What would a marketer actually DO for us?

[mr magoo]

NEED PLUS DESIRE PLUS ABILITY TO PAY EQUALS SALE

I personally know people who have made millions of pounds teaching that wee formula.
I thought the idea of this forum was to help and encourage with any usefull advice/contacts they can give.

I never professed to know everything about sales or marketing so please dont criticise genuine advice given with no malice intended.

 

[S-Marketing]

I personally know people who have made millions of pounds teaching that wee formula.
I thought the idea of this forum was to help and encourage with any usefull advice/contacts they can give.

I never professed to know everything about sales or marketing so please dont criticise genuine advice given with no malice intended.

That just about sums it up. Made millions teaching that formula. Nobody will make millions actually using the formula though.

Its one of those things that people who like to call themselves 'Gurus' teach people in return for a chunk of their hard earned cash.

We can criticise advice on here if we believe it to be wrong, surely. Just because your intentions are good, it doesn't make you right.

 

[mr magoo]

I know people who have personally taught people that formula who have gone on to make fortunes.

I would just say,that formula is hundreds of years old and encompasses every aspect of the sales procedure/technique

Did it ever occur to you stretchy MAYBE your wrong??

 

[S-Marketing]

I know people who have personally taught people that formula who have gone on to make fortunes.

I would just say,that formula is hundreds of years old and encompasses every aspect of the sales procedure/technique

Did it ever occur to you stretchy MAYBE your wrong??

Wrong? Not a chance.

If you think that your formula is a good one, then it isn't even worth discussing. It is flawed at such a basic level.

 

[akirk]

I know people who have personally taught people that formula who have gone on to make fortunes.

I would just say,that formula is hundreds of years old and encompasses every aspect of the sales procedure/technique

Did it ever occur to you stretchy MAYBE your wrong??

Except - (as I posted above with examples) it is fundamentally wrong

surely Need OR Desire

I need food / clothing - may not desire it...
I desire a new TV - def. don't need it...

Alasdair

if we are to be logical about this it is an AND / OR rather than an AND where you have just cut out 90%+ of your market

for example:

Tescos food aisles have a mixture of foods which meet 'Need' and those which meet 'Desire' if you were to look at thos meeting both need and desire it would be a very empty store:

- flour / baking powder / component foods - need
- brands / chocoloates / wine / etc. - desire

they would have very few which come into both...

Alasdair

 

See I have a slight problem with marketing Guru's and PR people.

I mean if I was a super duper marketing genius,I suspect I would be making all the money for myself and not giving away the tricks of the trade to all and saundry for a few bob.?

Unless of course that few bob equalled more than I could possibly earn with me own projects.

Reminds me of the tipsters at the race tracks.WTF.?

Sure I am wrong about that but not very.

I suppose someone will tell me that marketing guru's love there jobs and may not have enough passion or enthusiasism to make money for themselves.

Earl

Earl

 

[Kernowman]

Tut tut Earl, do I detect a wee drop of cynicism there?

If us sooper dooper Marketing know-it-alls posted our entire knowledge base on a forum, then each post would be miles long and still not entirely hit the mark.

Another point is there is little scope for a tailored response when the OP only usually writes a small part of the whole picture anyway.

The acid test is of course will all that gobbledegook provide a genuine ROI and if done correctly, then it is a resounding "YES".

 

[Kernowman]

Tescos food aisles have a mixture of foods which meet 'Need' and those which meet 'Desire' if you were to look at thos meeting both need and desire it would be a very empty store:

- flour / baking powder / component foods - need
- brands / chocoloates / wine / etc. - desire

they would have very few which come into both...

Alasdair

I dunno though, that blonde I saw on checkout number 12 this morning came pretty darn close to achieving both need and desire

 

[akirk]

See I have a slight problem with marketing Guru's and PR people.

I mean if I was a super duper marketing genius,I suspect I would be making all the money for myself and not giving away the tricks of the trade to all and saundry for a few bob.?

Unless of course that few bob equalled more than I could possibly earn with me own projects.

Reminds me of the tipsters at the race tracks.WTF.?

Sure I am wrong about that but not very.

I suppose someone will tell me that marketing guru's love there jobs and may not have enough passion or enthusiasism to make money for themselves.

Earl

Earl

Very valid points - but I do think that there are those who can do, and those who can teach and they are not always the same people...

There are those who can see with clarity what someone else's business needs, but might not have all the wider skills to run their own business / run a different type of business...

so... it is possible that these folks are good - but aw with anything where you have to put your faith in the non-tangible (i.e. not buying a widget) I would always check out such a company / person quite carefully...

Alasdair

 

The acid test is of course will all that gobbledegook provide a genuine ROI and if done correctly, then it is a resounding "YES".

No doubt that expert marketing works.

The question is why don't the guru's do it for themselves rather than taking the crumbs from other peoples plates.:|

Seems a much easier way to make a few bob to me.

Earl

 

There are those who can see with clarity what someone else's business needs, but might not have all the wider skills to run their own business / run a different type of business...

Yup sounds like a bleeding good excuse to me.

Earl

 

[S-Marketing]

See I have a slight problem with marketing Guru's and PR people.

I mean if I was a super duper marketing genius,I suspect I would be making all the money for myself and not giving away the tricks of the trade to all and saundry for a few bob.?

Unless of course that few bob equalled more than I could possibly earn with me own projects.

Reminds me of the tipsters at the race tracks.WTF.?

Sure I am wrong about that but not very.

I suppose someone will tell me that marketing guru's love there jobs and may not have enough passion or enthusiasism to make money for themselves.

Earl

Earl

This question gets asked a lot doesn't it. My personal opinion (apart from never listen to a man who calls himself a guru) is you should never take any sort of business advice from someone who earns less than you do.

Consultants come up with all the excuses under the sun why they know best for everyones business, but dont really have a reason why they dont just do it themselves. IMO if they could do it, they would be.

My situation is this. I offer marketing consultancy as one of my sources of income, but not my main source of income. For me it acts as a bit of a safety net. I like to be very busy and be juggling lots of projects all together. Obviously sometimes these leads to uncertainty from a financial point of view. As a consultant I have the skills, experience and reputation to be able to work every single day of the year for at least, my minimum charge of £400 a day. This means I am in the fortunate position to bring in £100k a year, as a bare minimum. As consultancy has few overheads, most of this is profit. This pays the bills and keeps us off the streets.

What I do with the rest of my time is work on my own projects, which actually make me a lot more than the consultancy. I also work on a couple of businesses in my capacity as a marketing consultant, for a share of the business. I do my usual magic, they make loads of money, and so do I. Everyones a winner.

 

[ooh]

I mean if I was a super duper marketing genius,I suspect I would be making all the money for myself and not giving away the tricks of the trade to all and saundry for a few bob.?

If you were a super duper marketing genius you'd need at least a semi good business idea to apply your marketing genius to. You could come up with this yourself or maybe your super duper marketing skills could be used to great effect for people who have already come up with at least a semi good business idea and in addition need marketing. That's two choices. Both are viable. But marketing on its own is useless/meaningless. Consider accountancy. How can you have an accountant, or at least what's the point, without something to account for?

Everyone's the same in this respect: they're just trying to fit in where there's an opportunity (a need which they can meet), use their skills etc. to do so, in order to have a meaningful life and fund their life. It's just serving needs. No difference between a marketing person and an accountant or any other profession in that respect.

 

If you were a super duper marketing genius you'd need at least a semi good business idea to apply your marketing genius to. You could come up with this yourself or maybe your super duper marketing skills could be used to great effect for people who have already come up with at least a semi good business idea and in addition need marketing. That's two choices. Both are viable. But marketing on its own is useless/meaningless. Consider accountancy. How can you have an accountant, or at least what's the point, without something to account for?

Everyone's the same in this respect: they're just trying to fit in where there's an opportunity (a need which they can meet), use their skills etc. to do so, in order to have a meaningful life and fund their life. It's just serving needs. No difference between a marketing person and an accountant or any other profession in that respect.

Blimey are you telling me a marketing genius can't come up with an idea to make money.?

Sounds like a not very clever genius to me.

Earl

 

[Kernowman]

No doubt that expert marketing works.

The question is why don't the guru's do it for themselves rather than taking the crumbs from other peoples plates.:|

Seems a much easier way to make a few bob to me.

Earl

Ah well, the money is being made from referrals because you are rather good at what you do and also the repeat business when you have dug them out of a hole once and sooner or later they fall back into it or a similar one again

Yes, but one could also argue that it is far better to teach a man to fish so he can feed himself for life, rather than give him a fish to feed himself today. It's then down to basic economics that the daily fee they pay for the service as and when needed is cheaper than the total fees required to teach someone else all your Marketing skills

The working hours are not that bad either, no stock to buy, minimal overheads too

 

[ooh]

Blimey are you telling me a marketing genius can't come up with an idea to make money.?

No, I'm not telling you that at all In fact I said that was one of two possible options. Presumably some marketing people do choose exactly that. Others choose to offer their marketing skills to other companies. Two very different courses of actions, career options.

 

[ooh]

Yes, but one could also argue that it is far better to teach a man to fish so he can feed himself for life, rather than give him a fish to feed himself today.

Both are viable alternative different business options, or career choices.

teach a man to fish: that guy from Norwich who used to be on TV

give him a fish to feed himself today: Waitrose

 

[ryan4444]

Is marketing just market research questionaires and talking to target markets to gain as much possible relevant information about them eg their wants and needs in order to write effective advertisements using this gathered information?

 

[Kernowman]

Is marketing just market research questionaires and talking to target markets to gain as much possible relevant information about them eg their wants and needs in order to write effective advertisements using this gathered information?

No, marketing isn't just market research questionnaires and talking to target markets, there is a lot more to it than that, especially if it is a specialist product or service aimed at a niche market, or when the product really is "green field" where no other similar model is available for comparison.

In your particular business it is pretty much well defined what your business objectives are and where your target markets are, so an in depth market research programme wouldn't tell you an awful lot more than what you already know.

 

[Steve p]

Sounds good.

 

[Liv99]

Hey everyone,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in....

I'm about to approach a couple of marketing companies with a view to finding out exactly what they can offer but wondered if any of you have any experience re pricing structures and how they generally charge for work (eg hourly)?

Also, if their suggestions don't actually increase interest from consumers then will I still be liable to pay their full charges??

Hope I haven't hijacked the thread too much - if so I can start a new thread but thought it might be relevant here as you all seem to have knowledge of marketing - thanks for any replies!

 

[laguna]

Hey everyone,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in....

I'm about to approach a couple of marketing companies with a view to finding out exactly what they can offer but wondered if any of you have any experience re pricing structures and how they generally charge for work (eg hourly)?

Also, if their suggestions don't actually increase interest from consumers then will I still be liable to pay their full charges??

Hope I haven't hijacked the thread too much - if so I can start a new thread but thought it might be relevant here as you all seem to have knowledge of marketing - thanks for any replies!

I think you first need to understand and convince yourself wholeheartedly that a GOOD marketeer will provide you with excellent value for money, but nothing can be guaranteed.

Your question seems to be focused on price and what it will cost you as opposed to what you will get (benefits) in return? and as you probably know, cheap is not best.

If as I suspect - the moneys really tight at the moment, and its about promoting a product or service, the basic stuff you can do yourself or use the internet and gather the basic knowledge required. If you would rather do what your good at (running your business) or you don't have the time, you at least need to grasp the basics. If you don't grasp the basics you cannot possibly follow any advice given, and its as much about taking onboard what is suggested and following up on any advice provided.

Also, if their suggestions don't actually increase interest from consumers then will I still be liable to pay their full charges??

You cannot expect recompense. You will instinctively know if you are given bad advice or you are misinformed. If you have any doubts then your initial consultation should highlight any shortcomings. Inform and ask questions... it is allowed!

If its about branding/image or persuasive advertising or sustained guidance you need in the implementation of your campaigns, then a marketeer will be invaluable to you as this is something only an expert can undertake - but be prepared to pay for his/her experience and expertise.

Please don't think of marketing as a luxury only big business can afford, its execution can be simple or complex but it is without doubt - an absolute necessity!
You should perhaps think in terms of what you might pay a marketeer today, is an investment (that should be ongoing) and one that will pay handsome dividends tomorrow and thereafter.

I'm not a marketeer myself but my marketing skills have been learned and applied to my own campaigns & ventures over the years, and I suggest if the moneys really tight you try and do the same or at least set aside a healthy budget for outsourcing.

Good luck
Chris

 

[S-Marketing]

Hey everyone,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in....

I'm about to approach a couple of marketing companies with a view to finding out exactly what they can offer but wondered if any of you have any experience re pricing structures and how they generally charge for work (eg hourly)?

Also, if their suggestions don't actually increase interest from consumers then will I still be liable to pay their full charges??

Hope I haven't hijacked the thread too much - if so I can start a new thread but thought it might be relevant here as you all seem to have knowledge of marketing - thanks for any replies!

From a consultants point of view, your questions are very common. The problem we, and other consultants have, is the clients ability to carry out our instructions. If our fees were results based, it would be very difficult to decide if we had been successful or not, as there are many other factors effecting the results, some of which are completely out of our control.

We actually offer a guaranteed marketing service whereby we agree targets on commencement of the contract, and base our fees on results, and not time spent. When clients approach us for this service they are often of the opinion that they would like to meet to decide if THEY want to use US. To be honest we usually let them think thats whats happening. In reality i'm deciding if they are worthy of such a contract. If my earning is based on their ability to follow through with our suggestions, I have no desire to work with clueless individuals who expect to give our services a try for nothing.

At the end of the day, any decent consultants will have full prof. indemnity insurance, just in case they really get it wrong

 

You cannot expect recompense. You will instinctively know if you are given bad advice or you are misinformed.

How comes I don't instinctively know the lottery results.

How on earth would someone who knows nothing about the game instinctively know something was wrong.?

The last think people should rely on in business is instincts.IMHO

Earl

 

[Kernowman]

The problem we, and other consultants have, is the clients ability to carry out our instructions. If our fees were results based, it would be very difficult to decide if we had been successful or not, as there are many other factors effecting the results, some of which are completely out of our control.

When clients approach us for this service they are often of the opinion that they would like to meet to decide if THEY want to use US.

To be honest we usually let them think thats whats happening. In reality i'm deciding if they are worthy of such a contract. If my earning is based on their ability to follow through with our suggestions, I have no desire to work with clueless individuals who expect to give our services a try for nothing.

Most clients think you are a magician who will come along, wave their magic wand and they see the money rolling in straight away.

The major issue is that you usually get called in when the business is on it's last legs and you have been called in out of sheer desperation to provide an instant no cost solution. If there is a bad attitude prevailing in that business and there is also a chronic lack of funding available, then no magic wand is ever going to pull that business back from the brink.

One of the major problems is the client thinks they already know it all or have already tried and in your extensive list of actions they spot something painfully obvious that they should have done years ago but never bothered doing, or they had a half-hearted attempt at doing it, so they home in on that one item and begin braying that is not what they are paying you to do - tell them the obvious, while at the same time ignoring the remainder of the wise advice. Or, they cherry pick the option(s) they like the look of and then moan because the strategy isn't working for them. Many is the time I have spent more time changing attitudes and prejudices than actually getting on with the job I was supposed to be doing, but once that barrier is broken then success for the client really is just around the corner in most instances. All too often I have felt like (but not doing so) telling the owner that the business would really take off and fly if they went on a cruise - for around 10 years or so

 

[S-Marketing]

Most clients think you are a magician who will come along, wave their magic wand and they see the money rolling in straight away.

The major issue is that you usually get called in when the business is on it's last legs and you have been called in out of sheer desperation to provide an instant no cost solution. If there is a bad attitude prevailing in that business and there is also a chronic lack of funding available, then no magic wand is ever going to pull that business back from the brink.

One of the major problems is the client thinks they already know it all or have already tried and in your extensive list of actions they spot something painfully obvious that they should have done years ago but never bothered doing, or they had a half-hearted attempt at doing it, so they home in on that one item and begin braying that is not what they are paying you to do - tell them the obvious, while at the same time ignoring the remainder of the wise advice. Or, they cherry pick the option(s) they like the look of and then moan because the strategy isn't working for them. Many is the time I have spent more time changing attitudes and prejudices than actually getting on with the job I was supposed to be doing, but once that barrier is broken then success for the client really is just around the corner in most instances. All too often I have felt like (but not doing so) telling the owner that the business would really take off and fly if they went on a cruise - for around 10 years or so

I have felt on numerous occasions that the best possible advice I could give, would be for them to stay at home.

Definately charge extra for getting my 'magic wand' out too.

 

[Kernowman]

I have felt on numerous occasions that the best possible advice I could give, would be for them to stay at home.

Definately charge extra for getting my 'magic wand' out too.

You keep your "magic wand" safely tucked away. You know what happened the last time it saw daylight

 

[Liv99]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses to my question - all the advice is really appreciated.

 

[laguna]

How comes I don't instinctively know the lottery results.

How on earth would someone who knows nothing about the game instinctively know something was wrong.?

The last think people should rely on in business is instincts.IMHO

Earl

I suspect you may be right there earl, it's easy to forget sometimes that instinct is not inherent in some people

as for the lottery, even mystic meg still puts her numbers on week after week

 

[Call Tracker]

Simply - A marketer should be able to identify the features and benefits of your products and promote them to clearly defined market. This should include preparing a marketing plan and setting an agreed budget to be able to promote your products/services effectively. The main objective is to acheive ROI and of course profit.

 

Well a decent marketer will take time to understand your business, your product,service, reesrahc your competitors,understand your customers' needs wants and aspirations then help you develop a strategy that will help you increase new sales, profit margin and increase business with existing customers. Marketing is all about strategy, and being customer centric, get this bit wrong or fail to do you research and you are wasting your time with all the rest. Design is not marketing-marketing is not design. Direct response marketing is usually best for a number of reasons.

Offer something to some one better, quicker cheaper than your rival and you will make money, how you achieve this is what a real Marketer will help you with.

Constructing your message and deciding what media to use and desinig your fliers, emails, sales letters or whatever it may be is always the last stage.

Without wishing to labour the point MARKETING IS NOT A SYNONYMOUS TERM WITH ADVERTISING.