Why such a big difference in cost?

[PIngels]

A site traffic won't increase as a result of a new logo = fact

Facts are usually established through research. I suppose it also depends on how good your logo is ...

If the logo is highly visual and illustrative then it can persuade the reader to linger longer on the site but it won't influence conversions...not a jot.

Really? I always thought the longer visitors stay on your web page, the more interested they are in what you have to offer. The more interested they are the more likely they are to buy. That's the whole idea of creating sticky content.

 

[bdw]

You completely miss my point, it's undeniably close to Hotel Chocolat. Who are a huge brand in the chocolate world.

I've never heard of them either. :|

.

 

[bdw]

Really? I always thought the longer visitors stay on your web page, the more interested they are in what you have to offer.

I agree. I can think of no situation where a logo would entice people to stay on a a website other than to look at the logo. I don;'t want my clients looking at a logo. I want them to call me or complete an enquiry.

.

 

[s.marslight]

Its generally down to the level of service you're going to get, we always take into account the hours involved and break the project down into time and resource, its important to be specific so the customer knows what hes getting for his/her money rather than just coming up with an number loosely based on a brief. Even things like amendments after completion to spec need to be taken into account.

Prices can vary as there is usually a number of different solutions to a brief and some take longer and have different results. For instance using a template and changing it a little here and there shouldn't cost you as much as a custom design built from scratch.

 

[PabloDesign]

Hi I'm a freelance graphic designer and I work from home so my coast will be lower than a large design company that has lots of staff to pay as well as the rent on their offices etc - it doesn't mean that they'll do a better job than me as your job could be passed to a novice designer with little experience - so you don't always get what you pay for. My advice is to look at their portfolios and see if you like their previous work - if so contact them by phone or email and try and discuss your needs with them - sometimes it's about how you get on the designer and if they understand what your looking for in your project. Customer service and communication are also a big consideration - you want your designs doing when you need them and to be able to discuss any amends or the progress of your project. I wish you look choosing your designer. If you need any help please contact me.

Paul
Pablodesign
0116 267 2840

 

[hayfj]

whats the big difference in VALUE you will get?

Do you know what value you will get?

How can you calculate the VALUE you will get?

How can your suppliers demonstrate the EXTRA VALUE they offer?

when it comes to money....

in my book, there's 4 parts to the equation....

COST, VALUE, PRICE & PAYMENT

More importantly whats the OPPORTUNIY COST of penny pinching
and selecting the WRONG solution....

What adverse IMPACT could it have?

regards


Fraser

 

[S-Marketing]

whats the big difference in VALUE you will get?

Do you know what value you will get?

How can you calculate the VALUE you will get?

How can your suppliers demonstrate the EXTRA VALUE they offer?

when it comes to money....

in my book, there's 4 parts to the equation....

COST, VALUE, PRICE & PAYMENT

More importantly whats the OPPORTUNIY COST of penny pinching
and selecting the WRONG solution....

What adverse IMPACT could it have?

regards


Fraser

Fraser, have you been digging around in the loft and found your collection or really cheesy business management books from the 1980's? It's the only logical reason I can think of which would explain your posts on this forum.

 

[hayfj]

(blush)...

...stretchy, what are you like?



regards



Fraser
p.s. but all joking apart, many suppliers are poor at justifying the price and
far too often the buyer simply doesnt appreciate the value they are receiving sometimes and far too often settle for the lower cost/price without considering other key elements and what it could "cost" them in long run

 

[iArtist]

Facts are usually established through research. I suppose it also depends on how good your logo is ...

.

Searchengines can't tell whether a logo is nice or not and thus send more traffic to a site with a nicer logo

Logos have no influence on how searchengines operate thus they do not, in any way shape or form increase traffic to a website = FACT.

As for logos helping people stay longer on a page...can't say I've ever been influenced by one...and I have never seen any research to suggest logos increase conversions...and I've looked. Unless you can come up with some research confirming logos improve conversions there's no reason to believe or suspect they do given that logically there is no reason why they would.

 

[bdw]

Did he/she mention search engines?

.

 

[s.marslight]

Logos have no influence on how searchengines operate thus they do not, in any way shape or form increase traffic to a website = FACT.

That's not to say a poorly designed logo doesn't put someone off staying on a page. It certainly puts me off, I hold aesthetics in very high regard, but then again I am a designer!

 

[PIngels]

Searchengines can't tell whether a logo is nice or not and thus send more traffic to a site with a nicer logo

Logos have no influence on how searchengines operate thus they do not, in any way shape or form increase traffic to a website = FACT.

Oh dear, this is getting a bit silly, is it not? Who said anything about search engines? You need to look at this from a wider perspective.

If a company's logo has no influence on their bottom line why spend money on a logo at all? Why don't we all just write our company names in Helvetica or Times Roman?

A logo, together with all the other brand elements, conveys a certain message and it is this message that influences conversion rates. The logo plays its role.

As for logos helping people stay longer on a page...can't say I've ever been influenced by one...and I have never seen any research to suggest logos increase conversions...and I've looked. Unless you can come up with some research confirming logos improve conversions there's no reason to believe or suspect they do given that logically there is no reason why they would.

There are a LOT of things that are completely outside our awareness that influences our decision making so it is understandable that you can't say you've ever been influenced by a logo to stay on a site longer. That does not mean the influence is not there.

The F-Shaped pattern for reading web content, Google's Golden Triangle, the effect of partial content above the fold on encouraging users to explore the content below the fold, the effective use of colour, use of negative space in web design, etc, etc are all example of influences that we are not directly aware of.

A data example on these influences are from Jared Spool, who wrote about a case on how removing a button and adding a clear error message to avoid user errors in a checkout process increased revenue by $300 million in just a year

Another well known case study is of how revising their error page so that it contained useful help text improved completed checkouts by 0.5% per month.

The above two examples are inside the interactive decision making pipeline so they are different from the visual influences but I mention them to illustrate the point of how much we are influences by things we are not directly aware of.

The logo, layout, design elements, colour, ect. all falls into the category of the overall impression created by the site. They create things like a sense of trust, positiveness, stability, desire, approachability, etc. and these all influence how long we stay on the site and how likely we are to convert from a visitor to a customer.

That, at least, is why I design logos.

 

[bdw]

There are a LOT of things that are completely outside our awareness that influences our decision ...

It's called subliminal

 

[iArtist]

Oh dear, this is getting a bit silly, is it not? Who said anything about search engines?

You made the claim that logos increase conversions

I said logos don't increase traffic (so how do they increase conversions) and you made some odd comment that didn't quite make sense regarding facts...seemingly arguing that actually logos can increase traffic. I am thus pointing out in a 'clear as mud' manner it is not physically possible.

Re logos increasing conversions, show me the proof.

It'd have to be a pretty dominating logo to have any impact whatsoever.

Then you ask if this is the case why do people have logos....

Answer: Nothing at all related to traffic increase or conversions that's for sure.

It's about creating a recogniseable and communicative brand image that looks just as good in black and white as it does colour (re faxes and photocopies) and just as good tiny as it does large (re business cards).

I see a LOT of logos that are completly unuseable re the media mentioned above, showing the designer knows diddly squat about how the image actually needs to translate across all media not just looking good at the top of a website.

I often advise my clients that the illustrations they request for logos won't work shrunk down as the detail will be impossible to make out and so on and they then decide if they want two versions or a much simplified version of the one they had in mind.

Logos that only look good on a website aren't very useful.

 

[S-Marketing]

Oh dear, this is getting a bit silly, is it not? Who said anything about search engines? You need to look at this from a wider perspective.

If a company's logo has no influence on their bottom line why spend money on a logo at all? Why don't we all just write our company names in Helvetica or Times Roman?

A logo, together with all the other brand elements, conveys a certain message and it is this message that influences conversion rates. The logo plays its role.



There are a LOT of things that are completely outside our awareness that influences our decision making so it is understandable that you can't say you've ever been influenced by a logo to stay on a site longer. That does not mean the influence is not there.

The F-Shaped pattern for reading web content, Google's Golden Triangle, the effect of partial content above the fold on encouraging users to explore the content below the fold, the effective use of colour, use of negative space in web design, etc, etc are all example of influences that we are not directly aware of.

A data example on these influences are from Jared Spool, who wrote about a case on how removing a button and adding a clear error message to avoid user errors in a checkout process increased revenue by $300 million in just a year

Another well known case study is of how revising their error page so that it contained useful help text improved completed checkouts by 0.5% per month.

The above two examples are inside the interactive decision making pipeline so they are different from the visual influences but I mention them to illustrate the point of how much we are influences by things we are not directly aware of.

The logo, layout, design elements, colour, ect. all falls into the category of the overall impression created by the site. They create things like a sense of trust, positiveness, stability, desire, approachability, etc. and these all influence how long we stay on the site and how likely we are to convert from a visitor to a customer.

That, at least, is why I design logos.

Excellent post.

To understand this argument it is best to look at each side as an extreme.

The best example of this isn't to try to measure the success of great logos, but to understand the effect of a terrible one. If your average consumer was browsing on-line for a particular product and found him/herself on a site with an absolutely awful logo (we are talking really bad, not just from a designers point of view, but just horrible to look at) whether they realise it or not this is going to have SOME impact on how long they stay on the site, and also the likelihood of conversion.

In marketing we refer to such things as physical evidence. Anything your business does or has on their site has SOME impact on how people perceive it, and it is this perception that they sometimes unconsciously use to make their buying decision. Many more subtle trust indicators work in exactly the same way.

These things have a greater significance on-line as although you can be buying a product, you are often essentially making a 'non tangible' decision, as the product is not physically there in front of you when you decide.

Web purchases are also seen by certain groups as more risky than shop purchases, so any indication of professionalism or trustworthiness, no matter how small, is a good idea IMHO.

 

[bdw]

The best example of this isn't to try to measure the success of great logos, but to understand the effect of a terrible one.

This is very true. Logo design. like web design is something that many people think they can do for themselves. I have created websites for people who insist that I use DIY logos that are totally unsuitable. The problem is that they don't see it and it's not good for business to tell clients they have no design ability whatsoever.

.

 

[bdw]

I said logos don't increase traffic (so how do they increase conversions) and you made some odd comment that didn't quite make sense regarding facts...seemingly arguing that actually logos can increase traffic. I am thus pointing out in a 'clear as mud' manner it is not physically possible.

Logos have no influence on how searchengines operate thus they do not, in any way shape or form increase traffic to a website = FACT.

Leah you seem to be missing something here. I saw no reference to search engines or logos increasing traffic. Did I miss something? :|:|:|

.

 

[S-Marketing]

With all other things being equal, a well thought out logo could increase traffic to a site. It is a mistake to see web traffic as only generated by the search engines.

If I were a new member on here looking for a logo designer and came across 2, with all other things being equal, I would probably look at the site of the one with a better logo.

Again, my point about extremes is valid here. Lets assume one designer had an amazing logo, and the other was awful.

 

[KreativeJuice]

With all other things being equal, a well thought out logo could increase traffic to a site. It is a mistake to see web traffic as only generated by the search engines.

If I were a new member on here looking for a logo designer and came across 2, with all other things being equal, I would probably look at the site of the one with a better logo.

Again, my point about extremes is valid here. Lets assume one designer had an amazing logo, and the other was awful.

Loving this thread.

 

[S-Marketing]

Loving this thread.

You demonstrate my point perfectly. Who in their right mind is going to consider visiting the site of a designer who uses 'lime green?' in their own logo.

 

[iArtist]

With all other things being equal, a well thought out logo could increase traffic to a site. It is a mistake to see web traffic as only generated by the search engines.

If I were a new member on here looking for a logo designer and came across 2, with all other things being equal, I would probably look at the site of the one with a better logo.

Again, my point about extremes is valid here. Lets assume one designer had an amazing logo, and the other was awful.

You won't even SEE the site with the better logo if the searchengine hasn't pulled the site up for you or someone else referred you to the site and that's the POINT I was making.

Looking at logos on other sites isn't what we're talking about. Or rather 'AVATARS' which again are a different thing altogether and serve an entirely different purpose. My avatar isn't my logo.

 

[iArtist]

Leah you seem to be missing something here. I saw no reference to search engines or logos increasing traffic. Did I miss something? :|:|:|

Posts 27 and 28

re claim that a logo increased conversions

I first pointed out no traffic increase possible due to introduction of new logo and then...blah blah etc. etc.

Let the debate commence...fascinating

 

[KreativeJuice]

You demonstrate my point perfectly. Who in their right mind is going to consider visiting the site of a designer who uses 'lime green?' in their own logo.

The clients that have taste and therefore the ones we want.

 

[S-Marketing]

You won't even SEE the site with the better logo if the searchengine hasn't pulled the site up for you or someone else referred you to the site and that's the POINT I was making.

Looking at logos on other sites isn't what we're talking about. Or rather 'AVATARS' which again are a different thing altogether and serve an entirely different purpose. My avatar isn't my logo.

My points were based on very basic theory to demonstrate a point, which I think most members understand.

The difference between an avatar and a logo is not relevant, we are talking about basic theory, not specifics. To suggest the only way it is possible to see a site is via a search engine or recommendation is also incorrect.

 

[S-Marketing]

The clients that have taste and therefore the ones we want.

Touché, someone is on the ball today.

Just looked at your site. Nice work (shame about the colour)

 

[KreativeJuice]

Touché, someone is on the ball today.

Just looked at your site. Nice work (shame about the colour)

Thanks, although I know I will struggle to convince you but strangely enough there have been a number of "followers" that have "pinched" our colour palette lately.....flattery at its best I feel.

 

[S-Marketing]

Thanks, although I know I will struggle to convince you but strangely enough there have been a number of "followers" that have "pinched" our colour palette lately.....flattery at its best I feel.

You could write what I know about colour selection for sites and design on a post-it. I'm more than happy to take your word for it.

 

[KreativeJuice]

You could write what I know about colour selection for sites and design on a post-it. I'm more than happy to take your word for it.

Good - another added to the enlightened - seems to be a never ending mission though.

 

[thebiznizdotcom]

I think there are some very good and varied replies on here but the best advice I could give is look at the work they've previously done and contact their past customers. That way you'll definitely get the right idea of cost vs service.
If they can't give you any contacts that should be the first sign to worry.
Graham

 

[KRange]

dominidigital.co.uk are good with quotes, might be useful for you

 

[PabloDesign]

I think that this discussion has gone way off track - very funny though to see different people react to the posts - everyone has their opinion for sure!

 

[Tin]

I've removed several posts from the end of this thread.
Please refrain from making personal comments against other members.

As always attack the argument and not the person.

Ray

 

[hayfj]

...if I appear to have gone off topic slightly re Value, Price, Cost & payment etc...

...hopefully I can explain my earlier response a bit better here...

...My point is some designers can put in a phenomenal amount of
work behind the scenes and do a lot of thinking in terms of logo, design, brand values, quality, perception, theme, even tagline etc and how it all fits together as one integrated corporate, uniform design....Many will even think about a "branding book" and all the different corporate elements - fonts, colours, sizes, images etc...

...unfortunately, many customers just want a "logo" and often don't appreciate the huge creative effort, thinking and consideration behind the scenes that designers do when visualising and creating on behalf of clients.

Some customers often assume they're just getting a template logo and its being tweaked for them. They often assume the cost is minimal and thus what they pay for should be reflected in that.

Ohhh me - there's a whole lot more goes on behind the scenes.

The important point to make is the "logo" and "concept" is the IP of the designer, and quite often there can be a "release fee" or a licence fee involved...(as they are the design copyrwrite owner)

...But many professional providers INCLUDE this in the PRICE, and also go a long way to help their clients by splitting the fee/payment. Yet many customers dont appreciate this.

So there are a number of things to consider, and not just Price alone.

I've probaby made a hash of this explanation too, but hopefully a better one than earlier and some additional points to consider or appreciate when dealing with adesigner..

Ill shutup now

 

[PIngels]

The best example of this isn't to try to measure the success of great logos, but to understand the effect of a terrible one.

Totally agree with you, Stretchy.

The problem is that they don't see it and it's not good for business to tell clients they have no design ability whatsoever.

There are many ways to tell a client they have no design sense. I have no problem explaining to a prospective client why they have a terrible logo or avatar, the damage it's causing their business and why they should get it re-designed. A few examples for comparison often does the trick. The extremes are and easier sell. Even with no design sense a client can often recognize the difference between a logo with horrible typography, garish colours, cheap Photoshop effects, amateurish execution and (if they have an avatar) a character with no personality or the wrong message, when you put the alternative next to it.

 

[the Chocolate]

Who ever did the logo may want to not try ripping off Hotel Chocolat in future.......

Meeeeow! Poor form,actually I like how Dunhill is written, hence 'the' in the Chocolate is written, as for Chocolate i like the font i have chosen, is that a crime?
Also can I point out that we are in no shape or form like Hotel Chocolate, they are for the masses where our clientele are looking for "the worlds most luxurious chocolate experience" that's why they come to us.

 

[Baz Watkins]

A logo is a signifier and a shortform descriptor for your brand. Spend £100 on a logo and you get a font with a stock graphic, you don't get a brand.

Logo and brand design = budget + desired result + imagination + understanding + brand awareness + target audience marketing + time to design + costs of trade + cost of education + skill set + wage.

Cost: My local uni paid £25,000 to a brand consultancy, and went through numerous meetings and revisions... taking months for final delivery. They got a transferable brand that tapped into their core and delivered their desired message to prospects.

Web design = same as above with a few subtle changes...

Web design options:

Buy a website package, you save money, but your website is built to the designers spec and not yours - see my signature for an example. The designer prebuilds then resells to get his money back.

Buy a website, and the designer listens to you, and builds what you want, but you pay for the research, development, design, copywriting, on site and off site SEO, marketing and management.

The first will cost anything from £100 to £1,000, it all depends on the designer.

The second incures time, and time costs, so expect the price to start at £1,000 and go on, after all the NHS Choices website cost £23 million.

In the end you buy cheap or buy properly.

 

[odgate]

Hi,I Think you can choose the quotes that suitable for you,it's just like buying a product,there is good and bad,so the price is different,the website is just as the same way.

 

[j600com]

I need a Website and Logo designing so I've been sourcing quotes via Free Index etc..
I dont know if I'm missing something here but I cant understand is why there's such a big difference in cost ???

I've had Quotes to build my Website ranging between £1,500 to £10,000.

I've also had Quotes for my for my logo £40 - £1,000

I know some will be better than others and they're prices maybe a little higher but why such a difference?

Websites are like cars, it's like asking why would a Bentley cost more than a Kia or a Daewoo.

The mistake most people make when shopping around for a web company is not comparing like with like. Price usually varies due to location (e.g often Indian developers are cheaper to hire than UK ones), quality, support, expertise, stability and more often than not time. Many companies have a similar day rate, so often you are buying time. If you can get a companies day rate off them you can often then see how much time they will spend on the build. The less time spent, typically the poorer the quality.

Make sure you see examples of their work (and are impressed by them), speak to their customers, find out how long they've been trading and how many support staff they have, of need be credit check them (web companies go POP all the time! Often leaving clients without a site/needing to start again).

In summary, do your homework! If the price is vastly different then the chances are you aren't comparing the same solution.

 

[lifesciencedynamics]

It all depends upon skill, experience professional design. One more thing prices also depend on number of pages you want to create for your website. I would not suggest you to work with a very low price company they will not give your website a professional look. A good website is very necessary to get business from it. You can try binarysemantics for your web design.

 

[j600com]

One more thing prices also depend on number of pages you want to create for your website.

Avoid (like the plague) anyone who charges an eCommerce site by the number of pages.

Nowadays (even on many non transactional sites) pages are usually created dynamically within the admin of the cms. So a website would take no longer to build if it had 1 product or 1000 as you would/should have the ability to add products/pages yourself within the admin.