Little wonder businesses fold!

[Lucan Unlordly]

Maybe it is me? I can call a tradesman and say I want the job done yesterday and would expect to pay a premium or can ask for a ball park figure for a job that can be planned in for a few weeks time. That shouldn't have a reflection on whether I want the job done. I do, i've called you!!!

PS: For the record i've now had two quotes for a new boiler. One for £3k, the other with additional work, new radiators, valves etc., at £2500. One, where should a new pipe need to be run from the meter would cost an extra £300, the other where it might add a few hours to the job plus the price of a couple of lengths of pipe + fittings. One came reccomended and arrived with $$ signs in his eyes. The second, very loosely reccomended, friend of a friend was happy to discuss prices, time, potential issues. One has provided a pristine written quote, the other has confirmed price by text.

Both seem competent and have many years experience. Which one do you think I had to chase for a price?

 

[Ashley_Price]

This goes back to the blog post I did in 2008 - SEE HERE - when I was saying that it is more to do with how business is run than external effects of things like "recessions", etc.

If you're not running your business properly and providing a great level of customer service, people will go to your competitors.

My favourite stat that people, including the media, trot out is the one that says something like "five pubs closing a week". Here in Lewes we have a lot of pubs, yes some are very quiet on a Friday or Saturday night, yet others are really busy even on Sunday and Monday evenings. So, if all pubs are the same how come some a thriving while others are dying? Has anyone looked to see how the one's that are struggling have been run? How they treat customers, if they are friendly places to go, or give new people the cold shoulder?

A recent example of this was a group of friends (I wasn't able to go) went to a pub in Lewes, for the first time in ages. Apparently the landlord started to get a real strop and even yelled at one of the group, who turned up late, telling him to order a drink, when they had just arrived and went to meet up with all the others! Apparently, the landlord was being very rude to a number of the customers.

 

[japancool]

It's very simple.

If you want my money, you're going to have to damn well at least pretend to be interested in my business, whether you're a tradesman, a bank manager or an estate agent. If you don't want it, there are plenty who will, and you're not the only one who can provide a good service, no matter how good you think you are. If you think I'm a time waster, then it's your loss, not mine.

I went into three banks on a Saturday to enquire about a business account. All three of them took my details and promised to get back to me. One of them noted the details down on the back of a cardboard box.

Only one of those banks actually called me back on Monday morning to arrange an appointment. Guess who got the business (which I have been satisfied with up to now, at least as satisfied as you can be with a bank).

 

[10032012]

I went into three banks on a Saturday to enquire about a business account. All three of them took my details and promised to get back to me. One of them noted the details down on the back of a cardboard box.

Only one of those banks actually called me back on Monday morning to arrange an appointment. Guess who got the business (which I have been satisfied with up to now, at least as satisfied as you can be with a bank).

Please name the banks!!!

 

[japancool]

Please name the banks!!!

LLoyds, HSBC and Natwest. HSBC was the one that called me back.

 

[10032012]

LLoyds, HSBC and Natwest. HSBC was the one that called me back.

was it natwest with the cardboard box?

 

[japancool]

No, that one was Lloyds. I wasn't impressed, I mean surely they make enough money to buy notepads...

 

[10032012]

Well, I think HSBC are incentivised in their corporate culture, the other high street banks (the others you mentioned and RBS) don't really care. The RBS/natwest banks are amongst the worst. Natwest especially. I am not sure how well (or bad) they are doing but I sense that someone at HQ is pushing extreme cost cutting across the organisation.

 

[JRAD]

There is an obsession with many about getting numerous quotes for work from tradespeople however small the job in question. This can be very time consuming for the small tradesman and often results in no work because there is always someone who is willing to do it cheaper. And often cheaper means cutting corners and giving customers a bad job.
Our property management company carry out a good deal of works on behalf of freeholders and leasehold property management companies using tradesmen and there is a fine balance between ensuring that prices received are competitive and wasting contractors time on unnecessary or excessive tendering exercises. At the end of the day the contractor has to cover the time spent on tendering somehow. Or do some clients think that this time is free ? We will always obtain competitive quotes for larger works however for smaller jobs the time and cost involved in obtaining these can exceed the job itself. A reasonable approach is needed appropriate to the task in hand and a good, knowledgeable client should understand the processes involved for the benefit of all concerned.
If you can find skilled, reliable professional workers I would be recommending that customers should should consider paying a fair rate for the job without needing to go for cut throat pricing. Don't get me wrong I have no objection to clarifying with builders what exactly is to be allowed for and how costs are calculated being backed by a written quote or Agreement. However asking 6 firms to price is simply wasting everyone's time.
You can certainly see why tradesmen are quick to shy away from pricing when there may be a slim prospect of work at the end of a time consuming tender process.

 

[japancool]

Our property management company carry out a good deal of works on behalf of freeholders and leasehold property management companies using tradesmen and there is a fine balance between ensuring that prices received are competitive and wasting contractors time on unnecessary or excessive tendering exercises. At the end of the day the contractor has to cover the time spent on tendering somehow. Or do some clients think that this time is free ? We will always obtain competitive quotes for larger works however for smaller jobs the time and cost involved in obtaining these can exceed the job itself. A reasonable approach is needed appropriate to the task in hand and a good, knowledgeable client should understand the processes involved for the benefit of all concerned.

Sure, but if you contact four people and three of them don't come back to you at all, what does that say?

 

[PDW Electrical Services]

I will always return calls and follow up any enquiries that people make, but Its exactly the same as salesmen qualifying their leads

My time is so precious and costs me money when im not working.

If i start getting the feeling someone is wasting my time, or just wants a job done for next to nothing, or tries to get me into a bidding war with another contractor, i afraid its going to end there

I will only work for a quality customer who appreciates my business, there are far too many bad clients out there who assume they are doing you a huge favour offering you some work for a pittance, these are also the type that get shoddy work done by cowboys and wonder why they can never find a decent trade

 

[purely14]

It's very simple.

If you want my money, you're going to have to damn well at least pretend to be interested in my business, whether you're a tradesman, a bank manager or an estate agent. If you don't want it, there are plenty who will, and you're not the only one who can provide a good service, no matter how good you think you are. If you think I'm a time waster, then it's your loss, not mine.

.

If, following an initial telephone conversation, I think you are a timewaster then I won't come out to you so wouldn't lose anything.

If I did come out to you and thought you were a time waster afterwards I would make sure not to waste any more time and so either wouldn't get back to you or would quote sky high to put you off. Waste my time once shame on you, waste my time twice shame on me.

If someone makes a genuine enquiry to me, looking for a good job at a fair price then I will bite their hand off, ensuring to give a great quote and unbeatable service throughout and after the job is done. If on the other hand they make a vague enquiry about a job that may or may not ever happen / indicate that they are seeking over 5 written quotes for a job / try and talk over me either during a phonecall or meeting then I will not pursue that customers 'business' (if you can call it that).

Agreed with everything PDW Electrical and also JRAD say above.

 

[mckellar]

we always phone back as soon as we can, we also put a rough guide as to when to expect a call back (if we are pricing for example)

although i'm dealing with a company just now who have phoned me directly and asked to set up a meeting - we did that.

they asked for a price - we did that

they said "we will call you back this wednesday to arrange for you to commence work" its now a week past wednesday and still no call even though we were told we had the job, just waiting on the call "to start work"

nightmare, we've had to call them and arrange to start later than they said they wanted.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

There is an obsession with many about getting numerous quotes for work from tradespeople however small the job in question. This can be very time consuming for the small tradesman and often results in no work because there is always someone who is willing to do it cheaper. And often cheaper means cutting corners and giving customers a bad job.
Our property management company carry out a good deal of works on behalf of freeholders and leasehold property management companies using tradesmen and there is a fine balance between ensuring that prices received are competitive and wasting contractors time on unnecessary or excessive tendering exercises. At the end of the day the contractor has to cover the time spent on tendering somehow. Or do some clients think that this time is free ? We will always obtain competitive quotes for larger works however for smaller jobs the time and cost involved in obtaining these can exceed the job itself. A reasonable approach is needed appropriate to the task in hand and a good, knowledgeable client should understand the processes involved for the benefit of all concerned.
If you can find skilled, reliable professional workers I would be recommending that customers should should consider paying a fair rate for the job without needing to go for cut throat pricing. Don't get me wrong I have no objection to clarifying with builders what exactly is to be allowed for and how costs are calculated being backed by a written quote or Agreement. However asking 6 firms to price is simply wasting everyone's time.
You can certainly see why tradesmen are quick to shy away from pricing when there may be a slim prospect of work at the end of a time consuming tender process.

Ipossible to tell how many quotes somebody has sought without them actually telling you! People buy for all manner of reasons, cost being just one of them. In fact for many grant applications you have to get 3 quotes.

 

[japancool]

If, following an initial telephone conversation, I think you are a timewaster then I won't come out to you so wouldn't lose anything.

If I did come out to you and thought you were a time waster afterwards I would make sure not to waste any more time and so either wouldn't get back to you or would quote sky high to put you off. Waste my time once shame on you, waste my time twice shame on me.

If you think I'm a time waster, that's your prerogative, of course, just like I, as the person who is offering to pay for the job, will need to determine if you're worth pursuing or whether you're just another cowboy.

But like I said, if you don't want my money, there are plenty of others who will.

 

[japancool]

we always phone back as soon as we can, we also put a rough guide as to when to expect a call back (if we are pricing for example)

although i'm dealing with a company just now who have phoned me directly and asked to set up a meeting - we did that.

they asked for a price - we did that

they said "we will call you back this wednesday to arrange for you to commence work" its now a week past wednesday and still no call even though we were told we had the job, just waiting on the call "to start work"

nightmare, we've had to call them and arrange to start later than they said they wanted.

Sometimes, unexpected things happen on both sides. But by responding and giving them a price, at least you've put yourself in there with a chance of earning the contract (by the sounds of it, you already have the contract), compared to someone who didn't bother to get back to them at all.

I had my boiler serviced recently, but it wasn't by the first lot I hired. They were quick enough to take my deposit, but three cancellations later, I told them to just forget it and hired someone else who turned up that afternoon and sorted it for a cheaper price. If I need anything again, I will definitely go back to him. One cancellation is fine, stuff happens, I understand that. But not three. Underpromise, overdeliver, not the other way around.

 

[purely14]

Sometimes, unexpected things happen on both sides. But by responding and giving them a price, at least you've put yourself in there with a chance of earning the contract (by the sounds of it, you already have the contract), compared to someone who didn't bother to get back to them at all.

You (and Lucan Unlordy) are assuming that the tradesperson wanted that job / contract! As previously stated by myself and two or three others above, some customers are simply not worth the hassle - doesn't matter whether they are desperate for us to do the job or have a big bag of cash sitting there ready for us.

My criteria on whether I do not quote / quote a ridiculous fee to put a person off after a meeting or phonecall is based on several factors - Whether I think the enquirer is a timewaster, whether I think they are an odious cretin that I could not bear to work for, whether they are going to stand over my staff members shoulders and make a nuisance of themselves, whether they think they know better about my trade than I do and several other parameters which I have learned from ten years of self employment.

In a previous post on this thread I mentioned a terrible woman I visited once to quote for a new boiler who made me wash my hands before entering her home, before proceeding to talk over me during the remainder of the meeting. Do you think I was remotely interested in actually working for her?! I did not care one jot about her or her money, as I know that she as a person is not worth my time and effort and I knew that if we had worked for her she would have made mine & my staff's lives a misery. I've got enough on my plate trying to keep a semblance of work/life balance without adding evil people who only exist to bust my balls into the mix.

Once you have been in business taking money from the general public for long enough you soon realise that money shouldn't be your biggest motivating factor....

 

[japancool]

You (and Lucan Unlordy) are assuming that the tradesperson wanted that job / contract! As previously stated by myself and two or three others above, some customers are simply not worth the hassle - doesn't matter whether they are desperate for us to do the job or have a big bag of cash sitting there ready for us.

My criteria on whether I do not quote / quote a ridiculous fee to put a person off after a meeting or phonecall is based on several factors - Whether I think the enquirer is a timewaster, whether I think they are an odious cretin that I could not bear to work for, whether they are going to stand over my staff members shoulders and make a nuisance of themselves, whether they think they know better about my trade than I do and several other parameters which I have learned from ten years of self employment.

In a previous post on this thread I mentioned a terrible woman I visited once to quote for a new boiler who made me wash my hands before entering her home, before proceeding to talk over me during the remainder of the meeting. Do you think I was remotely interested in actually working for her?! I did not care one jot about her or her money, as I know that she as a person is not worth my time and effort and I knew that if we had worked for her she would have made mine & my staff's lives a misery. I've got enough on my plate trying to keep a semblance of work/life balance without adding evil people who only exist to bust my balls into the mix.

Once you have been in business taking money from the general public for long enough you soon realise that money shouldn't be your biggest motivating factor....

Well now, that swings both ways. As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, there are plenty of tradesmen who are odious cretins as well and if you can't be bothered to show any interest in the job, you don't deserve it and there are plenty of people who are interested and do want the job.

The customer isn't asking you for a favour. If money isn't your motivation, that's great but it doesn't put food on the table.

 

[purely14]

... if you can't be bothered to show any interest in the job, you don't deserve it

Its not that I can't be bothered, its that I am not interested.

I am fortunate that I do not need to scrabble around for business, if I don't want to work for someone I walk away with a big smile and don't look back. My business does very well and nowadays I am in an enviable position of having very low overheads, a 90% subcontracted workforce that I do not need to pay if there is no work and no physical business premises to soak up all my profits. When we go through a lean period and have a few days of no work I just take my daughter to the zoo, fix up my house and vehicles and try to enjoy myself. As I work lots and earn lots in the colder months doing boiler work I normally take off pretty much all of June-August to relax.

In my younger years as a self employed person I was busy scrapping away, getting in bidding wars with other tradesmen over crap jobs in the summer - nowadays I just sit back and watch it all with a wry smile and look forward to making great money between September till around April. I retain my sanity because I only work for nice customers as I do not need the money of customers I don't want to work for - I don't care how much they offer me!

It is not so easy for tradesmen who are desperate for money or new to the game and blinded by their hunger for expansion - they end up taking poor quality customers on and often losing out.

 

[Nala]

Well it could be the way the contact is made that puts traders off.

We probably all get the generic email that has been fired out to all and sundry, and upon further reading realise that things look odd.

I've been getting quite a few lately that ask me to quote for a job but say how long it will take - I thought that was my job to say how long it will take and then price based on that.

I did quote for one "generic" enquiry but in the quote I said it would take longer (double the time) that they allowed and based my price on that - the reply back sounded almost relieved that they had got an answer from someone (it was needed to be completed in about 5-6 days time) and they agreed the price, but it's really no surprise that they had trouble getting another quote as most would have looked at the brief, laughed and moved on without bothering. I did it and it took almost exactly the time I had said it would (within 15 minutes). I only replied because it was from a large well known company and the job was quite local.

I've got another one at the moment the same, a large company telling me how long it will take - I know that it will take longer and have told them, but I will see if I should have ignored it. Some things are more trouble than they are worth.

 

[purely14]

I've been getting quite a few lately that ask me to quote for a job but say how long it will take - I thought that was my job to say how long it will take and then price based on that....

...I've got another one at the moment the same, a large company telling me how long it will take - I know that it will take longer and have told them, but I will see if I should have ignored it. Some things are more trouble than they are worth.

Haha yes I've been getting that - customers telling me "its only a small job / its an hours work / it only takes half a day to change a boiler etc"

Takes an hour to get the bloomin' tools out of the van!!

Regarding the 'large company' - just walk away, you'll be glad of it in the long run. The minute they start thinking they are your boss rather than your client is the minute you should turn your back on them.

 

[Fencer]

I supply fencing materials to about 80 fencing contractors in a rural area. We also have about 5000 farming and general public customers. People who are new to the area sometimes try to play contractors off against one another, they'll say "X will do the job for such and such". What they don't understand is that the contractors all talk to one another and as there aren't enough contractors to meet demand they can afford to blacklist people who are trying to conduct a dutch auction on quotes. Then we have to advise the customer on how to rehabilitate his reputation, in extreme cases they may have to offer to pay for the contractor's time in doing quotes.

 

[purely14]

I had better get into fencing then, sounds like my kind of trade ;-)

 

[purely14]

Had a prospective 'client' over the last week that seemed relevant to this thread. A guy with no heating and hot water, boiler that can't be repaired. Very challenging job that requires specialist access as well as the usual gas and electrical installation work.

I had the enquiry come in and my office booked me a visit, office said that he had been a bit moany and impatient but I went to see him the same day, visited and provided a reasonable fixed price written quote to him within 8 hours of our meeting. He seemed ok to me in person so I was happy to quote for the job.

Didnt hear back from him quickly, assumed he was still obtaining quotes or thinking about it. Then I received a message from one of our marketing partners that the same man had signed up to their service and was basically touting my quote around in a 'Dutch auction' style to other engineers. fair enough I thought - maybe he's just looking to save a bit of time. I knew that the obstacles posed by his job would put off many smaller scale engineers and sole traders so wasn't too worried.

a week passed and then I received a fairly irate email from him, basically a ham-handed attempt at enticing me to take money off the quote by sending me another quote he had received. I pointed out to him that the quote had omitted lots of important points and was not comparable to my own one. He had also tried to blame me for how long he had been without heating! I argued my case and sent him on his way. Soon after I noticed he had put another request on our service partner's website, bad mouthing the 5 'time waster' contractors who had either not provided him a quote or had quoted a 'rip off price' (must have been me). I was able to follow this message and saw that he did not find any alternative engineers to provide a quote.

Today he sent two emails to me - the first challenging one part of my advice, the other 'awarding' me the job! Here is a copy of my reply to him:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
dear xxxxxxxxxxxx

I am afraid though we will not be able to carry out the job for you. I have taken the decision to withdraw our quote as following our email conversations and the content of a couple of posts you put on Rated People I am unconvinced that you are truly happy awarding us the job. It seems that you picked us as we were essentially your only realistic choice in the end due to the unprofessionalism of other companies, not because you thought we were the best people for the job. in my vast experience of working in the building services private sector such arrangements rarely work out well for either party.

I make a point to only work for customers that want an excellent job carried out with excellent service over everything else. We could have had this job done and dusted last week if you were really up for us doing it. For medium sized jobs such as yours there has to be an essential and two way relationship based on trust - you trust us to do an excellent job and stand by it, and we trust you to pay for it immediately on completion without hesitation; I do not feel that relationship is there and so we cannot proceed further from here.

Best of luck finding an installer for the job.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will go to sleep tonight with no worries on my mind

 

[Fencer]

Nice, and as you say, no worries. Good for you.
Sad thing is somone somewhere will probably be desperate enough and I don't like their chances of being paid unless they get the money upfront.
One of our contractors had a customer pull this stunt after the job had been completed, the customer then got quotes based on a job description from other contractors (leaving out the tough bits) and tried to claim he was being overcharged on the basis of that. By the time all the contractors including the ones who had been conned into wasting their time providing quotes to help him do down a fellow contractor had finished with him he paid up all but 2 token hours to save face but there isn't a fencer in 50 miles who'll touch him now. Unfortunate for him as he is a property developer.

 

[PDW Electrical Services]

Had a prospective 'client' over the last week that seemed relevant to this thread. A guy with no heating and hot water, boiler that can't be repaired. Very challenging job that requires specialist access as well as the usual gas and electrical installation work.

I had the enquiry come in and my office booked me a visit, office said that he had been a bit moany and impatient but I went to see him the same day, visited and provided a reasonable fixed price written quote to him within 8 hours of our meeting. He seemed ok to me in person so I was happy to quote for the job.

Didnt hear back from him quickly, assumed he was still obtaining quotes or thinking about it. Then I received a message from one of our marketing partners that the same man had signed up to their service and was basically touting my quote around in a 'Dutch auction' style to other engineers. fair enough I thought - maybe he's just looking to save a bit of time. I knew that the obstacles posed by his job would put off many smaller scale engineers and sole traders so wasn't too worried.

a week passed and then I received a fairly irate email from him, basically a ham-handed attempt at enticing me to take money off the quote by sending me another quote he had received. I pointed out to him that the quote had omitted lots of important points and was not comparable to my own one. He had also tried to blame me for how long he had been without heating! I argued my case and sent him on his way. Soon after I noticed he had put another request on our service partner's website, bad mouthing the 5 'time waster' contractors who had either not provided him a quote or had quoted a 'rip off price' (must have been me). I was able to follow this message and saw that he did not find any alternative engineers to provide a quote.

Today he sent two emails to me - the first challenging one part of my advice, the other 'awarding' me the job! Here is a copy of my reply to him:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
dear xxxxxxxxxxxx

I am afraid though we will not be able to carry out the job for you. I have taken the decision to withdraw our quote as following our email conversations and the content of a couple of posts you put on Rated People I am unconvinced that you are truly happy awarding us the job. It seems that you picked us as we were essentially your only realistic choice in the end due to the unprofessionalism of other companies, not because you thought we were the best people for the job. in my vast experience of working in the building services private sector such arrangements rarely work out well for either party.

I make a point to only work for customers that want an excellent job carried out with excellent service over everything else. We could have had this job done and dusted last week if you were really up for us doing it. For medium sized jobs such as yours there has to be an essential and two way relationship based on trust - you trust us to do an excellent job and stand by it, and we trust you to pay for it immediately on completion without hesitation; I do not feel that relationship is there and so we cannot proceed further from here.

Best of luck finding an installer for the job.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will go to sleep tonight with no worries on my mind

I take my hat off to you sir, i would have had to use the utmost of restraint to stop myself from letting him have it withboth barrels

I have had a customer this week who accepted my initial quote (around £300) then let me complete the work, then when its time to pay she got her laptop out and asked me to list all the materials i had used so she could get the prices for the items on the internet and then work out how much i had charged her, she also challenged the amount as the cost was a hundred or so pounds more than a roughly similar job she had seen on a price comparison site!!!

Can you believe it???i was lost for words


I had to accept a loss of £60 on my written quote for no other reason than this, after a big row in her kitchen i accepted this and walked out

She had the nerve to ask me as i was leaving if there was a years warranty on my labour and materials

I said we will not be doing any business in the future ever again and that she has now lost a very reliable and competent electrician i hope it was worth the £60

The house they own is worth over 2 million pounds

Thing is my nose was twitching when i first quoted the job but i didnt listen to it like i usually do and gave her the benefit of the doubt

 

[Ian J]

I have had a customer this week who accepted my initial quote (around £300) then let me complete the work, then when its time to pay she got her laptop out and asked me to list all the materials i had used so she could get the prices for the items on the internet and then work out how much i had charged her, she also challenged the amount as the cost was a hundred or so pounds more than a roughly similar job she had seen on a price comparison site!!!

You should have refused as it was a fixed price quote. Alternatively you should have suggested that if she wanted itemised prices it would cost her an additional £50 as that wasn't part of her original quote.

 

[tony84]

The minute they start thinking they are your boss rather than your client is the minute you should turn your back on them.

I tell most of my clients they are effectively my boss and im working for them. Dont get me wrong if they started being stupid with that then i would "quit" my job. But they are my boss for those hours - they are paying me to do work.

 

[purely14]

I have had a customer this week who accepted my initial quote (around £300) then let me complete the work, then when its time to pay she got her laptop out and asked me to list all the materials i had used so she could get the prices for the items on the internet and then work out how much i had charged her, she also challenged the amount as the cost was a hundred or so pounds more than a roughly similar job she had seen on a price comparison site!!!

Can you believe it???i was lost for words


I had to accept a loss of £60 on my written quote for no other reason than this, after a big row in her kitchen i accepted this and walked out

She had the nerve to ask me as i was leaving if there was a years warranty on my labour and materials

I said we will not be doing any business in the future ever again and that she has now lost a very reliable and competent electrician i hope it was worth the £60

The house they own is worth over 2 million pounds

Thing is my nose was twitching when i first quoted the job but i didnt listen to it like i usually do and gave her the benefit of the doubt

Yep been there mate, you can't effectively filter them all out. Not your fault.

What they don't realise is that tradesmen arent buying everything at internet prices. Big materials (fixtures, consumer units, boilers etc) are all around internet prices but the small stuff and sundries we use are sometimes double what you can buy them for online.

A while ago I started invoicing customers before we actually carry out the job. That way they can see that I work on fixed prices, but it also creates a legal agreement between the two parties prior to commencement. All costs are fixed and non negotiable once we start. I send them the invoice over along with confirmation of the starting date etc.

On another note, I had a response from the guy I sent the above email to. Wasn't happy, but had the attitude of an employee that says "you cant fire me, I just quit already!".

Just to bring the thread back to the original topic - the customer above (who is a time wasting bell end) was complaining that only me and another tradesman quoted him - clearly all the other guys got a bad feeling from the outset and (rightfully) didn't bother wasting any more time. He was obviously on good behaviour when I visited otherwise I wouldnt have got back to him either ;-)

 

[PDW Electrical Services]

You should have refused as it was a fixed price quote. Alternatively you should have suggested that if she wanted itemised prices it would cost her an additional £50 as that wasn't part of her original quote.

Yeah usually i would of put my foot down but it got to a point where i was doubting she was going to pay me at all, so i kinda cut my losses


I had a few heated words with her and she wouldnt budge, what else can you seriously do though?

 

[purely14]

I tell most of my clients they are effectively my boss and im working for them. Dont get me wrong if they started being stupid with that then i would "quit" my job. But they are my boss for those hours - they are paying me to do work.

That's all well and good Tony84, but that quote from me was in reference to me warning someone against working for builders / architects. These types of client have been known to grossly take advantage of their contractors to the point where they cannot undertake their own workload as the builder / architect in question is requesting them to do so much extra work (that should not be within their remit to do) that the contractor in question ends up working 14 hour days and then has to go home and do paperwork for their 'boss' that shouldn't be their responsibility to do.

I once had a large contract to replace 400 small heating systems in a housing development, I had 8 installation teams at the time. A hefty workload but one that we could have coped with if the builder running the overall renovation project hadn't been taking up so much of my time asking me for help in undertaking his surveys, ordering materials and attending meetings - none of which had been in our job spec. I also caught the builders guys trying to pull my engineers off their jobs to help out with menial tasks that were nothing to do with them a few times.

I put my foot down several times but they kept coming back to me to the point that I had to walk away from the project. Have had architects doing similar and also changing job spec's midway through and expecting there to be no change to the quoted price - even if the workload has increased considerably.

Fair enough go an extra mile for your client, but the client in question shouldn't rip the a**e out of it! Problem is there are too many tradesmen in London, the managers of such projects expect to be able to shaft anyone they like as they know they can find others to take their place if they walk off.