Worldpay have held my funds for over 13 months

[beaniceperson]

Hi Guys

I run a respectable web design agency with a lot of local and national established and respectable clients.

I have had a worldpay account for several years and in that time I ran it perfectly not missing a single payment owed to them and not having a single chargeback.

I had a client pay a little over £2k for a job, it was £2089 to be exact and Worldpay decided it was classed as a high risk payment and to hold it for 180 days. To which I responded well that isn't ideal as cash flow is important to me so can you refund it to my client and I will request an alternative payment method. They responded to say that isn't possible and I need to ask them to perform a chargeback! I explained that I don't want them to do that as it would tarnish my record as having a client perform a chargeback on me and also what grounds would they have to request a charge back? It would also incur a fee and I can't expect my client to pay that. Worldpay assured me that provided the client was happy after the 180 day period the payment would be released and they have no reason to keep it past the 180 day point. The reason is because a client has 180 days to request a charge back and after this time they can not so the merchant is happy to then release payment as they are taking no risk.

So in good faith and placing my trust in worldpay I decided to wait the 180 days and have the project done in the absence of my funds being released to me by Worldpay. At the end of the day they have said it would be released to me and a big company like Worldpay backed by the RBS surely wouldn't lie about it. It would also save an awkward conversation with my client and I am confident in our ability to provide a service the client is happy with.

After waiting patiently 180 days I was told the account and payment needed to be further reviewed, to which a request for further details from me was made. I provided evidence of work, and also all my clients sign sales agreements so I provided this as well that showed all the legal framework and terms of sale as well as amount and date.

After waiting several more months! I have now been told that a decision has carefully been made to refuse release of my funds and that they will be held indefinitely. I am also free to make an official complaint but if I do they must stop liaising with me.

The transaction took place in July 2017, it is now August 2018 and I have no money. I have the option of going to court or making a form complaint and going down the Financial Ombudsman or thirdly repeatedly asking and begging for my own funds.

What do I do? Or do I just accept that Worldpay have legally taken my funds.

 

[BenJeffery]

Wow that is insane! Definitely a complaint with the Ombudsman, you clearly can't trust WorldPay to resolve this.

 

[Mr D]

So whats been happening for the past 7 months?

 

[Steven001]

This sounds like theft!
If you have all the necessary digital information to back up your case I would approach the Police and obtain a crime reference number. WorldPay should have no legal right to withhold your money unless you have committed a criminal act or the customer has filed an appeal to reclaim the money due to dissatisfaction with the service you have provided, or non delivery of the service.

Hope you get your money.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

WorldPay should have no legal right to withhold your money unless you have committed a criminal act or the customer has filed an appeal to reclaim the money due to dissatisfaction with the service you have provided, or non delivery of the service.

Is there anything in the T&Cs of the contract you have with WorldPay which says they can do this?
I suspect the police would politely ask you to jog on.

 

[finleydesign]

If everything is exactly as you suggest, use money online to file a claim, costs about £30

Submit your claim in the most basic form, can't imagine for one minute a solicitor would happily sit in front of a judge and just say we are just keeping it!

They have a duty to mitigate any loss, as such they forced you into the 180 day wait

If they attempt to refer to any terms or conditions, simply file an "unfair term of contract" defence, this will force them to spend thousands on trying to convince a judge their term isn't unfair, the onus is on them to prove it's not unfair.

 

[Steven001]

I suspect the police would politely ask you to jog on.

Theft is a criminal act, the Police are the appropriate authority to deal with this but they probably won't because as I and many others have found out the Police seem to side with large corporations over the individual. Still, it's worth a try and doesn't cost anything.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Theft is a criminal act, the Police are the appropriate authority to deal with this but they probably won't because as I and many others have found out the Police seem to side with large corporations over the individual. Still, it's worth a try and doesn't cost anything.

Yes theft is a criminal act, however WorldPay are likely to have this covered somewhere in their terms and conditions - much more likely than a company with a billion dollars in revenue risking their entire existence by stealing £2,000.
That would make this a contractual dispute, thus a civil matter.

Not saying its right, just that the police will not be interested.

 

[Mr D]

Theft is a criminal act, the Police are the appropriate authority to deal with this but they probably won't because as I and many others have found out the Police seem to side with large corporations over the individual. Still, it's worth a try and doesn't cost anything.

Police take the details and give a crime number?
I hear they do that sometimes.

Last 2 thefts I've reported to the police I was told to report to the action fraud people. Far as I know neither was actioned.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I am sure that WP would have covered themselves in the t and c s

 

[HostXNow]

So glad I never used WorldPay if that is what they do. I always had PayPal since started doing business but set up a WorldPay account as a backup and they approved my account, but again, so glad I never used them if this is how they treat their customers.

Of course, the user who only has one post here and has not posted since, and so not easy to trust it 100%, but it sounds genuine enough? A rep from WorldPay is free to clear things up here. If they don't it'll lose WorldPay sales for sure.

 

[Mr D]

So glad I never used WorldPay if that is what they do. I always had PayPal since started doing business but set up a WorldPay account as a backup and they approved my account, but again, so glad I never used them if this is how they treat their customers.

Of course, the user who only has one post here and has not posted since, and so not easy to trust it 100%, but it sounds genuine enough? A rep from WorldPay is free to clear things up here. If they don't it'll lose WorldPay sales for sure.

Worldpay is big enough that this sounds like a minor blip. Not happening to all their customers.
Been using worldpay for years to pay various companies for goods or services. They still use the service so must be paying them.

Minor blips can happen to anyone. I can find you horror stories about paypal keeping funds.
And like you I use paypal in business.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

So glad I never used WorldPay if that is what they do. I always had PayPal since started doing business but set up a WorldPay account as a backup and they approved my account, but again, so glad I never used them if this is how they treat their customers.

Of course, the user who only has one post here and has not posted since, and so not easy to trust it 100%, but it sounds genuine enough? A rep from WorldPay is free to clear things up here. If they don't it'll lose WorldPay sales for sure.

Its the same with paypal if you don't take the right precautions then it is no good just depending on paypal because again They know you are liable at the end of the day

 

[beaniceperson]

So whats been happening for the past 7 months?

All the correspondence discussed has been over the last 7 months, countless promises to have returned calls not happening. The initial 180 day wait on my part as requested by Worldpay was provided. Worldpay act at a Snail pace

 

[beaniceperson]

Is there anything in the T&Cs of the contract you have with WorldPay which says they can do this?
I suspect the police would politely ask you to jog on.

Correct, they have a clause under the terms and conditions of service with me which they are quick to quote and email a copy over stating they have the right to "indefinitely" hold funds. A company as big as worldpay I am afraid act legally. I am not sure if the best route is solicitor and court or financial ombudsman at this point, but I need to make a formal complaint prior to involving them.

The actual wording they put
"Thank you for the documents that you have previously provided. We have now conducted our final review of the transactions, business and documents provided. The outcome of this review has determined that Worldpay are not in a position to release these funds.


Worldpay are entitled to withhold sums under the terms of the contract, specifically clauses:


5.4 In addition to our rights under clauses 5.2 and 5.3, we may defer any amount we are obliged to pay you:


(C) without limit in amount or time, if we become aware or reasonably believe that you are in breach of or likely to be in breach of your

obligations under this Agreement.


Funds may be retained by Worldpay in the event that it cannot be confirmed that a genuine transaction has taken place. The contract definition of a “Transaction” is any payment by a Buyer for goods and/or services purchased by a Buyer from and provided by you, using either:

(A) a Card, a Card number or otherwise to debit or credit the applicable Card account; or

(B) an Alternative Payment Method,


If you wish to make an official compliant, please see our complaints procedure (attached) Please be advised that in making a complaint, this will not change the outcome of this decision.


If you want to dispute this decision we would advise that you may wish to seek legal advice. If you take the decision to seek legal advice, all further communication must be made through your, and Worldpays legal representatives.

"

 

[beaniceperson]

Worldpay is big enough that this sounds like a minor blip. Not happening to all their customers.
Been using worldpay for years to pay various companies for goods or services. They still use the service so must be paying them.

Minor blips can happen to anyone. I can find you horror stories about paypal keeping funds.
And like you I use paypal in business.

Yes but it can be you that has the blip...

I had been with them for years myself and thought of myself as special to Worldpay due to the fact I ran my account perfectly for so many years and referred friends. And the staff came to my office when the account was open so I felt like I knew them on a personal level. They was always so nice but then one day they just turned on me

 

[beaniceperson]

At this point guys I just need some advice on what I should do next as I am out of pocket and Worldpay have made it clear this is a final decision and as far as they are concerned there is nothing further to be discussed with me

I am new here and haven't posted before as I haven't had a bad experience online and didn't need to post previously. After some searching about I decided this forum was the most relevant forum to post a request for assistance / guidance

 

[Mr D]

Yes but it can be you that has the blip...

I had been with them for years myself and thought of myself as special to Worldpay due to the fact I ran my account perfectly for so many years and referred friends. And the staff came to my office when the account was open so I felt like I knew them on a personal level. They was always so nice but then one day they just turned on me

Indeed have been the blip. With a massive organisation.

There isn't any loyalty in business overriding the business. Presumably they feel justified in acting as they have?

 

[Mr D]

At this point guys I just need some advice on what I should do next as I am out of pocket and Worldpay have made it clear this is a final decision and as far as they are concerned there is nothing further to be discussed with me

I am new here and haven't posted before as I haven't had a bad experience online and didn't need to post previously. After some searching about I decided this forum was the most relevant forum to post a request for assistance / guidance

Question is, how much do you want to spend?
Legal action? Expensive and time consuming. If your own legal people believe you can win then maybe.

There may be other options. Not necessarily ones that achieve anything.

 

[beaniceperson]

Exactly my thoughts is it worth it? Any solicitor is most likely not going to commit to saying yes you will or no you won't win. And they are always in a good position as they get paid irrespective of the final outcome.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Have WorldPay said anything about the reason why they're withholding the funds? I know there's some vague stuff about reasons why they might above but have they said anything specific about why a particular transaction has led them to withhold the funds?

 

[TotalWebSolutions]

Have WorldPay said anything about the reason why they're withholding the funds? I know there's some vague stuff about reasons why they might above but have they said anything specific about why a particular transaction has led them to withhold the funds?

Exactly my thoughts on this. There must be something specific to this transaction that they really don't like if they have never had a problem with your transaction previously (presuming they have always been for the same/similar services). What have they said about other transactions that have gone through around the same time (and since) ? Are they now classing you as a high-risk business or is this a one-off isolated case?

 

[beaniceperson]

Hi they refuse to provide me any further details.

As I say I’ve not had any issue before at all

They say their stance is final and as the decision can not be changed. I am not even worthy of a detailed explanation I am really disappointed in how my account has been handled. I am just amazed they can do this to the point I felt I had to share it with the forum to see what everyone else’s thoughts are on this and what my next move should be.

I literally have been told only what I’ve already told the forum in previous posts. It’s disgusting behaviour even if it may be legal. On a moral level I deserve real explanations not references to generic clauses in an agreement.

Worldpay forget we are not just numbers

 

[Aytsham Akhtar]

World Pay is robbing its clients blindly based on 'it says in our terms and conditions'.

My account with world pay was closed over 2 years ago and they withheld £1650 as in their words they thought it was a 'suspicious of a transaction'. I was being dealt with a extremely rude and very frustrated man by the name of 'Paul on the transaction monitoring team. To be fair none of the staff in any of the departments i dealt with were competent enough which explains why they rank 55th out of 55 companies.

I was told by this Paul to provide all recipients etc which i did, to which at first i was told this is a handwritten receipt then after me explaining this is how we write our receipts for goods as we are a new business, like a million other businesses out there . He said ok but they will hold the funds for 120 days and then if there wasn't a recall we would release the funds to you. But obviously this is a tactic they use frequently reading the comments in a few different forum just so there is no chance of a recall, as they know they cant take on the banks. So they wait for this time to lapse so that legally the banks cant get it back and then they just keep this money which they technically have robbed off us small businesses.

Anyway after the 120 days when I inquired the same person called Paul, told me that they were holding the funds indefinitely and that i should get legal advice. I suppose they work on a balance of probabilities that how many people would go to court or seek legal advice bearing in mind the added costs, so its easy takings for them. If they do that to a tenth of their customers they can make millions ( which they probably do).

I wasn't going to let them get away with it so i followed their complaints procedure and raised numerous complaints to which i just wouldn't get a response to. I would phone in and be passed around from department to department. Each time i would be promised a call back but in over 2 years never received a call back.
Then after over 2 years of trying to get a answer to my complaint i contacted the Financial Ombudsman Service a few months ago and explained everything to them. They then helpfully wrote to world pay and asked them to send me a final answer to my complaint so that if it was a negative answer then they could look into it.
Obviously it was negative response and the Financial Ombudsman Service is dealing with it. I have had a initial response from them and the adjudicator has said that she believes the World pay has acted within their terms and conditions. I've disagreed with her initial response so she will hopefully look at it again.

I am absolutely disgusted that how have world pay been able to get away with doing this to companies like mine for such a long time now. I think its about time that there terms and conditions are fully dissected by the regulatory bodies and re-wrote so they can not get away with such day light robberies.

Can anyone advise on this. As the ombudsman route isn't looking good.

 

[quikshop]

I got Renault to cancel a PCP car contract for a friend earlier this year by making a lot of noise. I was all over the local garages and main Renault social media pages, I contacted the Telegraph and local papers asking if they'd take up the story. I also let Renault know I was making this a national news item.

The Telegraph reporter was very keen to talk further about the story but the local dealership changed their mind and cancelled my friends PCP contract without penalty and took the car back.

I suspect Worldpay would be a tougher nut to crack but if you are single minded enough to make polite but persistent noise you might get a "gesture of goodwill" from them. I'd definitely go down the newspaper route though, they're always looking for good copy.

Good luck!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

As a first option take out a money claim against them via the couts or get legal representation

If its been going on this long it is most probably to do with money laundering

 

[MikeCC]

At the very least, make sure you have another merchant account set up before going further.

If they are relying on their contract terms, they should be able to give you evidence of why they believe the position is as they say.

Have you tried CEO-level letter explaining your case? If no joy after that, then a letter before action asking for payment within 14 days. Maybe get a solicitor to draft so it is robust. Make sure it goes to the right place. If no payment, file claim.

Ombudsman route might work but will take months. However you might get compensation that way.

RBS have no stake in WorldPay - they are owned by US-based Vantiv.

 

[adamuk18]

They are crooks!

Last year I had an account with them and they held on to 15k of my money. I had a customer do a charge back for 10k and got the money but had to wait for the other 5.

I actually stopped taking card payment for that particular business over £100 and instead used to accept cheques or BACS.

never caused me any problems with customers.