What would a marketer actually DO for us?

[OpenSure]

Hello. I look after marketing for OpenSure, but I'm not a marketing person by trade. My approach is mainly by 'making friends', being approachable and taking every opportunity to get involved in everything that comes my way and then getting as much publicity mileage out of it as I can. Instinctively I avoid direct marketing - emails, phone calls - because I'm not keen on receiving them myself. I use all sorts of methods to make contacts and have built loads of relationships, but I'm not succeeding in turning them into customers. We've always done well by word of mouth, but with economic circs as they are now we have to go out and get new customers, and quite simply I'm failing despite working hard. It galls me as our existing clients love us and we provide an excellent service.

So, assuming we had a nice marketing budget ready to spend (let's say £1000 to begin with) what would a marketing company do for us that I can't do? I'd like to know what we would really get for the money. Thanks.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

My approach is mainly by 'making friends'

have built loads of relationships, but I'm not succeeding in turning them into customers.

As the saying goes, it's not "show friends", it's "show business".

So, assuming we had a nice marketing budget ready to spend (let's say £1000 to begin with) what would a marketing company do for us that I can't do?

Isn't it more "what you won't do", rather than what you "can't do"?

You don't like direct marketing, so you won't do it. There's your problem. It's an attitude issue, not a skills issue.

Hope this helps,

Steve

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Hello. I look after marketing for OpenSure, but I'm not a marketing person by trade. My approach is mainly by 'making friends', being approachable and taking every opportunity to get involved in everything that comes my way and then getting as much publicity mileage out of it as I can. Instinctively I avoid direct marketing - emails, phone calls - because I'm not keen on receiving them myself. I use all sorts of methods to make contacts and have built loads of relationships, but I'm not succeeding in turning them into customers. We've always done well by word of mouth, but with economic circs as they are now we have to go out and get new customers, and quite simply I'm failing despite working hard. It galls me as our existing clients love us and we provide an excellent service.

So, assuming we had a nice marketing budget ready to spend (let's say £1000 to begin with) what would a marketing company do for us that I can't do? I'd like to know what we would really get for the money. Thanks.

As Steve said, it's an attitude issue. E-mails, phone calls and direct marketing ARE marketing, and nothing can change that. Making friends isn't marketing, it's just, well, making friends.

You need to buckle up and start doing some proper marketing activities.

Anyway, if I had that £1000, I'd use some of it to get your website sorted out before you start even thinking about driving traffic towards it. That way, you'll get a lot more customers out of the time you spend generating visitors.

Your site is in some real need of focus, straightforward information and actual sales copy which sells your services and persuades people to use you.

Once you have that sorted and you have the sales conversion rate on the up, you can then do some marketing and make a lot more money out of everything you spend.

 

[S-Marketing]

I have just finished writing an e-mail to a perspective client outlining 'what we would do for them'. I cannot post it on a public forum, but pm me if you would like a copy (all industry specific information would be removed, as would all client details). I think it would answer your question.

 

[Kernowman]

As usual we have a total muddle over what is "Marketing" and what is "Sales" and from looking at your website it is not much good at either. And can the posters who are offering their wisdoms be clear over which process is which? Not you Stretchy

Emailing, phoning and "direct marketing" are not Marketing processes at all, they are SALES processes.

I am none too clear as "the layman" looking at the website what the Marketing message really is, so you need to run the whole thing through the grass roots Marketing sieve to strain out what the product/service actually is, who the intended audience is, what it will do for them, THEN work on the Sales part of the process putting that into action on the website to get more SALES.

 

[S-Marketing]

Sip from the font of marketing knowledge here.

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=172203

 

[directmarketingadvice]

As usual we have a total muddle over what is "Marketing" and what is "Sales" and from looking at your website it is not much good at either. And can the posters who are offering their wisdoms be clear over which process is which? Not you Stretchy

Emailing, phoning and "direct marketing" are not Marketing processes at all, they are SALES processes.

Direct marketing isn't a "marketing process"?

That's news to me.

Steve

 

[OpenSure]

Thanks very much, that's given me a fair bit to think about. I'm sure it's blatantly obvious from our website that we have precisely no marketing expertise! Our site has recently had a facelift, but clearly we need to work on the content.

Thanks too for pointing out that there is a distinction between sales and marketing - it's an important distinction to us, never having had to either sell or market before in 15 years of business, and it was specifically marketing I was asking about. Sales is a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[ryan4444]

Isn't sales a part of marketing? i thought that any contact with your customers is marketing? CONFUSED!

 

[Kernowman]

Direct marketing isn't a "marketing process"?

That's news to me.

Steve

Well then be prepared to be shocked. It never has and never will be, because contact with a prospect by any means with the intention of a selling transaction IS a sales process. What irks me so much since I joined this forum is the b*st*rdisation of what Marketing actually is and how people are so blase about dismissing it as an irrelevance in the modern business world. How many times do I need to say on here that email, brochures, leaflets, telephones and websites are no more than the MEDIUMS for conducting sales processes, not the Marketing itself. The word "sales" seems to have acquired some sort of taint or stigma to it, so now we get the situation where we have aberrations like "Email marketing" when it's correct terminology is "Email sales".

How would you define Marketing?

 

[ryan4444]

I did a short ou course on marketing (business studies) i stupidly didn't finish it but from that short study period i understand marketing to be "a range of activities that are designed to understand and satisfy a target markets wants and needs"
and then sell it to them i guess (not so confused now think i understand!- maybe!!?)

So is this right- sales is a process that comes after the marketing process?

Basically find out what the target market wants before you give it to them?

 

[Kernowman]

I did a short ou course on marketing (business studies) i stupidly didn't finish it but from that short study period i understand marketing to be "a range of activities that are designed to understand and satisfy a target markets wants and needs" and then sell it to them i guess (not so confused now think i understand!- maybe!!?)

You are not that far off the mark

At least you have grasped that fundamental element that Marketing always precedes all sales activity. It's a bit like bombing really. Marketing identifies the target, ensures the right target is chosen, it chooses the right type of bomb to hit the target, affixes a precision laser guidance to it, chooses the right plane to carry the bomb, analyses the weather for the flight to go smoothly, launches the bomb to hit the target with pinpoint accuracy and with no collateral damage. The Sales process in isolation on it's own will do NONE of those things, because it is the equivalent of mass carpet bombing and it may not be in the right country even, let alone being delivered in the right place at the right time, in the right manner, towards the right target.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Well then be prepared to be shocked. It never has and never will be, because contact with a prospect by any means with the intention of a selling transaction IS a sales process.

You're assuming that selling is the one and only thing direct marketing does. But that's not the case at all.

What irks me so much since I joined this forum is the b*st*rdisation of what Marketing actually is

Well, right back at you.

How would you define Marketing?

Drayton Bird, who literally wrote the book on direct marketing, defined it as "any advertising activity which creates and exploits a direct relationship between you and your prospect or customer as an individual".

I'd be happy to go along with that.

Steve

 

[Kernowman]

Drayton Bird, who literally wrote the book on direct marketing, defined it as "any advertising activity which creates and exploits a direct relationship between you and your prospect or customer as an individual".

I'd be happy to go along with that.

Steve

But you still have not defined Marketing.

So you see that as proof? Just because he wrote a book called direct marketing doesn't legitimise the illegitimate.

So both him and you are wrong and the clue is in the words "advertising activity" and that is what sets it apart from Marketing, because "advertising activity" is a sales process not a Marketing process. The CONTENTS of the advertising has been created by Marketing process, but the DELIVERY of the advertising is a sales process.

You go off and study the subject of Marketing on Wikipedia, then come back and debate it from an informed viewpoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

 

[directmarketingadvice]

But you still have not defined Marketing.

Why would I?

So you see that as proof? Just because he wrote a book called direct marketing doesn't legitimise the illegitimate.

As opposed to your proof which is to take a phrase and claim it to mean whatever you say it means?

I'd suggest, with all due respect, that he has a far better claim to defining the term.

So both him and you are wrong and the clue is in the words "advertising activity" and that is what sets it apart from Marketing, because "advertising activity" is a sales process not a Marketing process.

...Which is more unsubstantiated re-defining of something.

You go off and study the subject of Marketing on Wikipedia, then come back and debate it from an informed viewpoint

Your lack of manners is exceeded only by your lack of knowledge.

Maybe you should read that wikipedia article and work out what the first sentence means.

That's the one that says:

Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services.

IMO, that says that advertising is part of marketing. After all, isn't advertising intended to create an interest in goods/services?

Steve

 

[Kernowman]

Your lack of manners is exceeded only by your lack of knowledge.

If only you knew

OK, you can't see anything other than YOUR way there is no point continuing this discussion.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

If only you knew

OK, you can't see anything other than YOUR way there is no point continuing this discussion.

You mean my way, wikipedia's way, Drayton Bird's way and everyone else's way?

I'm not the one going on about how I'm the only one on the forum who knows what marketing is. That's you.

That seems to be your thing: you know the definition and no-one else does.

Leaving aside the question about how one person can define the meaning of a phrase that's existed for decades (and always meant something else), what's even the point?

Even if you were right - which you're not - does it mean you're a marketer?

No, it means you might be qualified to work for the Oxford English Dictionary. That's about it.

So, you're right, there is no point in discussing marketing with you?

Steve

 

[patientlady]

Marketing - creates an interest
Selling - convinces you the interest is required

 

[Kernowman]

Your lack of manners is exceeded only by your lack of knowledge.
Steve

Leave it be. I dislike silly squabbles.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Marketing - who cares?
Sales - who cares?

The definition of a word makes absolutely zero difference. Just do what you need to do to make money.

PS: If I had to have an opinion, then I agree with Steve. You only have to look at long-established concepts like the 'marketing mix' to see that it's a very broad and perfectly acceptable term. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'E-mail marketing' 'telemarketing' 'PPC marketing' and so on.

In fact, these days, I think calling it 'sales' would just confuse people.

 

[S-Marketing]

I have just finished writing an e-mail to a perspective client outlining 'what we would do for them'. I cannot post it on a public forum, but pm me if you would like a copy (all industry specific information would be removed, as would all client details). I think it would answer your question.

Sorry to quote myself, how very sad. However my offer regarding information that I sent out to a propective client, outlining what initial steps we would take to sort out their strategic marketing, has led to a few PM's over night.

This information is not for general consumption i'm affraid.

Obviously with my marketing strategies being the best in the country, I dont want to end up sending any information to other consultants.

Equally, the value in the information is really only achieved fully, when the processes are carried out by myself, and when I myself, develop strategic marketing plans based on the information, and specifically tailor it to your business. Any business would stand next to no chance, using the information to formulate the plans themselves. The information is basically a list of things I would think about. If the information I sent out, would allow the client to do it without me, I'd be pretty daft to send it.

Sorry for the rant, but my genuine offer to the OP was for the OP only.

Op, I hope you found the info useful. If you have any questions, i'm more than happy to help.

 

[Kernowman]

Obviously with my marketing strategies being the best in the country

Modesty is an admirable trait

 

[S-Marketing]

Modesty is an admirable trait

You miss quoted me. I did actualy put a suitable smilie after that sentence.

Bet you thought I had been promoted, used to just be best on the forum didn't it.

 

[Be Known PR]

Marketing - creates an interest
Selling - convinces you the interest is required

Developing this further, I would actually say the Marketing creates the interest, Sales converts that interest in to money. For a business to succeed then both elements need to be working.

A number of years ago I had a client who complained that the marketing he was paying us to do was not working as his sales hadn't been increasing. We sat down and looked at the whole process and when he dug around he discovered that visits to his website had increased and telephone enquiries had almost doubled but they were not selling more than they had done previously. In this case it was not the marketing that was failing as the tools of PR, direct mailings, advertising etc had succeeeded in generating an increase in interest in the products. The problem was that the 'Sales' people were not able to convert that interest.

The marketing mix is called a 'mix' because it is just that, a boiling pot of lots of different tools and methods all with the aim of increasing interest in a product/service/business/cause in order to boost sales. If you look at big companies the 'Sales' department will often fall under the responsibility of the Marketing Director because essentially sales is just the final element of the whole marketing mix.

 

[ooh]

You only have to look at long-established concepts like the 'marketing mix' to see that it's a very broad and perfectly acceptable term. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'E-mail marketing' 'telemarketing' 'PPC marketing' and so on.

I reckon viewing marketing in an incredibly broad way is beneficial, far broader than traditionally. E.g. say you're a major supermarket, you've worked out that to get and keep ahead, locally sourced and locally processed foods are the way to go; genuinely low food miles for whatever's possible. This would require a complete overhaul of a typical supermarket's infrastructure, but you'd be doing that for marketing purposes (and even more fundamentally, efficiency and environmental reasons -- but that is marketing also). Your food sourcing and distribution decisions would be driven by, among other things, marketing concerns (product sourcing and distribution not traditionally seen as part of marketing). Once you've put these changes in place you'd then use that fact in your communications (labelling, ads etc.). When you look at marketing this way, pretty much everything and anything to do with your business, from the business plan through to the decision of which door mat is (or at least can be) part of marketing.

There's a nice little book called Baked In which kind of pushes this sort of thing. The idea is the marketing is baked into the product or service rather than added to it afterwards. It's all about action rather than talk, building it in, doing it. Counts for more. Works better.

 

[Be Known PR]

Equally, the value in the information is really only achieved fully, when the processes are carried out by myself, and when I myself, develop strategic marketing plans based on the information, and specifically tailor it to your business. Any business would stand next to no chance, using the information to formulate the plans themselves. The information is basically a list of things I would think about. If the information I sent out, would allow the client to do it without me, I'd be pretty daft to send it.

....and there was I thinking that clever strategic marketing was something the ANYONE could do in their sleep!!! :| You mean to say people pay for the benefit of your brains, experience, creativity and expertise, rather than just for what you have read in a text book?!?!?!

 

[S-Marketing]

I would also add to Be Known's post that 'process' is an intergral part of marketing. The process being the steps a client takes to actually purchase from the business. Be it navigating round a website or speaking to a sales guy on the phone, this whole part of the business is well within the scope of marketing. The use and implementation of sound marketing principles within this area, will help to achieve positive results.

 

[S-Marketing]

....and there was I thinking that clever strategic marketing was something the ANYONE could do in their sleep!!! :| You mean to say people pay for the benefit of your brains, experience, creativity and expertise, rather than just for what you have read in a text book?!?!?!

Not to mention University study, Chartered Institute Exams and many 1000's of hours research and CPD.

Its a bit like all the people you must come across who dont need your services, as they 'read a book on writing a press release'.

 

[Be Known PR]

Not to mention University study, Chartered Institute Exams and many 1000's of hours research and CPD.

Its a bit like all the people you must come across who dont need your services, as they 'read a book on writing a press release'.

ANYONE can do ANYTHING....but that doesn't mean it can be done well. I am sure I could represent myself in court, but I'd much rather get a lawyer in to do it for me and give myself the best shot of winning the case.

It ties in to your point about processes..... PR consultants shouldn't just be offering a press service, but they should be working with a client to look at how their whole image and relationship with customers/stakeholders works and how it supports the overall aim to increase business. It is about the much wider idea of reputation management, which ties in to the wider business strategy and standing up to scrutiny.

If I took a clients money to get them media coverage in the knowledge that they were p***ing their budget up the wall because the rest of the business was not in a position to benefit then I would feel extremely dishonest.

 

[laguna]

If you look at big companies the 'Sales' department will often fall under the responsibility of the Marketing Director because essentially sales is just the final element of the whole marketing mix.

Whether you use the 4C or 7C's model, sales is as much a part of marketing as it's always been since the 1950's.

 

[Devon Julie]

Marketing is communicating with your target audience and educating them as to why they should buy from you.
I suggest learning about the question funnel and the sales funnel.
Also, here are a couple great books you might want to read
The Great Sales Book - Jack Collis
Questions are the answers - Allan Pease (short book, can be read in a couple hours...)
Positioning is so vital. Stick with it and learn some techniques. You obviously have the social skills.
Best of luck.
Julie

 

[mr magoo]

Marketing - creates an interest
Selling - convinces you the interest is required

NEED PLUS DESIRE PLUS ABILITY TO PAY EQUALS SALE

 

[S-Marketing]

NEED PLUS DESIRE PLUS ABILITY TO PAY EQUALS SALE

You forgot awareness.

I love how so many people think you can tie Marketing up in a little bow, with a catchy little phrase.

 

[akirk]

NEED PLUS DESIRE PLUS ABILITY TO PAY EQUALS SALE

surely Need OR Desire

I need food / clothing - may not desire it...
I desire a new TV - def. don't need it...

Alasdair

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Marketing + product = money in my pocket

That's my little catchphrase/formula for it.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

surely Need OR Desire

I need food / clothing - may not desire it...
I desire a new TV - def. don't need it...

Alasdair

Ah, but good copywriting will make a prospect feel like they need it.

 

[S-Marketing]

Ah, but good copywriting will make a prospect feel like they need it.

Shame we dont know anyone who's any good at copywriting really.

I wonder if anyone on here knows a decent copywriter.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Shame we dont know anyone who's any good at copywriting really.

I wonder if anyone on here knows a decent copywriter.

Decent copywriters? UKBF? Nawwww.

 

[akirk]

Decent copywriters? UKBF? Nawwww.

Wasn't copywriting when you had to do lines at school?

Alasdair

 

[laguna]

Wasn't copywriting when you had to do lines at school?

Alasdair

I think that was called cheating!