated to end poverty and reliance on welfare.

 

[Swisaw]

I think you will find that apart from medical science most of the so called inventions have been toys since 1965.

Toys are designs, not inventions.

 

[Swisaw]

Where do i find the most muslims and the most polish / eastern europeans? Not in the posh parts, some in the middle of the road parts but most in the piss poor parts. But hey, at least they have free or discounted housing.

OK they get some crumbs, sorry I mean welfare benefits. What they can do with these little lousy benefits they get? It is not enough to send it to their relatives abroad, it is not enough to save it. they have to spend all of it. It seems they are hundreds of thousands, which means they get some thing like a billion pound welfare benefits each week. Each week they spend a billion pound welfare benefits on goods and services to fire the economy to produce goods and services to generate a lot of national Assets. Consequently all posh parts become posher while they stay the same in their piss poor parts. Take them out of the equation, the economy loses a billion pound fuel and could choke to death. You don't want that, do you? Because if you take them out of the equation you may end up at the same piss poor parts.

 

[Swisaw]

You are referring to Babbage's Difference Engine in the Science Museum.

Far from the first computer. If you think of a computer as "data in, data out" the Sextant could be considered a computer and that has been around centuries. There are also the automated mills that ran of punch cards.

If you think of a computer as something that could be programmed Babbage was inspired by the works of Pascal and a few others.

The field of computing is a great example of one generation building on the knowledge of the previous generation. This does not mean we are seeing leaps in IQ.

People like Pascal, Babbage and many other geniuses may have had above average IQ's, but that happens in all generations

But babbage's machine was a real computer as we know it today. Do you know the first money slot machine was made over two or three thousand years ago? do you know the origin of the holly water in the church evolved through the invention of the first money slot machine in Egypt around the time of Cleopatra to defraud worshipers. The high priest of Alexendria was in financial problems because worshipers were not contributing enough. One of the talented person of that time suggested to him the idea of holly water through a system similar to today's slot machine. So this talented person created a money slot machine put a the worship places. When a worshiper put some money into it, the machine delivered some holly water. The more money he put in, the more holly water he got.

 

[Excel Expert]

Not a lot though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Tim Berners-Lee was the inventor of the web not the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web

They are two very different things which the American historians are keen to skim over.

Think of the internet as the road and the web as a car. The road is mostly useless without the car to make use of it. It was the invention of the web that resulted in us all using the web everyday.

 

[Excel Expert]

Precisely precisely, that is what exactly I mean. Today's brains are better trained, massively informed, almost free from cultural barriers and more logical. This takes us back to the question if more babies become burdens or valuable future national assets. In my view each baby born is am asset and contributes to the national economy from the moment of his or her birth, and if each baby by the time becomes an adult, 16, taught or trained to compete to exploit his or her environment as money and business minded seeking his/her selfish interest this baby will become a big tax payer and national asset generator. A full new generation like that could be cultivated to end poverty and reliance on welfare.

While kids are kids, they basically cost the state and their parents a heap of cash. There is no way around that, which means we are investing in them and the more we invest in them the more productive they will be in the future. (100% with you on that bit).

The problem is the need for investment is growing too quickly for us to finance today. For as long as I can remember there has been less and less money for education and health services but yet we are piling in more people that need educating and looking after. If we had the money to invest in that today then I would agree that would be great, but we simply don't.

It is like having a low wage and investing in a £500,000 mortgage. Sure you will have a nice house at the end of it but you wont be able to afford eat any time soon and you will probably hit one of life's bad patches and go bust first.

100% personal opinion this bit - I also think it is a very big ask of the eduction system to teach kids work ethics if they go home to mum and dad sitting at home and living on benefits. Kids look at what their parents do far more than their teachers.

 

[MASSEY]

OK they get some crumbs, sorry I mean welfare benefits. What they can do with these little lousy benefits they get?

Well i happen to think free or discounted housing is a bit better than lousy.

It is not enough to send it to their relatives abroad,

I dread to think how much of our currency gets transferred to Poland each year .

I've been part of property refurbishments let to eastern europeans, polish in particular. They can afford to send money home, and do, because they live 10 to a room like pigs in shit and eat smart price food

it is not enough to save it. they have to spend all of it. It seems they are hundreds of thousands, which means they get some thing like a billion pound welfare benefits each week. Each week they spend a billion pound welfare benefits on goods and services to fire the economy to produce goods and services to generate a lot of national Assets. Consequently all posh parts become posher while they stay the same in their piss poor parts. Take them out of the equation, the economy loses a billion pound fuel and could choke to death. You don't want that, do you? Because if you take them out of the equation you may end up at the same piss poor parts.

The UK pays tens of billions of pounds in interest on debt each year. I am pretty sure that the government would not be reforming the benefits system if they thought like you did.

 

[MASSEY]

Precisely precisely, that is what exactly I mean. Today's brains are better trained, massively informed, almost free from cultural barriers and more logical. This takes us back to the question if more babies become burdens or valuable future national assets. In my view each baby born is am asset and contributes to the national economy from the moment of his or her birth, and if each baby by the time becomes an adult, 16, taught or trained to compete to exploit his or her environment as money and business minded seeking his/her selfish interest this baby will become a big tax payer and national asset generator. A full new generation like that could be cultivated to end poverty and reliance on welfare.

I don't think our economy in its current form can facilitate all these extra people. I recall hearing how they upped the age limit in which you could leave school a few years ago, which delayed no doubt many tens of thousands of kids from entering the labour market and probably helped the tories to cook the employment figures.

More people are in part time work than ever before and zero hours contracts are all people seem to talk about these days.

If we had an aging population then it would no doubt be a good idea to encourage women to have children in the longer term, but i think we have the youngest populations in Europe, and one of the biggest. I think the UK is in a bit of a stalemate with its population.

 

[Excel Expert]

I dread to think how much of our currency gets transferred to Poland each year .

I've been part of property refurbishments let to eastern europeans, polish in particular. They can afford to send money home, and do, because they live 10 to a room like pigs in **** and eat smart price food

Ladies and gentleman I think with that highly racist comment we get to true heart of a UKIP supporter.

 

[sirearl]

Ladies and gentleman I think with that highly racist comment we get to true heart of a UKIP supporter.

Like many things there are half truths .

The average age of immigrants is apparently 25 hence one would think that in certain areas of London and other large expensive cities there will be areas where massey's statements may hold true.

 

[Excel Expert]

I have no doubt that there are Polish people living ten to a flat and eating budget food. I have no doubt that people from all races doing the same.

Massey is automatically assuming that these people are living in this way out of choice. I'm presuming Massey's clients are the landlords. Perhaps it is the landlords over renting a building or deliberately turning a blind eye to over crowding? Perhaps its because the UK has not been the benefits dream to immigrants as some would have us believe and they have been cornered in to desperate situations? How do we know someone living in these conditions is able to afford to eat properly let alone send money home?

Maybe Massey is seeing evidence of people being taken advantage of by unscrupulous landlords and rather than helping them he is blaming them?

He has accused a race of people of living like pigs just to export money, without any facts is just prejudicial racism.

 

[Swisaw]

they live 10 to a room like pigs in ****

10 in a room or 10 is your IQ score

 

[simon field]

This right here is what is wrong in this country if you ask me (and nobody has!)

Massey has described a scenario which he is aware of, and has rightly stated that the people involved in this case are Polish.

If he had just stated "I know of some people living like pigs 10 to a room" then that's OK.

The minute he describes them properly - ie they are Polish people - he is accused of racism.

This is exactly what I mean by racism being brought about by the very people who say they're trying to 'stamp it out'.

I bought a pencil the other day with a golliwog eraser on the end which vibrates comically when you flick it. If that makes me racist then so be it. I personally don't need to give it such deep thought

 

[Nuno]

I bought a pencil the other day with a golliwog eraser on the end which vibrates comically when you flick it. If that makes me racist then so be it. I personally don't need to give it such deep thought

Golly! Where did you get that?

 

[Excel Expert]

When you judge a whole race on unproven facts it is prejudicial and racist. That is basically what racism is. Massey has deliberately (in my opinion) made it about Polish people as a whole rather than a particular group of Polish people.

There are races of all kinds that live under these conditions, not just the Polish. There are British families that live in these conditions because of very dodgy landlords.

If Massey had said black people live in filth, there would be an outcry on here. What is the difference between black and Polish in this sense?

If you single out a race for abuse based on the race alone then that is racism.

 

[sirearl]

I don't in the slightest blame immigrants fron eastern europe flocking to the UK as the average wage in Poland is 500 quid a month and a lot less in other countries.

But please don't try and tell me they come here for the weather.

 

[Excel Expert]

The vast majority will be here to earn a decent wage and improve their standards of living. From my experience of working Eastern Europe there is a high likely hood that they will be sending some money home for their family members. There tends to be far more internal family support in Eastern Europe than we are used to in the UK.

That doesn't mean they are going to live 10 to a flat and live on bargain pot noodles just to maximise the money they send home. Some get trapped by unscrupulous landlords, some have unscrupulous employers take advantage of them. Some simply cant find work.

But to suggest this is the norm for Polish immigrants is nonsense. With the number of Polish people we have in this country that would mean people living in these conditions on just about every street in the UK.

 

[simon field]

When you judge a whole race on unproven facts it is prejudicial and racist. That is basically what racism is. Massey has deliberately (in my opinion) made it about Polish people as a whole rather than a particular group of Polish people.

There are races of all kinds that live under these conditions, not just the Polish. There are British families that live in these conditions because of very dodgy landlords.

If Massey had said black people live in filth, there would be an outcry on here. What is the difference between black and Polish in this sense?

If you single out a race for abuse based on the race alone then that is racism.

Sorry Carl I couldn't disagree more.

The ones Massey was describing were Polish. There's nothing sinister about saying that.

He hasn't mentioned a 'whole race', as you put it.

Lots of people commit crimes, but if I get mugged by a bunch of black guys in London and the police want a description - what am I going to say?

Your reasoning seems to suggest I should avoid mentioning their race.

If Massey knew a bunch of black people who were living in filth, are you seriously suggesting that he / we shouldn't be allowed to describe them properly?

 

[simon field]

Golly! Where did you get that?

From that well known hotbed of white supremacy, Coltishall Pharmacy

 

[Excel Expert]

"I dread to think how much of our currency gets transferred to Poland each year .

I've been part of property refurbishments let to eastern europeans, polish in particular. They can afford to send money home, and do, because they live 10 to a room like pigs in **** and eat smart price food"

That last sentence, "They" is used instead of Polish, he hasnt talked about tenants up to this point so "They" can only apply to the Polish people he was talking about.

It has nothing to do with mention race. If he had said he had worked in buildings where Polish residents had trashed the place then fare enough. But he was talking about the Polish's ability to send home money home not about specific tenants.

In your scenario it would be akin to calling all blacks muggers because you got mugged by one black criminal. There is nothing wrong with describing someone as black or Polish, there is a problem when you associate traits with a whole race without evidence or even evidence of the true cause. As far as we know those tenants could very well be victims of dodgy employers or landlords.

 

[MASSEY]

I have no doubt that there are Polish people living ten to a flat and eating budget food. I have no doubt that people from all races doing the same.

My main point is that in general immigrants and areas that have been taken over by immigrants are by enlarge poor areas. So much for them making us wealthier as the labour party seem to insist.

I have nothing against poles, we even employ a couple on and off (one of which doesn't speak any English and has lived here for years ) their skills are a bit hit and miss but they are decent, hard working people. Nothing against them.

Massey is automatically assuming that these people are living in this way out of choice. I'm presuming Massey's clients are the landlords. Perhaps it is the landlords over renting a building or deliberately turning a blind eye to over crowding?

We used to do work for a lot of landlords but we seldom do now because they are mostly tight arses who can't afford us.

Perhaps its because the UK has not been the benefits dream to immigrants as some would have us believe and they have been cornered in to desperate situations? How do we know someone living in these conditions is able to afford to eat properly let alone send money home?

Poles are sending home £3,000,000,000 a year apparently.

I think this is why many overcrowd, which leads to landlords having their property ruined.

Obviously i don't know what every polish person in Bham gets up to, but they mostly live in poor areas, have loads of kids and get benefits. I've never come across a polish person working in a well paying job ever and there's meant to be half a million of them over here. Go to warehouses and factories and you'll find plenty.

He has accused a race of people of living like pigs just to export money, without any facts is just prejudicial racism.

I confess my use of language was bit troll'ish, i can't help it lately.

 

[MASSEY]

I don't in the slightest blame immigrants fron eastern europe flocking to the UK as the average wage in Poland is 500 quid a month and a lot less in other countries.

But please don't try and tell me they come here for the weather.

They don't which is why so many left and went back to the motherland when the economy took a turn for the worst.

 

[MASSEY]

Sorry Carl I couldn't disagree more.

The ones Massey was describing were Polish. There's nothing sinister about saying that.

He hasn't mentioned a 'whole race', as you put it.

Lots of people commit crimes, but if I get mugged by a bunch of black guys in London and the police want a description - what am I going to say?

Your reasoning seems to suggest I should avoid mentioning their race.

If Massey knew a bunch of black people who were living in filth, are you seriously suggesting that he / we shouldn't be allowed to describe them properly?

I don't think carl was being quite as extreme as you put it, but i do agree with your sentiment. It is hard to know what to say these days incase of offence. I don't think my UKIP avatar helps.

 

[Nuno]

We have a street near us I used to call ASBO Avenue, full of lowlife English. Over the last couple of years it has been populated (it's all rental) by people from Eastern Europe.

No more rubbish strewn across pavements. No more drunken screaming matches in the street. No more feral kids breaking into cars. Windows and cars cleaned. People in clean clothes. Clean people. People who say or nod "Good Morning", people with a work ethic and self pride.

They work hard, they send money home but they are a positive addition to the area.

Just saying; there are always two sides and I've seen mine but only heard scare stories about overcrowded slums full of Eastern Europeans.

 

[Swisaw]

[quot
Poles are sending home £3,000,000,000 a year apparently.[/quote]
That is not possible.

I think this is why many overcrowd, which leads to landlords having their property ruined.

Poor landlords!!! my heart bleeds for them. This careless polish people force themselves into accommodation rooms, each ten of them take a room and damage it.
Just wait until I report them to Nigel Farage to give them a piece of his mind.

I've never come across a polish person working in a well paying job ever and there's meant to be half a million of them over here. Go to warehouses and factories and you'll find plenty.

When I started renting a room in my property, my first tenant was a polish young lady. She was a manager. She was managing a business in Leicester, moved to London for a better opportunity. After around ten weeks with a bit of my guidence she found another managerial job in West London.

Once the two bedroom house next to my house was rented to polish tenants. They were two young couples and had a lot of visitors for my annoyance. They were all skilled persons and had at least a van and a car. Hardly I was able to park my van infront of my house.

If they were living 10/room there should have been at least 40 people living in the house next to my house. The house at that time was a two bedroom one with a large sitting room as big as both sleeping rooms. 10/sleeping room makes 20 and at least 20 in the sitting room, that makes 40 polish lodgers in a house.

 

[Excel Expert]

My main point is that in general immigrants and areas that have been taken over by immigrants are by enlarge poor areas. So much for them making us wealthier as the labour party seem to insist.

What you are seeing are clusters of people who have not made a success of moving to the UK. They will gravitate to poor housing in poor areas. They maybe exempt from benefits or just being taken advantage of them. It is not a reflection of the whole Polish race in the UK. It is also natural for races abroad to gravitate to one another when faced with hard times and abuse - Hence we have China towns in most major cities. There are Polish people living in all communities at all levels.

We used to do work for a lot of landlords but we seldom do now because they are mostly tight arses who can't afford us.

Dare I say, exactly the sort of people to take advantage of immigrants. Exactly the sort of people who would set up 10 people in a house?

Poles are sending home £3,000,000,000 a year apparently.

Where did that number come from? For that to be true, every single Polish person on the 2011 census would have to be sending just under £6,000 abroad. That is if every single one of them is sending money back to Poland. What are the chances that even 50% are sending money home.

I think this is why many overcrowd, which leads to landlords having their property ruined.

Obviously i don't know what every polish person in Bham gets up to, but they mostly live in poor areas, have loads of kids and get benefits. I've never come across a polish person working in a well paying job ever and there's meant to be half a million of them over here. Go to warehouses and factories and you'll find plenty.

So what you are saying on one hand is that the Polish are hard working people (you even employ a couple yourself) but they are not good enough to set up businesses and progress through the ranks?

I confess my use of language was bit troll'ish, i can't help it lately.

You say "troll'ish" I say racist

 

[sirearl]

[quot
Poles are sending home £3,000,000,000 a year apparently.

That is not possible.



. [/QUOTE]

Its a bit more.

http://www.polish-migrants.co.uk/polish-workers-long-term-effects.html

 

[MASSEY]

What you are seeing are clusters of people who have not made a success of moving to the UK. They will gravitate to poor housing in poor areas. They maybe exempt from benefits or just being taken advantage of them. It is not a reflection of the whole Polish race in the UK. It is also natural for races abroad to gravitate to one another when faced with hard times and abuse - Hence we have China towns in most major cities. There are Polish people living in all communities at all levels.

I agree that some of the issue could be the immigrants thinking life will be a lot easier and better here than back home and come unstuck once here. But in my view the majority of eastern europeans coming into this country are low skilled people who, if anything, just take work that should be going to the many unskilled, unemployed people that already live here. This is why i agree with UKIPs proposed vetting instead of leaving the door wide open and pretending there is no problem.

Dare I say, exactly the sort of people to take advantage of immigrants. Exactly the sort of people who would set up 10 people in a house?

I'm not pretending landlords are saints, but in all honesty the ones i have come across do offer adequate housing. I think what happens is that the immigrant tenants get down the their last 10 pence and realise that if they gut the property of all its copper pipe, cable and anything else of value they will end up with at least a grand lol. This sort of thing is a pretty common occurrence.

Where did that number come from? For that to be true, every single Polish person on the 2011 census would have to be sending just under £6,000 abroad. That is if every single one of them is sending money back to Poland. What are the chances that even 50% are sending money home.

I was googling yesterday, i read it is estimated up to 23 billion had left the uk for poland by 2011 over a period of 7 years. It was some sort of government report, im struggling to locate it now. They estimate the average is 3 billion a year. I did think it was odd myself because i did the maths on half a million people and got the same figure as you.

So what you are saying on one hand is that the Polish are hard working people (you even employ a couple yourself) but they are not good enough to set up businesses and progress through the ranks?

I think that the education systems in their home countries (east europe) isn't on a par with ours and that due to their tough economy, lack of perfect English in many cases, lack of money of their own and a mixture of other things, they may be hard working but all they are doing, in my view, is clogging up the unskilled jobs market and costing the gov money, like 21 million a year in child benefit for kids living in poland.

You say "troll'ish" I say racist

Im not prejudice against other nationalities but i like to look at the general picture which can come across as if i hate all of them when i only hate the ones who come here for a free ride, which is most of them.

 

[sirearl]

Im not prejudice against other nationalities but i like to look at the general picture which can come across as if i hate all of them when i only hate the ones who come here for a free ride, which is most of them.

Exactly what the British did on a much larger scale in order that you could enjoy the relatively high standard of living you have now.

 

[Excel Expert]

Im not prejudice against other nationalities but i like to look at the general picture which can come across as if i hate all of them when i only hate the ones who come here for a free ride, which is most of them.

There is a couple of things wrong with that statement.

1. You are openly admitting your belief is that most are here for the free ride based on very limited experience. As this is a about a race it is both prejudicial and racist.

2. How can they be here earning so much money to be sending home and be here for the free ride? That is the definition of someone working like crazy and going without to provide for their family. Which is it?

BTW - Not opposed to immigration controls based on quotas or points systems. I could never vote for UKIP to manage it. Although on paper UKIP's immigration policy has no race elements in it, there are too many racist undertones with the supporters and members of UKIP (again not all of them, but far too many for my personal liking).

 

[Comspec]

Agh everyone regurgitates the 'popular' press who seem to think UK-baiting is our national pastime these days.

Personally, I've been quite impressed by how the UK came through what looked like one of the worst world-wide recessions ever, and nobody could see a way out at the beginning...... well at least nobody who ever supported a Labour government, thinking that you could continue to spend money you do not have.

Basic micro-economics and anyone who has ever had to manage a basic household budget tells you that, when you are spending massively over what you are bringing in, you need to cut the spending habit a bit. Harsh on some it may appear, unfair to some probably....but a totally necessary exercise that we had to put in motion. Scary thing is, I see this gov't getting replaced in 2015 with the 'spending brigade' again, so fasten those seatbelts....

I would be a massive UK-supporter, but realistic enough to notice that we have a problem with pretty much anything from the 'Public Service' side of things:
- Justice is a thing of the past, criminals are treated better than victims, the court service works on the whims of the government and dances to their tune.....when they should be completely independent. I have no faith in policing, courts, or anything else law-related these days, and little respect for any of them.
- Health has fallen to a complete ass, with the Labour idea of using 'PFI' to fund a load of hospitals/facilities which are going to have to be paid for next 20-30 years at scary terms, the Tory ideas of selling off all the 'auxiliary services' (cleaning, catering, etc) meaning hospitals are disease-riddled hellholes nowadays. We seem to have allowed the patients to get in the way of our admin staff This could be simple to solve.... put a hardliner with Health Service experience in charge - let them kick some sense into it !!
- the Economy is picking up, and so it should be with all the cuts being put in place - but I'd have to ask why this money was being wasted in the first place? Where did we think it was going to come from in the end? Why can every 'normal' human being in the UK see massive savings glaringly obvious in every department, yet nobody in the Public Sector can see this at all?
- Media & TV have become crap, no other way to describe this. We have let the Jeremy Kyle brigade take over morning times, and soaps/reality TV take over the rest......false, fake bs being forcefed on the rest of us. So bad nowadays I hardly switch a TV on at all. Papers have become so biased, and they seem to follow the 'party line' as to which stories we should be forcefed..... for example how does X-Factor get the first 3 pages on a day when potential WW3 is being created in Eastern Europe?
- We have become way too bureaucratic, and this is a fault of the EU mostly.... we did let ourselves slip a little over the years, but since the EU was dreamt up, we are wallowing in a mess of it. They have us jump through hoops, follow laws that suit everyone but ourselves, and pay vast amounts of cash into the coffers of those who like to have their jollies in Brussels, etc.
- Immigration. We have allowed ourselves to be forced to accept this, as if it is something wrong if we don't. We are a small group of islands, with limited infrastructure - so if we keep adding 100,000+ influx every quarter (very small figure I saw quoted lately, it may actually be up to 3 times this), our services will suffer.....how can they not? How we managed to be directed that anyone who mentions the 'I' word is now a racist though.....I'm just not sure?
- 'political correctness' gone mental. Nowadays we seem to make everyone in the country bend over backwards to embrace everything that comes to our country. This may be in terms of origin, wealth, crime, religion, etc...... it seems that we would rather keep the 'Hamza's of this world in the UK spouting hate rather than deport him to a country he bloody comes from to face trial...just incase they don't have the same level of 'fairness' we have in our courts. If you don't like the criminal justice system in a country - don't break the bloody law there then, seems simple to me. Stop running to the UK and asking us to pay to keep you while you avoid the law in another country !!

What I do think IS wrong with the UK though...... we seem to have let the 'do-gooders' take over the country completely. Those people who would have everyone in the country bend over backwards to change our way of life to suit 5% of the population and their views. This is not necessarily in terms of race, faith, etc..... it even comes down to the Human Rights of criminals, etc. We don't classify anyone who does anything bad as 'evil' anymore, we now think they 'need help'. We don't step in when we think a child may be in trouble, we leave it til he has been starved and beaten to death....just incase we make a mistake and look bad. We don't send anyone to jail for any length of time, cos it costs us money....yet we waste it on other things anyway (take a look at the story doing the rounds at the moment about 90+ prisoners absconded and missing from an 'Open Prison', yet a load of them were murderers etc)......

Personally again - I'd have us out of the EU tomorrow !! It is a complete waste of time, and we are being managed by others on the mainland of Europe who could not give a stuff about the UK and her interests. We throw way too much money into the pot, with no accountability over how it is spent, we are forced to accept mass immigration from countries that we would realistically consider '3rd world', who are obviously going to abuse the systems thought up by the EU soft-hearted brigade - and mostly we are being crippled when we try to deal with the 'Commonwealth' countries, who we have traded with since time began. The EU does have some business benefits - but these are more than outweighed by the restrictions put on us as a part of the EU. Leave it tomorrow, the EU will still trade with us, and we will open the market to the US massively, along with the Commonwealth countries (some of whom are emerging nations with economies we should be getting teeth-deep into).

***********************************************************8

Since I'm still up, armed with coffee, and cannot go anywhere for a while........ here's a story that sums the problems with the UK up to me:

I watched a report on Newsnight not long ago, shortly after that wee Polish child starved to death in England.

They had on it 3 main guests.... 1 government advisor on Children, 1 from some Childline charity, and 1 from high up in Social Services.

The journo run a list of 37 or so instances in a year where the authorities had a chance to intervene and save this wee child, which sickened me and probably most other viewers. The kid was caught stealing food from bins at school (his mother told them he had an eating disorder, so that seemed to be ok then). He had been at hospital repeatedly with broken limbs etc (once SS had even got involved because it was 12 hours before anyone took him to hospital after he had his arm broken), and there had been many instances where the mothers partner had police intervention for violence etc...... this, plus teachers seeing a starving child every day, and nobody thought to check he was being fed properly?

Nobody saw a child fade to be the weight of a 6-month baby at 4yo? Nobody thought he was maybe being beaten & abused with all the marks on him? Only when he finally died did anyone say 'oh I thought there might have been something wrong there' !!

The 3 'experts' wheeled out onto Newsnight, and probably a good representation of the type of people our government would listen to....all had the same things to say:
- None saw that the authorities could have prevented the death of this wee child.
- All reckoned that their departmental budget being cut might have been a factor - this alone would have made me hit one of them in the studio.
- All reckoned they needed more money for 'training' for their staff.

Sorry, but a 4yo child was beaten and starved to death, right in front of everyone's eyes, Teachers, Social Services, Police, Health professionals, etc....... and nobody had the sense or authority to take a bloody look at this child?

That, my friends, is what is wrong with the UK nowadays...... that WE accept that and think we do not have the right to question it !! If we had even sacked a few from the services who failed that child, then I might have retained some faith.... but nope, nobody was at fault there at all like !!

Next morning.... papers full of Katie Price, X-Factor and the usual BS ... no mention of this story, and no further debate !!

We allow that to be the 'backbone' to our communication infrastructure and we are ALL in trouble in the UK !!

 

[simon field]

Great post.

Political correctness, ie people wanting to try appearing 'right on' so they don't upset anyone's delicate little feelings - it's a pathetic joke IMHO.