SEO Pricing Model - Thoughts?

[I, Brian]

As mentioned before on other threads, some of us have also tried revenue share deals, and most of us end up burned.

A fixed price model ensures certainty for both client and provider in terms of costs. A revenue share ensures uncertainty for both.

I think it takes a rather unique business owner to engage in revenue share - after all, if there business is established, successful, and profitable, it should not need to pay high share costs when it could get cheaper flat rate costs.

 

As mentioned before on other threads, some of us have also tried revenue share deals, and most of us end up burned.

A fixed price model ensures certainty for both client and provider in terms of costs. A revenue share ensures uncertainty for both.

I think it takes a rather unique business owner to engage in revenue share - after all, if there business is established, successful, and profitable, it should not need to pay high share costs when it could get cheaper flat rate costs.

But surely that is the point they can't.

With all due respect if you got burnt then you did not do sufficient research into the business you profit shared with.?

I run 6 profit sharing sites and not one of them is doing badly apart from seasonal variations as expected.

If as an SEO you pick the right business ( right product ) and you know what you are doing its very unlikely to be a failure for anyone concerned.

Earl

 

In this case it would be all to do with traffic as you would have no other way of measuring it,

Disagree its very easy to see any growth in profit especially as a doubling of traffic is quite likely to have a significant effect on profit,sure its not going to be 100% accurate,but if all parties are honourable it will be near enough.

Plus in my case I always have access to the companies financial sales e.t.c.

Earl

 

[Silky]

In an industry full of over-inflated promises, I can see the appeal of someone who is paid on results - no clicks, no fee. We're finding organic search ranking is proving much more effective than ppc once we reached page 1 (not only because of budget) but my concern would be how to separate the SEO results from any PR induced clicks or other offline advertising. Would only new visitors be counted in the model, or would returning visitors be considered to have had their memory jogged by the site position?

Also, how long would the contract be? From your side it would be pretty damn disappointing to get a site to a high rank and then be ditched - if the terms are too restrictive it could deter potential clients however you'd need to protect your position well in this.

Good in theory but I'm not quite sure how the idea could be put into practice.....It might be worth offering it on your site to see if anyone bites?

Silky

 

[MASSEY]

I stumbled upon a site that says you pay zero until you are in the top 10 rank,

Why don't they all?

 

[SEO Lady]

Although understand the concept i would be happy to pay a percentage of my profits over and beyond my current traffic limit, saying that it is a very hard thing to prove and trust would play a very important part

Surely proving that part would be easy when you have Analytics linked to Adwords and a simple report in ecommerce or goal value / piad conversion would be easy to demonstrate?

and why pay a royalty when i could just increase my adwords spend would that not also equate to the same deal somewhere down the line.

Increasing Adwords spend - unless, perhaps a) you are in a highly competitive market and b) you are maxing your budget daily, would not neccessarily increase the conversions in every case.

If the client has budget to invest and has not previously had any SEO services, surely conversion increase should also take other associated factors like split testing, advert testing, as part of this campaign etc?

I think this is a great question to discuss and there will be many points of view to this thread.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

It might be worth offering it on your site to see if anyone bites?

I'm not an SEO, so I don't think that'd be appropriate.

(Though some might say I wouldn't be the first person who can't do SEO to take people's money...)

Steve

 

[I, Brian]

I stumbled upon a site that says you pay zero until you are in the top 10 rank,

And there's a bloke down at the chip shop swears he's Elvis...

 

[MASSEY]

And there's a bloke down at the chip shop swears he's Elvis...

So he's just like all them people that call themselves s.e.o's too

 

[I, Brian]

Good SEO's are hard to get - that's why there are so many Del Boy's looking to make easy money from ignorance.

And that's why the SEO's on this forum make an effort to use their spare time providing free tips, help, advice, to help educate everybody else.

If you can't have us, we will try and empower you anyway.

 

[SEO Lady]

Good SEO's are hard to get - that's why there are so many Del Boy's looking to make easy money from ignorance.

And that's why the SEO's on this forum make an effort to use their spare time providing free tips, help, advice, to help educate everybody else.

If you can't have us, we will try and empower you anyway.

So true - like the first time I discovered Yahoo Chat - I wouldn't stop talking about it (Mind you, that was 20 years ago)

I love giving tips to friends but then get annoyed when they still have 1,600 meta keywords months after I gave them advice

 

[MASSEY]

So true - like the first time I discovered Yahoo Chat - I wouldn't stop talking about it (Mind you, that was 20 years ago)

I love giving tips to friends but then get annoyed when they still have 1,600 meta keywords months after I gave them advice

Nina....

What is your biggest seo achievment to date?

 

[zigojacko]

So true - like the first time I discovered Yahoo Chat - I wouldn't stop talking about it (Mind you, that was 20 years ago)

I love giving tips to friends but then get annoyed when they still have 1,600 meta keywords months after I gave them advice

My friends boss thinks that to get his website ranked higher up the SERP's he has to click on it everyday. That's his idea of SEO...

So that's exactly what he does, despite my numerous advice I have passed to the company.

Some people will never listen though. Heh

 

[SEO Lady]

Nina....

What is your biggest seo achievment to date?

Google page one, position 2 in terms of SERPs, page 1 results for 5 other similar search terms, because of SERPs a) the company reduced Adword spend and b) consequently had an offer to partner with a UK national company which is currently going through. The site was launched 6 months ago.

I don't like shouting about what I have done, I just like to remember that 'google page one' feeling I got that very first time. Since then, I'm an addict and want to help others...even if they don't want it lol

 

[OldWelshGuy]

My first number 1 ranking was 1995 it was for the phrase stretch limousines I built the site, and it went to #1 on Altavista, Lycos, Alltheweb, hotbot, and all the other search engines we had to contend with, and even on dogpile which was great as lots of people used metasearch crawlers back then!

The buzz was amazing.

 

[MASSEY]

Your all just rubbin it in now aren't you

 

[Tin]

My first number 1 ranking was 1995 it was for the phrase stretch limousines I built the site, and it went to #1 on Altavista, Lycos, Alltheweb, hotbot, and all the other search engines we had to contend with, and even on dogpile which was great as lots of people used metasearch crawlers back then!

The buzz was amazing.

Blimey, that takes me back a bit. I had my first #1 across those engines but in '96 a year after you. The buzz was really nice as you hit multiple engines in a very short space of time. Them's were the days

 

[zigojacko]

Them's were the days

The days when you had to do little more than insert your meta keywords tag with the terms you wanted to rank for. Heh

 

[Ali-v-8]

We tried to buy lycos. Google beat us to it.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

With more competition comes more required effort!

 

[adventurelife]

As a buyer and not a SEO I would have not problem what so ever with a profit share deal with a quality SEO. Why? As a business owner of several businesses I know the value that it can bring to a business.

Obviously the % pf profit to the SEO would be different from an established high profit business from a start up.

As the buyer I want the SEO to be constantly interested in my projects because I am a selfish git I do not want him being distracted chasing lots of new clients. How do I keep him interested ? by paying him more money from higher profits.

If I was a top level SEO that could truly deliver I would want to work with a small select bunch of business owners who can run businesses that produce substantial profit and have a % of the profits and the business.

Many SEO lone wolves or really small companies have nothing to sell on when they want to get out, better to have a small % of some really profitable companies that pay you a regular % of profit and a nice lump sum when sold.

No more difficult than cutting any other business deal just get the agreement documented and signed.

 

As a buyer and not a SEO I would have not problem what so ever with a profit share deal with a quality SEO. Why? As a business owner of several businesses I know the value that it can bring to a business.

Obviously the % pf profit to the SEO would be different from an established high profit business from a start up.

As the buyer I want the SEO to be constantly interested in my projects because I am a selfish git I do not want him being distracted chasing lots of new clients. How do I keep him interested ? by paying him more money from higher profits.

If I was a top level SEO that could truly deliver I would want to work with a small select bunch of business owners who can run businesses that produce substantial profit and have a % of the profits and the business.

Many SEO lone wolves or really small companies have nothing to sell on when they want to get out, better to have a small % of some really profitable companies that pay you a regular % of profit and a nice lump sum when sold.

No more difficult than cutting any other business deal just get the agreement documented and signed.

Now if I said"you took the words out of my mouth"

would you believe me.?

As I have said many times before product,product,product.

The all important aspect of any business.

Trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear is a hard road to take.

Earl

 

[Ali-v-8]

I have been offered a revenue share from a client to seo their website.
I convinced them that they needed some amount of work on their cube cart website and my charge was £5,000 + £1,500 per month. She had been trading since November. I started to do the work middle February. March was a massive result for her as her maximum take was £1,000 prior to me taking over.
I did social media at the end of March. (£2,000).
Below shows the results so far.

When SEO works well the rewards can be very very very very very Good

 

I have been offered a revenue share from a client to seo their website.
I convinced them that they needed some amount of work on their cube cart website and my charge was £5,000 + £1,500 per month.

How is that a revenue share.?:|

Earl

 

[SFD]

When SEO works well the rewards can be very very very very very Good

You are SEO'ing a site which sells drugs like methedrone?

http://www.wide-mouth-frog.com

Anything to make a few quid eh

 

[Ali-v-8]

Wide mouth is a client but is the one listed.
I am an optimiser ask and you shall receive
As for any website I did refused nick griffins website

You are SEO'ing a site which sells drugs like methedrone?

http://www.wide-mouth-frog.com

Anything to make a few quid eh

 

[Ali-v-8]

Sorry but i miss wrote it.
She offered me revenue share but i charged a fixed fee.
If I had took the revenue share I would be very happy chappy.

How is that a revenue share.?:|

Earl

 

[SFD]

http://www.wide-mouth-frog.com/cache/59e7c9f1421466832c65487124cf83af.png

Wonder why she has someone else's stats in her cache then.

If my SEO posted up on a public forum my stats and boasting about how much they were charging me I would be pretty pissed off

 

If my SEO posted up on a public forum my stats and boasting about how much they were charging me I would be pretty pissed off

well looking at those sales stats I would say Ali is undercharging not boasting.?:|

Earl

 

[directmarketingadvice]

As the buyer I want the SEO to be constantly interested in my projects because I am a selfish git I do not want him being distracted chasing lots of new clients. How do I keep him interested ? by paying him more money from higher profits.

This is a very important point. Maybe too big and too important a point for page 7 of a thead that's already a month old.

If someone were to start a thread about how to hire - and keep - really good marketers, I think some interesting advice would come out.

(From both sides of the table.)

Steve

 

[SFD]

well looking at those sales stats I would say Ali is undercharging not boasting.?:|

Earl

How has he undercharged?

Has the amount of competition suddenly increased, has he had to put in any extra effort or outlay?

 

How has he undercharged?

Has the amount of competition suddenly increased, has he had to put in any extra effort or outlay?

going from 1k sales to 90k a month.

one assumes quite a high margin on those products.

shot himself in the foot by not taking a share of the profits.

Earl

 

[SFD]

going from 1k sales to 90k a month.

one assumes quite a high margin on those products.

shot himself in the foot by not taking a share of the profits.

Earl

Appearing top of adwords for all the searches must be costing a fair whack each month, if only the organic results were as good.

 

[Ali-v-8]

Yes earl I did shoot my self in the foot.
My point was SDF that if i had taken revenue share I would have been quids in.
PPC and SEO are both hand in hand gambles.
You need to spend money to get visitors and revenue shares can make you work harder.
But there is a saying " you can take a horse to water, but you cant make it drink"

 

[SFD]

Yes earl I did shoot my self in the foot.
My point was SDF that if i had taken revenue share I would have been quids in.
PPC and SEO are both hand in hand gambles.
You need to spend money to get visitors and revenue shares can make you work harder.
But there is a saying " you can take a horse to water, but you cant make it drink"

PPC isn't a gamble, see what is profitable, refine it, increase spend.

Where is the gamble?

The domain was only registered on 7th Jan this year so doubt there would be a lot of turnover on the website before that date and the website probably didn't appear instantly so not surprised the months before starting PPC were so bad.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

PPC isn't a gamble, see what is profitable, refine it, increase spend.

Where is the gamble?

Exactly. It's a test. If you lose, you lose small. If you win, you win big.

It's what Claude Hopkins called "playing on the safe side of a hundred to one shot".

In business, you have to try things. Some will work and some won't. But, as long as the things you try can be repeated over and over with little extra effort, the risks are small and the odds are massively in your favour.

One downside of SEO is that it tends to be "all in".

(I suppose you could SEO for weak keywords and then use the profits from those to re-SEO the site for more competitive ones, but it's not really the same thing.)

Steve

 

[Ali-v-8]

PPC for WMF was not done till april

PPC isn't a gamble, see what is profitable, refine it, increase spend.

Where is the gamble?

The domain was only registered on 7th Jan this year so doubt there would be a lot of turnover on the website before that date and the website probably didn't appear instantly so not surprised the months before starting PPC were so bad.

 

[Ali-v-8]

There is always a gamble until its tested.
Just because you get someone to your website and they are searching for the product you offer does not mean they will buy.
The gamble is spending the money to make money.

PPC isn't a gamble, see what is profitable, refine it, increase spend.

Where is the gamble?

The domain was only registered on 7th Jan this year so doubt there would be a lot of turnover on the website before that date and the website probably didn't appear instantly so not surprised the months before starting PPC were so bad.

 

PPC and SEO are both hand in hand gambles.

not sure on PPC but with SEO I see no gamble.?

You research the product.

Research the competition.

If everything stacks up you

Implement.

Earl

 

[I, Brian]

not sure on PPC but with SEO I see no gamble.?

It shouldn't be - if the SEO company is good.

For example, for major competitive link building, there's little point taking on a business website that has less than 2 years good search history in Google.

Sure, you can target longtail keywords, less competitive ones, and do some general link profile building that should help - but you are absolutely not going to compete for "credit cards" or "loans" with a brand new website.

However, there are a lot of bottom-feeder companies out there that are all sales and no substance - promise the earth, but run with the money (we see various companies exposed on this forum).

In which case, the gamble in terms of SEO is the client finding a company that can deliver both what they want and what they need.