Britain a failing nation ?

I see no hope for the UK ,unless something radical is done.

As the devide between rich and poor gets even wider ,with a tiny minority having control over the majority.

I can well see society breaking down even more than it has already.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19979017

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

What's new?

The country has been in worse situations and in the future it will probably get worse!

Sir Earl, what do you think will happen?

Part of the issue is the constant doom and gloom media exposure!!!

 

[10032012]

Nothing is going to happen. Cash for honours, MP expenses scandal (x3), etc

Even the large marches and the student protests...

As sad as it is for me to say this, the whole country has brought this on itself, and we thoroughly deserve to become a third world country by 2040.

London 2012 could have had a much better impact if it wasn't so restrictive. It was a big opportunity that would have never solved the problem, but could have been a turning point. The country went downhill at the turn of the century (20th) before redeeming itself as of the World Wars then no one in power since has had an ambition etc. The situation is going to get much worse.

Being in the United States of Europe doesn't help our case - we have traded with various countries in the world for hundreds of years before... leaving the EU will not hinder us. If Germany, France or the UK pulled out of the EU... its curtains, everyone else would follow suit. Where is this fixed referendum we have been waiting for?

 

[DavidAshdown]

How can you say no one in power has had an ambition ?

Thats a crazy comment. Love her or hate her, you cannot say Maggie didn't have an ambition and didn't change things through ambition !

 

[DavidAshdown]

I see no hope for the UK ,unless something radical is done.

As the devide between rich and poor gets even wider ,with a tiny minority having control over the majority.

I can well see society breaking down even more than it has already.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19979017

What sort of radical thing would you suggest ?

What has the rich and poor divide got to do with it ? It's been much wider apart before.

I agree with 'no hope for the UK' though, but for entirely different reasons.

 

[the_Cheif]

With regards to the EU... We should leave. Or if not leave, we should at least draw up a new deal based on our terms.
Being in the EU is damaging us more than if we weren't in it, and quite frankly, as mentioned above...we've been trading with other nations around the world for years. Leaving the EU will just bolster our relations with other trading nations, AND, we would still trade with the other EU countries that we do now, just under different terms. Either way, we'd get through it and come out on top.

Now on to our country... from what I've seen many of the problems are coming from too much bureaucracy, paperwork, red tape...and more often than not - lack of education!

--Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about lack of education in the terms of English, Maths, Science, Engineering etc. (however, that could be debated)... but lack of education in Politics, Business, and how our economy and our country actually works. I know hundreds of people who would love to set up their own enterprises, but have no idea how - all the resources are there (I must praise government for that), but the education isn't there.

Benefits!! ******** to it. Only those who NEED it should get it. Our welfare bill is taking us under...and one of the reasons the latest generation aren't achieving half of what they really could!

Then again, this comes back to the fact that government have taken power away from the people time after time. Not allowed to discipline our children any more because it's child abuse. F**king hell. I got hit as a kid. I got battered as a kid if I did something wrong. Now I understand that some people need to be punished because there IS a line between discipline and child abuse, but getting a slap every now and then never hurt me.

 

[toastking]

I doubt anything radical or anything will get that much better but there will be a big deal made of the highs and lows.

Got any ideas about resolving it? Is there something that could be done by the government or even outside of government?

 

What's new?

The country has been in worse situations and in the future it will probably get worse!

Sir Earl, what do you think will happen?

Part of the issue is the constant doom and gloom media exposure!!!

I have no idea what will happen,but one suspects crime will increase as it is.

Society has its unsafe areas already.

I do know the more inequality in a society there is, the less happy the members,whether this will lead to some kind of revolution I have no idea.

But the more parasitical a society is in its structure the more likely.IMHO

 

[the_Cheif]

The one thing we need for this country is to get our communities back...and we need to give power back to the people.

Burglar breaks into your home. God forbid if you defend yourself because you might get prosecuted for assault. B*llocks to that. Somebody breaks into my home, they've broken the law, and they've lost their human rights. Right?

Apparently not. It's this fear that's partly bringing the country down.

Health and Safety... As humans of this great country we're too 'dumb' to be able to decide for ourselves if something is safe or not... so of course they've brought in laws to take that decision power away from us and have it governed by stupid lines of writing written down on paper.
See where I'm going with this?

We're not even allowed proper street parties to celebrate nationwide events any more without getting licenses, etc. This just makes the majority of us sit at home, watch events from the comfort of our front rooms, and become disengaged with the people living in our immediate communities (to some extent).

Give the power back to the people.

Ben.

 

[DavidAshdown]

With regards to the EU... We should leave. Or if not leave, we should at least draw up a new deal based on our terms.
Being in the EU is damaging us more than if we weren't in it, and quite frankly, as mentioned above...we've been trading with other nations around the world for years. Leaving the EU will just bolster our relations with other trading nations, AND, we would still trade with the other EU countries that we do now, just under different terms. Either way, we'd get through it and come out on top.

Now on to our country... from what I've seen many of the problems are coming from too much bureaucracy, paperwork, red tape...and more often than not - lack of education!

--Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about lack of education in the terms of English, Maths, Science, Engineering etc. (however, that could be debated)... but lack of education in Politics, Business, and how our economy and our country actually works. I know hundreds of people who would love to set up their own enterprises, but have no idea how - all the resources are there (I must praise government for that), but the education isn't there.

Benefits!! ******** to it. Only those who NEED it should get it. Our welfare bill is taking us under...and one of the reasons the latest generation aren't achieving half of what they really could!

Then again, this comes back to the fact that government have taken power away from the people time after time. Not allowed to discipline our children any more because it's child abuse. F**king hell. I got hit as a kid. I got battered as a kid if I did something wrong. Now I understand that some people need to be punished because there IS a line between discipline and child abuse, but getting a slap every now and then never hurt me.

Good post, couldn't agree more

 

[a.mart]

In terms of what is happening in the world an especially woth the euro zone, isn't Britain doing quite well... everyone is suffering from the economical crisis but i think this country is doing ok considering everything.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Obviously looking at the UK from a Scottish standpoint, I can't wait until Scotland gets independence (as I previously said in another thread) or at the very least all powers back to Edinburgh. I'd love to see a day where Scotland is as rich as Norway. Such a fantastic little country, but very rich indeed!

The UK has been broken for centuries. It's time people in England & Wales had a leader who cares about ones country and fights for it like up here.

How do we fix the 'UK', break it up for a start

Oh my, getting too political for my liking

ScotInvest

 

I doubt anything radical or anything will get that much better but there will be a big deal made of the highs and lows.

Got any ideas about resolving it? Is there something that could be done by the government or even outside of government?

Land and monopolised essential services would seem a good starting point.

When I did a survey on here most people paid 50% of there income for housing.

Ridiculous when you consider the average house costs 60k to builds.

People spending 25 years to pay for such a simple structure as a house.

Ludicrous exchange of effort for a product.

Between landowners and planning departments most youngsters will never see a home of there own unless inherited.

Time we moved on from the Victorian structure we live in.IMHO

 

[the_Cheif]

Got any ideas about resolving it? Is there something that could be done by the government or even outside of government?

Cut benefits to those who are able to work (and teach people that if you can't get a job...create your own job. That's what I'm having to do).

Relax import duties and enable people to import raw resources cheaper (without high duties) and be able to manufacture products at a lower cost to become more competitive with other nations.

Relax planning laws. One company I recently read about applied for planning to build a new factory and provide jobs for hundreds of people. The council in question took to look to decide on the planning - this resulted in said company putting 'two fingers' up to the council and building their factory on the continent because it was quicker to get through the planning.

Drop many of the Health & Safety laws that costs SME's a hell of a lot of money each year. Teach Health & Safety principals in schools, add it to the curriculum, and make sure pupils have a H&S certificate upon leaving school instead of putting the costs on to individual businesses. It'll save the private sector billions, and if implemented in the next few years will mean every generation going forward will have basic H&S training (with the opportunity to take it further/higher level in college) upon leaving education. Surely that's gotta be a good thing?

Instill a new culture in our future generations. If there's no work where you are. Either create work for yourself, or move to a place where there is work. This is what people have done for thousands of years...why should it stop now?

Ben.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Let's also look at some basics things here:

- Dress standards, what a joke, people going out to eat or drink in trainers, jogging bottoms and even t-shirts, the lack of dress sense is appalling.
- Children of all ages running around in public establishments, shouting, screaming and misbehaving whilst parents ignore them
- Adults swearing and being generally being rude to people.

I could go on, but the standards are now so poor because as a nation we (some of us) have lost our self esteem and self respect and believe you can't tell anyone off.

 

What has the rich and poor divide got to do with it ? It's been much wider apart before.

The evidence is pretty clear.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

 

[DavidAshdown]

Bring back victorian standards and morals.

 

[DavidAshdown]

The evidence is pretty clear.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

Not yet listened to it all to be fair, but on the face of it, seems like a load of mumble jumble and modern day hype. Moral standards today are far worse than in Victorian times where people showed respect and honesty.

Why is rich and poor today solely associated with money ??

 

[the_Cheif]

Let's also look at some basics things here:

- Dress standards, what a joke, people going out to eat or drink in trainers, jogging bottoms and even t-shirts, the lack of dress sense is appalling.
- Children of all ages running around in public establishments, shouting, screaming and misbehaving whilst parents ignore them
- Adults swearing and being generally being rude to people.

I could go on, but the standards are now so poor because as a nation we (some of us) have lost our self esteem and self respect and believe you can't tell anyone off.

Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed if I have to go out to eat in trainers and jogging bottoms.

As a nation, a lot of us have lost our self-respect and 'standards' and many more are fearful to implement these standards into our children because we're not allowed to discipline any more.
Sure, there are ways to discipline a child without a 'smack'...but a smack is what we were all brought up with. It's ok the government take away our right to smack our children...but they didn't provide the necessary education needed for parents to discipline our children without using a smack (child psychology training).
--Note from the_Cheif: This education wouldn't have been needed if we were still aloud to smack our children and a short shock of a smack is normally enough to instil discipline without causing any long term harm or damage, and in fact actually promotes respect for the parents and elders.

 

[the_Cheif]

Why is rich and poor today solely associated with money ??

It shouldn't be. I have little money, but I feel rich in love, friends, and with the relationships I have with people.

I live a basic lifestyle (intentionally) - buy what I need, not spend on excess, and be as generous as I can.

People are just far too obsessed with money these days. Far too obsessed.

 

[DavidAshdown]

I agree, it drives me mad that we've all got to be so politically correct. Can't say or do this or that and got to say what people want to hear rather than what we feel.

No discipline, what bad people we are if we tell anyone off, especially our children.

That's the real reason why this country has gone to rock bottom.

 

[the_Cheif]

Land and monopolised essential services would seem a good starting point.

When I did a survey on here most people paid 50% of there income for housing.

Ridiculous when you consider the average house costs 60k to builds.

People spending 25 years to pay for such a simple structure as a house.

Ludicrous exchange of effort for a product.

Between landowners and planning departments most youngsters will never see a home of there own unless inherited.

Time we moved on from the Victorian structure we live in.IMHO

Our population is ever growing, and without a 3rd World War, it's going to continue growing.

Land is limited. We have to build upwards. It're approaching an era where 'access' is much more important than 'ownership', and quite frankly, I think more and more of us should rent.....

Before you scald me for this (and for some reason David Cameron - and many others - believe we should own our own houses), it's just not practical with the growing population we have right now. It worked great a hundred years ago when there was much more space per person...but going forward, what's more important?;

A - Trying to pay for an over-priced house that you may pay off before you die and be able to leave to your kids...who are likely to sell it or have already moved away anyway.

or

B - spending less than 20% of your income on rent, working hard, and spending your cash that you've earned to live a good life.


Access is becoming much more important than ownership, and I believe we should move more towards the continental model - cheap (but good) housing, rented of course, a good place to live, and be able to use the rest of your income on living a good life.


Just my 2cents.



Sirearl - regarding monopolised essential services. It's all wrong. We should have a system in place where these essential services are in places and charged at little above cost price. Water/Electric/Gas/Communications - they shouldn't be run for profit as they are now. They should be run for the people of the country! Wish we could change this.

Ben.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Unfortunately it's legal to hit your child (using reasonable force if I remember correctly). There can be discipline without hitting your child. I was never hit as a child, but I'm reliably told I was well behaved.

It's the welfare state we need to get away from. It's totally unacceptable to be able to live off the state for 50 years when you can work. Law and order needs to be reinstated. Tougher sentences (although I tend to think it wouldn't make an difference as it seems nothing is a deterrent).

Our fascination with materialistic tosh needs to end. Our fascination with greed and money also needs to end (bit weird coming from an ethical capitalist).

That's some of my views

ScotInvest

Edit: On the topic of making profit from energy etc, should companies be able to profit from food? Interesting thought.

 

[DavidAshdown]

I don't agree services should be run for the people of the country. Maybe they should be more regulated but they offer a service no different to food and drink and many other things. They are a commodity and therefore should be profit making. There is no reason why our country should provide anything to us, not even really a NHS service even though I wouldn't want us to loose it, but it's not a god given right, why should it be ?

Remember JFK, 'Think not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'.

 

This education wouldn't have been needed if we were still aloud to smack our children and a short shock of a smack is normally enough to instil discipline without causing any long term harm or damage, and in fact actually promotes respect for the parents and elders.

One is supposed to love ones children.

One does not cause harm or pain to people you love.

Respect is optional and is dependant on how parents behave in my experience.

Self respect is not dependant on external forces.

Hence why it is called self respect.

 

Land is limited. We have to build upwards. It're approaching an era where 'access' is much more important than 'ownership', and quite frankly, I think more and more of us should rent.....

Land is not limited ,but the supply and price is strictly controled by a very few people.

Less than 1% of england is built on and less than 0.5% of Scotland.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/LandArticle.html

 

[DavidAshdown]

Unfortunately it's legal to hit your child (using reasonable force if I remember correctly). There can be discipline without hitting your child. I was never hit as a child, but I'm reliably told I was well behaved.

It's the welfare state we need to get away from. It's totally unacceptable to be able to live off the state for 50 years when you can work. Law and order needs to be reinstated. Tougher sentences (although I tend to think it wouldn't make an difference as it seems nothing is a deterrent).

Our fascination with materialistic tosh needs to end. Our fascination with greed and money also needs to end (bit weird coming from an ethical capitalist).

That's some of my views

ScotInvest

Discipline is good and if it means harmless smacking then it should be encouraged. Brute force is not acceptable but lets be realistic here, a smack across the back of the leg is different to belting a child senseless. Facts remain that a high proportion of people used the former rather than the latter and the world was abetter place.

It's because of the withdrawal of this discipline and the lack of tougher sentences that crime has increased because people have no fear.

 

[the_Cheif]

I don't agree services should be run for the people of the country. Maybe they should be more regulated but they offer a service no different to food and drink and many other things. They are a commodity and therefore should be profit making. There is no reason why our country should provide anything to us, not even really a NHS service even though I wouldn't want us to loose it, but it's not a god given right, why should it be ?

Remember JFK, 'Think not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'.

Great quote Chuckles. Sure, they are commodities, but at the same time they are necessary for the advancement of our country, and for the human race as a whole. Therefore I believe they should be provided at a rate that's not much more than the cost price. How are we going to advance as a rate if we're being sapped (financially) for the services we need to use in order to advance?

Nothing is a 'God given right', but we should be working together as a nation to drive down costs and improve living standards for all.

 

[the_Cheif]

Land is not limited ,but the supply and price is strictly controled by a very few people.

Less than 1% of england is built on and less than 0.5% of Scotland.

Land is limited. Land is finite. Fact.


Sure, less than 1% of England (and 0.5% of Scotland) is built on...but what percentage is needed to be used in order to feed those living on that 1% and 0.5% respectively?

Not to mention wildlife, and the environment that sucks the pollution we create out of the air and provides us with clean air.

 

[DavidAshdown]

One is supposed to love ones children.

One does not cause harm or pain to people you love.

Respect is optional and is dependant on how parents behave in my experience.

Self respect is not dependant on external forces.

Hence why it is called self respect.

One does love ones children. Why is smacking seen as not loving them ?

If used correctly, then it is doing far more for them than ignoring them which many parents do. Discipline is key and society today has destroyed that.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

One does love ones children. Why is smacking seen as not loving them ?

If used correctly, then it is doing far more for them than ignoring them which many parents do. Discipline is key and society today has destroyed that.

I don't think anyone would disagree that discipline is key, but smacking a child is somewhat medieval in my view. There's other ways of discipline without lifting your had to a child. I personally believe one has failed as a parent, if one has to smack ones child.

ScotInvest

 

[DavidAshdown]

Great quote Chuckles. Sure, they are commodities, but at the same time they are necessary for the advancement of our country, and for the human race as a whole. Therefore I believe they should be provided at a rate that's not much more than the cost price. How are we going to advance as a rate if we're being sapped (financially) for the services we need to use in order to advance?

Nothing is a 'God given right', but we should be working together as a nation to drive down costs and improve living standards for all.

But we all need food and drink as well as gas and electricity and other things.

I don't think this is where we need to look because I think we all need to pay for what we receive. I think we need to look at those not paying and living off our society. It is here that we will find a way to reduce those costs, not the other way round......back to the JFK quote !

 

One does love ones children. Why is smacking seen as not loving them ?

Do you go round smacking people smaller than you that you love.?

Its thuggery and causes resentment and a perpetuation of that behaviour.

Its also an excuse for not sparing the time to communicate with children.

 

[DavidAshdown]

I don't think anyone would disagree that discipline is key, but smacking a child is somewhat medieval in my view. There's other ways of discipline without lifting your had to a child. I personally believe one has failed as a parent, if one has to smack ones child.

ScotInvest

I'm shocked that anyone believes that. So do you believe that children in general are better behaved today than in bygone days ?

 

[the_Cheif]

But we all need food and drink as well as gas and electricity and other things.

I don't think this is where we need to look because I think we all need to pay for what we receive. I think we need to look at those not paying and living off our society. It is here that we will find a way to reduce those costs, not the other way round......back to the JFK quote !

Oh I totally agree with you Chuckles - We SHOULD pay for what we receive, I just completely disagree that we should pay extortionate and over-inflated prices for 'essential' services that we need in order to live.
Luxuries are a different matter. I'm happy for private companies to charge 200%-500% markup for products that are not essential to life or communication, but the things we NEED in order to live in this modern day and age - the population should not be conned by over-inflated prices in order to line the pockets of those in control of these industries.

Back to the JFK quote. It's pure brilliance, and it should be reiterated to every man and woman that sign on to JSA and other benefits every time they go and claim.
I agree with you, if we got more people back into work and off their lazy arses (and the jobs are actually there, if they were to take what was offered and not be choosy), we'd save billions of £'s and be able to reinvest this in to the country where it needs it...and not into lazy f**kers who can't be arsed.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

I'm shocked that anyone believes that. So do you believe that children in general are better behaved today than in bygone days ?

Well of course not. But hitting a child doesn't solve anything. In fact, it would make me rebel even more! As I said, I was never hit as a child. It wasn't necessary, I was brought up properly with values and morals.

ScotInvest

 

[the_Cheif]

I'm shocked that anyone believes that. So do you believe that children in general are better behaved today than in bygone days ?

No, they are certainly not.

 

I'm shocked that anyone believes that. So do you believe that children in general are better behaved today than in bygone days ?

I suspect parents are not so well behaved.

 

[the_Cheif]

Just another side note on what we can do for the country, and not what the country can do for us...

The government destroyed our sense of community slowly, but surely, by implementing stupid laws and red tape and hiking up duty on alcohol and such (head by out before you shout):

Street parties brought communities together.
What happens now is you need a license, you need to inform the local council and emergency services, and you also need public liability insurance to hold a street party legally. Not to mention asking the permission of various bodies and involving the highways agency if you want to close a cul de sac in order to being the local residents together.


Alcohol prices. They're going up and up in the pubs...yet supermarkets are dirt cheap.
What does this produce? Many more people staying at home, segregating and isolating themselves from society (which is never healthy), and drinking themselves to death behind closed doors.
We should have lower prices in the pubs (slash the duty paid in pubs), and MUCH HIGHER prices in the supermarkets. This would lead more people out of their homes and into the pubs - into a more sociable setting, where communities can come together, get to know each other (like they used to), and group conformity (and group morals) and take hold...and things would be much better for communities as a whole.


Am I still making sense?

Ben.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Oh I totally agree with you Chuckles - We SHOULD pay for what we receive, I just completely disagree that we should pay extortionate and over-inflated prices for 'essential' services that we need in order to live.
Luxuries are a different matter. I'm happy for private companies to charge 200%-500% markup for products that are not essential to life or communication, but the things we NEED in order to live in this modern day and age - the population should not be conned by over-inflated prices in order to line the pockets of those in control of these industries.

Back to the JFK quote. It's pure brilliance, and it should be reiterated to every man and woman that sign on to JSA and other benefits every time they go and claim.
I agree with you, if we got more people back into work and off their lazy arses (and the jobs are actually there, if they were to take what was offered and not be choosy), we'd save billions of £'s and be able to reinvest this in to the country where it needs it...and not into lazy f**kers who can't be arsed.

Yep, I totally agree.