Wordpress Full Site Editing - I'm confused

[DanH]

I've been running a couple of Woocommerce installations for a couple of years using WP Astra/Elementor and a ton of plugins to get the job done in as WYSIWIG way as possible. It's kinda worked, apart from the incessant plugin updates. Those websites are about to disappear from my remit soon. However, I want to learn a bit more about Wordpress's native Full Site Editing capabilities so plan to experiment with a few simple personal sites.

I understand that, although in its infancy, FSE is potentially a replacement for page builders like Elementor, utilising blocks instead of widgets. When I think of Elementor and themes like WPAstra, I think of the expense of licenses for WP Astra Pro and Elementor Pro and the incessant updates. When I think of what I have read about FSE I think of 'free' and, although more limited than the plethora of funky widgets in Elementor, it has the ability to create decent 'basic' websites.

What I am not quite understanding is, apart from Wordpress's native 2023 etc themes that use FSE, are all these FSE themes built using whatever is freely available in Worpdress..or are they utilising extras? I often see a free FSE theme like Bricksy but then I see it has a Pro version with a price similar to other themes. Are these Pro versions built the same way or are they charging for more effort using (free) native Wordpress? And if I'm paying for a Pro FSE theme, why do I want it more so than another traditional non-FSE theme priced the same?

Maybe I'm being thick but it is confusing...even ChatGPT couldn't explain it to me!

 

[fisicx]

FSE means you use blocks to change every part of the site not just the page content. I’ve had a play and it’s not very good.

Far simpler to just choose a theme you like and not fiddle with the layout. Nobody really cares. You visitors are only interested in your products. If the images and descriptions are good then the layout is almost irrelevant.

 

[antropy]

FSE means you use blocks to change every part of the site not just the page content. I’ve had a play and it’s not very good.

Meanwhile, decent enterprise CMSs like ConcreteCMS have had this sort of functionality for literally decades but for some bizarre reason the sheer number of bedroom web developers who love WordPress has made WP the most popular platform when it's far from the best / easiest / fastest etc.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

Agree it’s not the best. But it earns me a living so I’m not complaining.

Biggest issue is still bloated themes and plugins. People fill up their sites with crud then complain it’s slow and doesn’t work. Elementor and it’s like being one of the biggest culprits.

 

[antropy]

Agree it’s not the best. But it earns me a living so I’m not complaining.

Biggest issue is still bloated themes and plugins. People fill up their sites with crud then complain it’s slow and doesn’t work. Elementor and it’s like being one of the biggest culprits.

Often WP sites do end up looking very good, but as serious developers who experience of other platforms we're always scratching our heads about how it became the most widely used.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

Often WP sites do end up looking very good, but as serious developers who experience of other platforms we're always scratching our heads about how it became the most widely used.

Great marketing. Something WP does well but the likes of concrete doesn’t.

 

[antropy]

Great marketing. Something WP does well but the likes of concrete doesn’t.

Yep, that does seem to be the case with a lot of products - the best product loses out to the best marketed product ?‍

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

That being said, you can self-host wp. Most other CMS platform only offer hosted solutions. The self hosting is a key part of the success of wp.

 

[antropy]

That being said, you can self-host wp. Most other CMS platform only offer hosted solutions. The self hosting is a key part of the success of wp.

There are loads of free and open source CMSs, including Concrete.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

There are loads of free and open source CMSs, including Concrete.

Paul.

But they don’t have a one-click install. I tried concrete but I needed to create a db for the install. Same with others I’ve tried. Things might have improved but I gave up as it was too much hassle.

My mum installed wp and set up a site without any help from me. Can’t think of any other that are as simple.

 

[antropy]

But they don’t have a one-click install. I tried concrete but I needed to create a db for the install.

You can install it with a few clicks through Softaculous.

Paul.

 

[DanH]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is I want to learn WP to the point I'm not dependent on themes/plugins etc When I look at what you've achieved Graham, self-taught (I think), build your own themes/plugins, I think I'd like to casually get to that point too! #inspirational

 

[antropy]

not dependent on themes/plugins etc

I'd like to casually get to that point too!

No worries, you'll need to code all day every day for about 2-3 years

Paul.

 

[DanH]

No worries, you'll need to code all day every day for about 2-3 years

Paul.

You're just saying that to get me to try Concrete...

I reckon Graham learnt in a few months...Graham?

 

[antropy]

You're just saying that to get me to try Concrete...

You'd need longer than that to learn to develop code for Concrete, it's pretty complex.

Paul.

 

[DanH]

You'd need longer than that to learn to develop code for Concrete, it's pretty complex.

Paul.

Ah well, back to WP it is then...!

 

[fisicx]

I reckon Graham learnt in a few months...Graham?

It took me about a week to build my first ever theme. I then just learnt how to do new things as I needed them. The Wordpress codex is excellent and there are bazillions of tutorials and code examples to refer to. Some things were relatively simple. More complex functions took ages to get to work. For example JavaScript form submission with Ajax - that was a major achievement.

The trick is to stop prevaricating and just do it

 

[DanH]

It took me about a week to build my first ever theme. I then just learnt how to do new things as I needed them. The Wordpress codex is excellent and there are bazillions of tutorials and code examples to refer to. Some things were relatively simple. More complex functions took ages to get to work. For example JavaScript form submission with Ajax - that was a major achievement.

The trick is to stop prevaricating and just do it

I prefer procrastinating personally....or do I, let me think? Anyway, thanks!

 

[UKSBD]

I think the best way to learn is to get a basic wordpress theme twenty nineteen or similar, make a back up of header.php, footer.php then create your own versions of them and start playing.

Better still - name it header-test.php then create a template that pulls in header-test.php instead of header.php

 

[fisicx]

And if that’s confusing, this is why @UKSBD made the suggestion:

Template Hierarchy | Theme Developer Handbook | WordPress Developer Resources

As discussed, template files are modular, reusable files, used to generate the web pages on your WordPress site. Some template files (such…

developer.wordpress.org

 

[Russ Michaels]

I've been running a couple of Woocommerce installations for a couple of years using WP Astra/Elementor and a ton of plugins to get the job done in as WYSIWIG way as possible. It's kinda worked, apart from the incessant plugin updates. Those websites are about to disappear from my remit soon. However, I want to learn a bit more about Wordpress's native Full Site Editing capabilities so plan to experiment with a few simple personal sites.

I understand that, although in its infancy, FSE is potentially a replacement for page builders like Elementor, utilising blocks instead of widgets. When I think of Elementor and themes like WPAstra, I think of the expense of licenses for WP Astra Pro and Elementor Pro and the incessant updates. When I think of what I have read about FSE I think of 'free' and, although more limited than the plethora of funky widgets in Elementor, it has the ability to create decent 'basic' websites.

What I am not quite understanding is, apart from Wordpress's native 2023 etc themes that use FSE, are all these FSE themes built using whatever is freely available in Worpdress..or are they utilising extras? I often see a free FSE theme like Bricksy but then I see it has a Pro version with a price similar to other themes. Are these Pro versions built the same way or are they charging for more effort using (free) native Wordpress? And if I'm paying for a Pro FSE theme, why do I want it more so than another traditional non-FSE theme priced the same?

Maybe I'm being thick but it is confusing...even ChatGPT couldn't explain it to me!

the FSE functionality built into WP is not good, you really could only make a very basic site/blog with it.
So you still need to use 3rd party themes and plugins to get it anywhere close to what you get with elementor, divi and other page builders.
the only real difference here is that you are using plugins that extend the ones built into WP to add more functionality instead of using a page builder.
It's a bit less bloated as a result, since its less CSS and JS, but it really won't decrease the number of plugins you need much, as you will still need all the other plugins you need for the functionality and integrations they provide.
So you still end up with all the same issues that any plugin could break the site and requires constant updates, might have security issues etc.
Its probably less like that blocks plugins will have issues than elementor or divi though.
But you do also lose out on the full WYSIWYG editing though, as the FSE doesn;t give you this.

Blocksy and Kadence are good examples.