Worldpay have held my funds for over 13 months

Discussion in 'Ecommerce Forum' started by beaniceperson, Aug 10, 2018.

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  1. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1
    Hi Guys

    I run a respectable web design agency with a lot of local and national established and respectable clients.

    I have had a worldpay account for several years and in that time I ran it perfectly not missing a single payment owed to them and not having a single chargeback.

    I had a client pay a little over £2k for a job, it was £2089 to be exact and Worldpay decided it was classed as a high risk payment and to hold it for 180 days. To which I responded well that isn't ideal as cash flow is important to me so can you refund it to my client and I will request an alternative payment method. They responded to say that isn't possible and I need to ask them to perform a chargeback! I explained that I don't want them to do that as it would tarnish my record as having a client perform a chargeback on me and also what grounds would they have to request a charge back? It would also incur a fee and I can't expect my client to pay that. Worldpay assured me that provided the client was happy after the 180 day period the payment would be released and they have no reason to keep it past the 180 day point. The reason is because a client has 180 days to request a charge back and after this time they can not so the merchant is happy to then release payment as they are taking no risk.

    So in good faith and placing my trust in worldpay I decided to wait the 180 days and have the project done in the absence of my funds being released to me by Worldpay. At the end of the day they have said it would be released to me and a big company like Worldpay backed by the RBS surely wouldn't lie about it. It would also save an awkward conversation with my client and I am confident in our ability to provide a service the client is happy with.

    After waiting patiently 180 days I was told the account and payment needed to be further reviewed, to which a request for further details from me was made. I provided evidence of work, and also all my clients sign sales agreements so I provided this as well that showed all the legal framework and terms of sale as well as amount and date.

    After waiting several more months! I have now been told that a decision has carefully been made to refuse release of my funds and that they will be held indefinitely. I am also free to make an official complaint but if I do they must stop liaising with me.

    The transaction took place in July 2017, it is now August 2018 and I have no money. I have the option of going to court or making a form complaint and going down the Financial Ombudsman or thirdly repeatedly asking and begging for my own funds.

    What do I do? Or do I just accept that Worldpay have legally taken my funds.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #1
  2. BenJeffery

    BenJeffery UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    14 1
    Wow that is insane! Definitely a complaint with the Ombudsman, you clearly can't trust WorldPay to resolve this.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: BenJeffery Member since: Apr 10, 2007
    #2
  3. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,309 3,082
    So whats been happening for the past 7 months?
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
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  4. Steven001

    Steven001 UKBF Regular Free Member

    162 9
    This sounds like theft!
    If you have all the necessary digital information to back up your case I would approach the Police and obtain a crime reference number. WorldPay should have no legal right to withhold your money unless you have committed a criminal act or the customer has filed an appeal to reclaim the money due to dissatisfaction with the service you have provided, or non delivery of the service.

    Hope you get your money.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Steven001 Member since: Aug 1, 2018
    #4
  5. Gordon - Commercial Finance

    Gordon - Commercial Finance UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Is there anything in the T&Cs of the contract you have with WorldPay which says they can do this?
    I suspect the police would politely ask you to jog on.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Gordon - Commercial Finance Member since: Jun 26, 2017
    #5
  6. finleydesign

    finleydesign UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    636 138
    If everything is exactly as you suggest, use money online to file a claim, costs about £30

    Submit your claim in the most basic form, can't imagine for one minute a solicitor would happily sit in front of a judge and just say we are just keeping it!

    They have a duty to mitigate any loss, as such they forced you into the 180 day wait

    If they attempt to refer to any terms or conditions, simply file an "unfair term of contract" defence, this will force them to spend thousands on trying to convince a judge their term isn't unfair, the onus is on them to prove it's not unfair.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: finleydesign Member since: Mar 15, 2012
    #6
  7. Steven001

    Steven001 UKBF Regular Free Member

    162 9
    Theft is a criminal act, the Police are the appropriate authority to deal with this but they probably won't because as I and many others have found out the Police seem to side with large corporations over the individual. Still, it's worth a try and doesn't cost anything.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Steven001 Member since: Aug 1, 2018
    #7
  8. Gordon - Commercial Finance

    Gordon - Commercial Finance UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Yes theft is a criminal act, however WorldPay are likely to have this covered somewhere in their terms and conditions - much more likely than a company with a billion dollars in revenue risking their entire existence by stealing £2,000.
    That would make this a contractual dispute, thus a civil matter.

    Not saying its right, just that the police will not be interested.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Gordon - Commercial Finance Member since: Jun 26, 2017
    #8
  9. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Police take the details and give a crime number?
    I hear they do that sometimes.

    Last 2 thefts I've reported to the police I was told to report to the action fraud people. Far as I know neither was actioned.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #9
  10. JEREMY HAWKE

    JEREMY HAWKE UKBF Legend Full Member

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    I am sure that WP would have covered themselves in the t and c s
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: JEREMY HAWKE Member since: Mar 4, 2008
    #10
  11. HostXNow

    HostXNow UKBF Regular Full Member

    440 35
    So glad I never used WorldPay if that is what they do. I always had PayPal since started doing business but set up a WorldPay account as a backup and they approved my account, but again, so glad I never used them if this is how they treat their customers.

    Of course, the user who only has one post here and has not posted since, and so not easy to trust it 100%, but it sounds genuine enough? A rep from WorldPay is free to clear things up here. If they don't it'll lose WorldPay sales for sure.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: HostXNow Member since: Mar 7, 2011
    #11
  12. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,309 3,082
    Worldpay is big enough that this sounds like a minor blip. Not happening to all their customers.
    Been using worldpay for years to pay various companies for goods or services. They still use the service so must be paying them.

    Minor blips can happen to anyone. I can find you horror stories about paypal keeping funds.
    And like you I use paypal in business.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #12
  13. JEREMY HAWKE

    JEREMY HAWKE UKBF Legend Full Member

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    Its the same with paypal if you don't take the right precautions then it is no good just depending on paypal because again They know you are liable at the end of the day
     
    Posted: Aug 11, 2018 By: JEREMY HAWKE Member since: Mar 4, 2008
    #13
  14. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1
    All the correspondence discussed has been over the last 7 months, countless promises to have returned calls not happening. The initial 180 day wait on my part as requested by Worldpay was provided. Worldpay act at a Snail pace
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #14
  15. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1

    Correct, they have a clause under the terms and conditions of service with me which they are quick to quote and email a copy over stating they have the right to "indefinitely" hold funds. A company as big as worldpay I am afraid act legally. I am not sure if the best route is solicitor and court or financial ombudsman at this point, but I need to make a formal complaint prior to involving them.


    The actual wording they put
    "Thank you for the documents that you have previously provided. We have now conducted our final review of the transactions, business and documents provided. The outcome of this review has determined that Worldpay are not in a position to release these funds.


    Worldpay are entitled to withhold sums under the terms of the contract, specifically clauses:


    5.4 In addition to our rights under clauses 5.2 and 5.3, we may defer any amount we are obliged to pay you:


    (C) without limit in amount or time, if we become aware or reasonably believe that you are in breach of or likely to be in breach of your

    obligations under this Agreement.


    Funds may be retained by Worldpay in the event that it cannot be confirmed that a genuine transaction has taken place. The contract definition of a “Transaction” is any payment by a Buyer for goods and/or services purchased by a Buyer from and provided by you, using either:

    (A) a Card, a Card number or otherwise to debit or credit the applicable Card account; or

    (B) an Alternative Payment Method,


    If you wish to make an official compliant, please see our complaints procedure (attached) Please be advised that in making a complaint, this will not change the outcome of this decision.


    If you want to dispute this decision we would advise that you may wish to seek legal advice. If you take the decision to seek legal advice, all further communication must be made through your, and Worldpays legal representatives.

    "
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #15
  16. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1
    Yes but it can be you that has the blip...

    I had been with them for years myself and thought of myself as special to Worldpay due to the fact I ran my account perfectly for so many years and referred friends. And the staff came to my office when the account was open so I felt like I knew them on a personal level. They was always so nice but then one day they just turned on me
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #16
  17. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1
    At this point guys I just need some advice on what I should do next as I am out of pocket and Worldpay have made it clear this is a final decision and as far as they are concerned there is nothing further to be discussed with me :(

    I am new here and haven't posted before as I haven't had a bad experience online and didn't need to post previously. After some searching about I decided this forum was the most relevant forum to post a request for assistance / guidance
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #17
  18. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,309 3,082
    Indeed have been the blip. With a massive organisation.

    There isn't any loyalty in business overriding the business. Presumably they feel justified in acting as they have?
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #18
  19. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    25,309 3,082

    Question is, how much do you want to spend?
    Legal action? Expensive and time consuming. If your own legal people believe you can win then maybe.

    There may be other options. Not necessarily ones that achieve anything.
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #19
  20. beaniceperson

    beaniceperson UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    7 1
    Exactly my thoughts is it worth it? Any solicitor is most likely not going to commit to saying yes you will or no you won't win. And they are always in a good position as they get paid irrespective of the final outcome.
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 By: beaniceperson Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #20
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