Why don't businesses 'get' marketing?

[Frimley111R]

I am constantly amazed that businesses seem to understand so little about the need for marketing. Given that (one of) its definition is, essentially, 'the methods of acquiring and retaining customers' you'd think it'd be at the heart of all businesses and yet most seem almost unaware of it.

One of the clients I work with is an entrepreneur who invests millions in SMEs and yet he readily says to me that he knows nothing about marketing. I spoke recently to a very well funded start up, partly financed by one of those well known investors from a certain BBC show and despite me telling them how important marketing was and them seeming to understand, then appointed a young 'marketing assistant' to manage their marketing. If businesses want to grow they seem to then look at marketing but otherwise just bumble their way along.

Is marketing still perceived by organisations as just 'smoke and mirrors'?

 

[tacticalsales]

Personally marketing is one of those things that I just whole heartedly dislike. ROI measure is poor at the best of times, unless its digital marketing such as newsletters etc.

With Google Ad's and social ad's too its made it easier to make marketing hyper targeted but again ROI from time to time proves to be of a mystery.

I've had some practice before with newspaper/print advertising and I have to say it was a headache that delivered hardly anything in return.

However January did see the best number of leads ever for us because we did some digital marketing - it's now become clear that the deal was favourable not the actual advert.

 

[businessfunding]

Personally marketing is one of those things that I just whole heartedly dislike. ROI measure is poor at the best of times, unless its digital marketing such as newsletters etc.

With Google Ad's and social ad's too its made it easier to make marketing hyper targeted but again ROI from time to time proves to be of a mystery.

I've had some practice before with newspaper/print advertising and I have to say it was a headache that delivered hardly anything in return.

However January did see the best number of leads ever for us because we did some digital marketing - it's now become clear that the deal was favourable not the actual advert.

I think you are confusing marketing with promotion; which is just one facet of marketing

Most big, successful Look at most global brands and you will see that marketing constitutes up to 80% of their activity.

Incidentally, one of the key reasons hat businesses don't 'get' mketing is that they indulge in random promotions which bring - at best - random results. Marketing is strategic, focused and all-encompassing.

 

[ZipserSir]

I have been in marketing for 30 years.

Why doesn't business get it?

Because most businesses do 'marketing' in their own way and they don't get the the professional type of Marketing that is taught and executed at the best businesses.

tacticalsales has it spot on - he doesn't understand what it is, but he wholeheartedly dislikes it!

Presumably he does his own accounting and would be shocked when he got an unexpected call from HMRC!

Sorry tacticalsales, only joshing!

 

[ITsoldUK]

I must admit I fell into the 'dont get it' bracket in my early days.

However as I got fed up with feast or famine results I focussed my efforts into marketing and strategical development.

The results after 6 years now speak for themselves and even now I regularly spend a good deal of my working week researching and developing my marketing activity.

My eyes opened widely when I took the time to write a m plan and noticed how scatter gun and unfocussed my old model strategy was...

In short I think many dont get it as they tend to think 1 facet is the total sum of marketing...such as promotions.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using UK Business Forums

 

[Cambridgeshire Website Design]

It seems that 90% of small business owners fall into two categories:

1. Those who are largely dependent on word of mouth.
2. Those who believe in paying for search engine optimisation until they reach the first page of Google.

And who can blame them when the alternatives are so hit and miss, depending on the agency they employ.

 

[Jester]

I think a lot of people just avoid it because they don't really understand it. It gets chucked into the same category as selling when in reality it's a very different monster.

It doesnt help that many "marketing gurus" invent new marketing jargon in an attempt to prove their expertise and justify their extortionate fees.

 

[Jester]

I think a lot of people just avoid it because they don't really understand it. It gets chucked into the same category as selling when in reality it's a very different monster.

It doesnt help that many "marketing gurus" invent new marketing jargon in an attempt to prove their expertise and justify their extortionate fees.

 

[Nuno]

I am constantly amazed that businesses seem to understand so little about the need for marketing.

It could be that poor marketing by marketeers explains at least some of this...

'Understand so little' is a classic 'blame the punter' attitude which might not enthuse potential clients. It's not great marketing, sales pitching or promotion.

Hopefully it is only to illustrate a point here, but attitudes can spill over into other areas of life.

 

[Frimley111R]

It could be that poor marketing by marketeers explains at least some of this...

'Understand so little' is a classic 'blame the punter' attitude which might not enthuse potential clients. It's not great marketing, sales pitching or promotion.

Hopefully it is only to illustrate a point here, but attitudes can spill over into other areas of life.

Fair point. And I have to say a lot of my experience is bears this out. I've seen people's eyes almost light up when I explain what we've done for other companies and how it works and, importantly, what results it generates.

 

[Innovation]

Hi Guy's some good points raised and I myself do not get the marketing and the reasons been it has never been my choosen subject , but I can see the value it would bring to a start up business in its early stages, can the same be said about using a marketeer to market and promote an investment opportunity, I ask this question as I consider seeking an expert to exploit my companies plans and ambitions, and would a good market and PR firm work towards a % of investments raised , with a continued % on product sales, leading to equity shares if targets are met as a reward for they time and efforts

Looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Faith28]

We focus on 'marketing' in trade magazines and trade fairs, hold competitions, be active on social media and so on. We plan on 'selling' through lead generation from those events and/activites as well as direct selling through shops and online site.

Does that help distinguish between the two.

Would it help if i threw PR campaigns in the mix too

 

[Innovation]

Hi Faith28 , thanks for quick reply , I see your points, would this route help raise a companies profile who are seeking investment capital, as I am thinking that plan is more suitable to gain exposure to generate more sales, how would a marketeer go about promoting an investment opportunity?

 

[Faith28]

Hi Faith28 , thanks for quick reply , I see your points, would this route help raise a companies profile who are seeking investment capital, as I am thinking that plan is more suitable to gain exposure to generate more sales, how would a marketeer go about promoting an investment opportunity?

I am also working on procuring investment...so i look at how to structure my business and ensure i have a good team and product/service in place.

The most important realisation i have made is to focus on people and build relationships with them. Appreciate their time for speaking with us and give them space to absorb our brand. Build our brand and expect it will take months with some, others it will be instant because they 'get' it...others are testing to see who bites first. We appreciate all these potential clients and take on board the advice they give.

We try to deliver more than their expectation.

Network with key people in the industry and build it from there. The more key people speak about you and your brand the better.

 

[Innovation]

I am also working on procuring investment...so i look at how to structure my business and ensure i have a good team and product/service in place.

The most important realisation i have made is to focus on people and build relationships with them. Appreciate their time for speaking with us and give them space to absorb our brand. Build our brand and expect it will take months with some, others it will be instant because they 'get' it...others are testing to see who bites first. We appreciate all these potential clients and take on board the advice they give.

We try to deliver more than their expectation.

Network with key people in the industry and build it from there. The more key people speak about you and your brand the better.

Firstly good luck with seeking investment , and you make some great points, I am guessing you are a marketeer also if not sounds like you have certainly researched this area as it makes total sense in what you are saying, I have a full business plan and feel my structure is good allowing me to continue designing current models of the concept, the product is outstanding , and is aimed at the construction industry (which after the current budget will be on the up) the concept addresses health and safety , environmentally friendly reducing construction waste, landfill costs and in general helping tradesmen beat the recession,

I agree it is the team that will make the difference and exploit the benefits of such a concept, one can only do so much , so its back to the question , would you seek a marketeer to help move the companies plans forward in seeking investment, as I was thinking along the lines that such a team member would have potential contacts in highlighting the product which would hopefully lead to investment pledges, as investment is needed to bring the concept to life

 

[cjd]

All businesses 'do' marketing whether they 'get' it or not. Marketing just means showing you business to the world.

Most people though, think it's just advertising and/or sales. Sometimes they'll include PR and these days social media.

But the truth is that everything a business does is marketing - it's unavoidable. Everything - good or bad - that a company does communicates a message to real or potential customers.

Voipfone has never advertised and we don't have a marketing budget. Nor do we have a sales force. But three quarters of our 25 employees are tech support.

We're a technology development company and a telephone company but we win awards for customer service. Customer service is marketing. (Despite all the idiotic corporates that outsource it to India and call it a cost centre.)

We spend a huge amount of time, money and sweat on making our service work properly - that's marketing. It's marketing because when you have a good product people tell their friends and word of mouth is the very best form of marketing you can get.

What those businesses you speak of don't get about marketing is that marketing is happening wether they know it or not. The real job of marketing is to make sure that the messages that your company is sending out are positive, not negative, and to take some control over it rather than let it happen to you.

And, by the way, posting messages here is also marketing ;-)

 

[Faith28]

Firstly good luck with seeking investment , and you make some great points, I am guessing you are a marketeer also if not sounds like you have certainly researched this area as it makes total sense in what you are saying, I have a full business plan and feel my structure is good allowing me to continue designing current models of the concept, the product is outstanding , and is aimed at the construction industry (which after the current budget will be on the up) the concept addresses health and safety , environmentally friendly reducing construction waste, landfill costs and in general helping tradesmen beat the recession,

I agree it is the team that will make the difference and exploit the benefits of such a concept, one can only do so much , so its back to the question , would you seek a marketeer to help move the companies plans forward in seeking investment, as I was thinking along the lines that such a team member would have potential contacts in highlighting the product which would hopefully lead to investment pledges, as investment is needed to bring the concept to life

My advice would be this if you can find someone as passionate as you are about the business with 'connections' then yes by all means delegate that to them and work with them. But if not then I would urge you to develop those skills quick smart and start to see yourself as multi-tasked and direct the business plan into the hands of individuals or organisations that will help directly or indirectly.

 

[Innovation]

Well said and put across, I understand your points , but what I am trying to get at is: Would it be best to bring in a marketeer who knows the game in helping a start up achieve its aims of raising investment ,I have social media accounts , its just using them to they full potential to reach a particular aim, It would be great to hear marketeer's thoughts on this

 

[Innovation]

My advice would be this if you can find someone as passionate as you are about the business with 'connections' then yes by all means delegate that to them and work with them. But if not then I would urge you to develop those skills quick smart and start to see yourself as multi-tasked and direct the business plan into the hands of individuals or organisations that will help directly or indirectly.

I am currently using the Crowdcube platform to display the opportunity, but as a high end product I realise that it makes sense to delegate to a marketing firm, would a % of investment raised be attractive to such a firm and further % on each product sold through they efforts and further rewards of a equity shares, I will spend time talking with freelancers within this site to explore this route, thanks for your time and consideration of my posts much appreciated

 

[cjd]

Would it be best to bring in a marketeer who knows the game in helping a start up achieve its aims of raising investment ,I have social media accounts , its just using them to they full potential to reach a particular aim.

This is a very specific question and it can't be answered without a much better knowledge of your company and what it is you're trying to achieve.

(Though, looking at your site, the idea is pretty cool. If the problem is investment and you have a real invention - I'd be looking at selling it under licence to a big brand, rather than developing it myself.)

 

[Innovation]

This is a very specific question and it can't be answered without a much better knowledge of your company and what it is you're trying to achieve.

(Though, looking at your site, the idea is pretty cool. If the problem is investment and you have a real invention - I'd be looking at selling it under licence to a big brand, rather than developing it myself.)

Thanks for your thoughts on the product, I am not really wanting to license to a big brand, I have worked on the concept for 29 month from the Eureka moment and believe with the investment we seek can become the manufacture and proudly say designed developed and manufactured in the UK - Its a real invention and is patent pending - It is my brain child and after spending 24 years in the construction industry and developing the concept from an end users point of view can feel it is not far from been big news in the industry, its designed to not only improve health and safety which is a big issue with mobile tradesmen and power tools (90,000 anual accidents) it can win the operator contracts and jobs , due to removing the need for pre-fabricated material, quotes can be submitted 30% lower whilst increasing profits by as much at the same time, it can also help employers remove the risk of potential damages claims , remove landfill costs as well as less demand on raw material, not to mention the the return on investment, on the value of waste material and the removal of the pre-fabricated costs, with savings as high as 60% in some cases,

I am trying to achieve the investment of £75k to start production and commercialise the product - building a highly profitable business model

 

[MASSEY]

Hi Guy's some good points raised and I myself do not get the marketing and the reasons been it has never been my choosen subject , but I can see the value it would bring to a start up business in its early stages, can the same be said about using a marketeer to market and promote an investment opportunity, I ask this question as I consider seeking an expert to exploit my companies plans and ambitions, and would a good market and PR firm work towards a % of investments raised , with a continued % on product sales, leading to equity shares if targets are met as a reward for they time and efforts

Looking forward to your thoughts.

I think you have it the wrong way around. You are looking to exploit a good marketer and get your potential, and it's a big potential, business off the ground.

Would you agree?

 

[Innovation]

I think you have it the wrong way around. You are looking to exploit a good marketer and get your potential, and it's a big potential, business off the ground.

Would you agree?

Looking at it that way , Yes I agree - but does not sound good wanting to exploit a marketeer, but logically you have hit the nail on the head when considering the way you put it across

 

[cjd]

I am trying to achieve the investment of £75k to start production and commercialise the product - building a highly profitable business model

Then I think you have defined the task wrongly, you don't need a marketing guy, you need an investor. You need to get a business case together and do the rounds of angels.

It's a much easier life licensing your patent, but I wish you well with it, I think it has a chance.

 

[Innovation]

Then I think you have defined the task wrongly, you don't need a marketing guy, you need an investor. You need to get a business case together and do the rounds of angels.

It's a much easier life licensing your patent, but I wish you well with it, I think it has a chance.

I agree to a certain extent, Yes I do need an investor , I have a business case together in as far as placing a pitch on Crowdcube (which only accepts around 25% of applicants wishing to use the platform to raise investment) after a slow start, I reasoned this to the retail prices as a high end product , as most investors in the site are the crowd who seem to place smaller investments in startups, after due dilligence from the Crowdcube team regarding my business case and the opportunity offered , I feel it is not the business model or the product , but the fact of the end price in the current economic climate, (although the product was developed to help tradesmen beat the recession) so these potential investors are missing the point - this is why I was seeking opinions on bringing in a marketing guy to help reach the next level highlighting the many benefits of such a concept in a more professional way

I understand that it is an easier life licensing , but are determined to be the face behind the product as I am a tradesman also and I have many idea's regarding attachments and two further models to build my companies brand , and just been generally active in creating beneficial tools to help tradesmen as I stopped trading to consentrate on building this company and really enjoy getting up in the mornings and spending the day been creative ,solving problems and turning them into prototypes , thanks for your wishes and your thoughts regarding the concept having a chance is great to hear and must say all who have seen the prototype in action are quite impressed , from tool specialists to innovation advisors.

 

[Frimley111R]

Bit of a thread drift here guys.....

 

[Rich Best]

Bit of a thread drift here guys.....

Bringing it back to the topic of the thread, I know a number of companies who have been so adamant that they do not need marketing because of a number of reasons.

The number 1 reason is that they feel their product or service is so good it markets itself. While good products can pick up a bit of marketing through word-of mouth, it is extremely limited to how far it can really go.

I think the problem is is that business owners (rightly) don't want to spend money on something they don't believe will benefit them. And with the rise of social media marketing and it's limited (if any) costs, many businesses will think having a Twitter and FB page is more than enough marketing.

It's all about convincing them that marketing isn't simply throwing money out the window.

 

[Young Recruit]

Marketing has become a dirty word with negative connotations attached to it and disagreements over its meaning.

Marketing is simply choosing a market to compete in, understanding the customers within that market, and then making your business attractive to those customers so you can make a profit.

The businesses that do not do the above will not survive.

JA

 

[arorastat3456]

What jobs can be obtained with a business and marketing degree that are fairly straightforward and don't require too much effort?

 

[businessfunding]

What jobs can be obtained with a business and marketing degree that are fairly straightforward and don't require too much effort?

McDonalds......

 

[Frimley111R]

Marketing has become a dirty word with negative connotations attached to it and disagreements over its meaning.

Yes, there's a thread on LI which is entitled something along the lines of 'How to insult a marketer' and the things that people have posted really just highlight that a key issue is that many people don't know what marketing is. It seems that communicating this is almost more important than doing it!

 

[eventdomain]

We spend a huge amount of time, money and sweat on making our service work properly - that's marketing. It's marketing because when you have a good product people tell their friends and word of mouth is the very best form of marketing you can get.

Exactly, if something demonstrates it works -then it works end of. Its the degree of it working thats the key to ROI, but people dont know which web-publications will work, its not always obvious what delivers and its trial and error and testing until it becomes clearer and a promotion route is found.

 

[Spinoza]

When I first started to learn marketing back in the day out trainer used to say that a business which doesn't market is like a guy who goes to a nightclub then stands in the corner expecting the attractive girls to come up to him and ask if he wants to sleep with them. I might work if you're the only guy in the place (the only supplier) but unfortunately there are usually lots of other guys (suppliers) who are prepared to woo the girls that you're not and they're the ones you see going home with them.

 

[Frimley111R]

Hehe. Maybe I'll tell my next potential client that one!

 

[FIZIX Agency]

When I first started to learn marketing back in the day out trainer used to say that a business which doesn't market is like a guy who goes to a nightclub then stands in the corner expecting the attractive girls to come up to him and ask if he wants to sleep with them. I might work if you're the only guy in the place (the only supplier) but unfortunately there are usually lots of other guys (suppliers) who are prepared to woo the girls that you're not and they're the ones you see going home with them.

There is a lot of truth in that analogy, in a few ways. Marketing and building relationships between you and your customers is a lot like dating.

 

[Cynic]

All businesses 'do' marketing whether they 'get' it or not. Marketing just means showing you business to the world.

Most people though, think it's just advertising and/or sales. Sometimes they'll include PR and these days social media.

But the truth is that everything a business does is marketing - it's unavoidable. Everything - good or bad - that a company does communicates a message to real or potential customers.

Voipfone has never advertised and we don't have a marketing budget. Nor do we have a sales force. But three quarters of our 25 employees are tech support.

We're a technology development company and a telephone company but we win awards for customer service. Customer service is marketing. (Despite all the idiotic corporates that outsource it to India and call it a cost centre.)

We spend a huge amount of time, money and sweat on making our service work properly - that's marketing. It's marketing because when you have a good product people tell their friends and word of mouth is the very best form of marketing you can get.

What those businesses you speak of don't get about marketing is that marketing is happening wether they know it or not. The real job of marketing is to make sure that the messages that your company is sending out are positive, not negative, and to take some control over it rather than let it happen to you.

And, by the way, posting messages here is also marketing ;-)

Having the worlds greatest product and the nicest customer service staff means nothing if nobody knows they exist...Marketing is how you acquire customers (be it through established relationships, referrals, free trials, advertising) servicing is how you retain them...You can't get one without the other

I agree that peer recommendation is the best for acquiring more clients effortlessly but this is a very dormant approach to business...One should supplement a proactive marketing campaign

 

[cjd]

Having the worlds greatest product and the nicest customer service staff means nothing if nobody knows they exist...Marketing is how you acquire customers (be it through established relationships, referrals, free trials, advertising) servicing is how you retain them...You can't get one without the other

Yes you can, we've done it. I've also worked in businesses that spent a huge amount on traditional marketing and wasted almost all of it.

A lot of people think that marketing is only the obvious stuff of a campaign - that's just nonsense, it's only a tiny part of it and if your business requires repeat sales it won't work at all if your basic business simply average or worse.

 

[Frimley111R]

servicing is how you retain them...You can't get one without the other

I'd say that servicing and marketing is how you retain them. For example a customer contact strategy, sales offers, upgrades, new products etc.

 

[Cynic]

Yes you can, we've done it. I've also worked in businesses that spent a huge amount on traditional marketing and wasted almost all of it.

A lot of people think that marketing is only the obvious stuff of a campaign - that's just nonsense, it's only a tiny part of it and if your business requires repeat sales it won't work at all if your basic business simply average or worse.

You mean institutional marketing/brand advertising ? So you mean to tell me you built your tech startup and focused on customer service and clients just popped out of nowhere ?

 

[cjd]

So you mean to tell me you built your tech startup and focused on customer service and clients just popped out of nowhere ?

Yes......they typed 'VoIP' into google and found us or heard from their mate in the pub or read an article that a journalist had written somewhere because he thought we were doing something interesting.

Of course, if your basic product or service is generic and average, you're going to have to spend a disproportionate amount of your money trying to persuade people that it's worth buying.

I use the pub/restaurant analogy a lot. There's literally thousands of pubs and restaurants in the city I live; all of them easily accessible to me. But I go to maybe a dozen and they're all very popular. The reason is that they're good or great and the rest aren't. Only a tiny fraction of companies are great - if you get to be even good you stand out and people will use you.