Who makes the final decision? (Renting space from Council for mobile catering)

[Pizzaiolo]

Hi everyone.

There's a spot in my town centre that i'd like to enquire about renting from the local council to have a mobile catering unit on it.

As far as I can see, there would be no problem with me renting this space (eg. there would be no issue of me blocking pathways for pedestrians etc). Is there any 'criteria' that they look for when renting space out?

Who makes the final decision?, is it actually the local council, or is there another organisation higher up that makes the decisions?

And finally, if anyone has any advice on how to persuade them, that would be great. I am prepared to offer them a good percentage of my gross turnover (which i'm predicting to be about £200k p/a). Should I think about upping the percentage before I apprach them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[arcon5]

I doubt they'll offer the land based on a % off your turnover.

More like a yearly figure + business rates with what I imagine to be a 1 qtr rent upfront and 1 qtr rent deposit.

Also £200k for a burger van, town center or not sounds optimistic. I'd guess your typical van would aim for a ton per day. Maybe a ton 50

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Assuming you are in the UK - IIRC you will require a Food Handling certificate,observe hygiene regulations have insurance
Have a look at the search function oon this site,type in Mobile catering lots of threads there.
There is also a wee bit here
http://www.streetfood.org.uk/questions-answered.html

 

[ethical PR]

Why not give your local council a call and they will tell what their process/ criteria is. Blocking the highway or not will only be one of a number of considerations.

Councils make the final decision unless it's on someone else's land.

As others have pointed they will charge whatever the going rate not work on commission

 

[Pizzaiolo]

I doubt they'll offer the land based on a % off your turnover.

More like a yearly figure + business rates with what I imagine to be a 1 qtr rent upfront and 1 qtr rent deposit.

Also £200k for a burger van, town center or not sounds optimistic. I'd guess your typical van would aim for a ton per day. Maybe a ton 50

Hi arcon5.

Yes, the yearly figure+business rates sounds like a possibility. Although would they still charge me rates even though I wouldn't be renting a premises?

I recently had a meeting with a guy that deals with renting sites at the local train station, he said they'd charge a set amount p/a, plus a percentage of my turnover, that's why I assumed the council may be the same. It's not a burger van, it's a completely different concept.

Cheers.

 

[Pizzaiolo]

Assuming you are in the UK - IIRC you will require a Food Handling certificate,observe hygiene regulations have insurance
Have a look at the search function oon this site,type in Mobile catering lots of threads there.
There is also a wee bit here

Thanks for your reply, vvaannmmaann.

I'm aware of regs, h+s, insurance etc. My background is in catering so all of that is taken care of.

Have had a good look around the streetfood website, some good info there. I'll check out the search function, cheers. (Had to take the URL out of your reply to quote it as i'm not allowed to post links yet)

 

[Pizzaiolo]

Why not give your local council a call and they will tell what their process/ criteria is. Blocking the highway or not will only be one of a number of considerations.

Councils make the final decision unless it's on someone else's land.

As others have pointed they will charge whatever the going rate not work on commission

Hi Ethical PR.

Yes, i'll try giving them a call, but i'm sure they'll just tell me outright that there are no pitches available and that there's a 3+ year waiting list (this is what they told me about 5 years ago when I enquired, but I didn't go ahead with the idea)

With regards to the pitch I have in mind, I can see no reason whatsoever why they couldn't rent it to me. As the council is very 'green' orientated i'm even looking at generators that run on bio-fuel to power the unit as i'm hoping that may have some swing with them.

Do you know if they have to give me a reason if they refuse me the pitch?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[arcon5]

I'm pretty sure its not the norm to pay a percentage of turnover to a LL. Never ever come across this arrangement before.
Anybody looking for this kind of arrangement better well have some prime spots and low base rates available. And of course a cap.

Unlike private landlords from stories I've heard the council don't seem to operate like private landlords and don't take the view that some rent is better than none - can also be very inflexible in terms of rent free periods, type of lease etc... To the point they have no problem leaving a unit empty for long periods/

 

[Pizzaiolo]

I'm pretty sure its not the norm to pay a percentage of turnover to a LL. Never ever come across this arrangement before.
Anybody looking for this kind of arrangement better well have some prime spots and low base rates available. And of course a cap.

Unlike private landlords from stories I've heard the council don't seem to operate like private landlords and don't take the view that some rent is better than none - can also be very inflexible in terms of rent free periods, type of lease etc... To the point they have no problem leaving a unit empty for long periods/

Hi Arcon5.

Well i'm not sure if that kind of arrangement is the norm, but that was the proposal that the guy representing the train operator (who run the station) offered. The train station in question was definitely a prime spot - nearly 18,000 passengers moving through it daily (6.3m p/a). No cap was mentioned though.

Yes, I understand what you say about councils not being like private landlords, which is what i'm worried about.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[10032012]

Hi everyone.

There's a spot in my town centre that i'd like to enquire about renting from the local council to have a mobile catering unit on it.

As far as I can see, there would be no problem with me renting this space (eg. there would be no issue of me blocking pathways for pedestrians etc). Is there any 'criteria' that they look for when renting space out?

Who makes the final decision?, is it actually the local council, or is there another organisation higher up that makes the decisions?

And finally, if anyone has any advice on how to persuade them, that would be great. I am prepared to offer them a good percentage of my gross turnover (which i'm predicting to be about £200k p/a). Should I think about upping the percentage before I apprach them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

My understanding is, unless its a building or standalone land (i.e. a field) owned by the council, you would just need a street trading licence. You wouldn't rent the land just pay for the right to a specific spot.

This said these can be very expensive... when I looked a year back, it was generally more expensive to get this licence than it is to rent a small shop somewhere. Most councils will allow you to pay in instalments but it wont be a profit/turnover share... traders would just decide to trade more seasonal resulting in less revenue for the council. I think the street trading licence is basically rent + premium + rates rolled into one.

 

[MBE1]

Most councils allocated sites for such units, your problem lies IF your proposed site is either not one approved, or does not fit into their vision/plan for the town. I've known councils refuse such requests, but approve them elsewhere, simply because they do not like the idea of "bringing" the look down of the area.

If the site has to be approved whilst not impossible to achieve, councils tend to work at a very slow rate overall, loads of different factions each fighting for their own interests, not necessarily what is good or best for the actual town they represent.

The hardest hurdle to overcome if you have a problem with an established trader who might be, shall we say, looking after certain councillors over and above their salary.

 

[Pizzaiolo]

My understanding is, unless its a building or standalone land (i.e. a field) owned by the council, you would just need a street trading licence. You wouldn't rent the land just pay for the right to a specific spot.

This said these can be very expensive... when I looked a year back, it was generally more expensive to get this licence than it is to rent a small shop somewhere. Most councils will allow you to pay in instalments but it wont be a profit/turnover share... traders would just decide to trade more seasonal resulting in less revenue for the council. I think the street trading licence is basically rent + premium + rates rolled into one.

Thanks for your reply, 10032012.

Yes, i've looked into the street trading license, and that's not a problem. The problem i'm having is according to my local councils website, there is an enormous waiting list to secure a pitch to be able to trade from, at least 2 years. So even if I had a street traders license, that wouldn't guarantee me a place to trade from.

 

[Pizzaiolo]

Most councils allocated sites for such units, your problem lies IF your proposed site is either not one approved, or does not fit into their vision/plan for the town. I've known councils refuse such requests, but approve them elsewhere, simply because they do not like the idea of "bringing" the look down of the area.

If the site has to be approved whilst not impossible to achieve, councils tend to work at a very slow rate overall, loads of different factions each fighting for their own interests, not necessarily what is good or best for the actual town they represent.

The hardest hurdle to overcome if you have a problem with an established trader who might be, shall we say, looking after certain councillors over and above their salary.

Hi MBE1.

I completely agree with what you say about the unit having to fit into the plan/vision that the council have for the town, this is something i'm working on and I believe it can fit in. As I mentioned before in the thread, the council are very 'green' orientated, so i'm looking into making the unit as 'green' as possible. The town is quite 'trendy', which is the kind of vision I had for the unit even before I started thinking about approaching the council to see if I could rent space from them.
I've still yet to approach some private land owners because I think the unit would do best at this particular spot I have in mind (owned by the council).

Yes, i'm aware that they do move very slow. It's very frustrating.

There aren't any other mobile catering units in the town that are on spots owned by the council. There's a couple of fruit and veg stalls, and a guy that sells small electrical things, pocket radios, batteries and the like. I'm sure that kind of thing does go on up and down the country, but I hope it doesn't get in the way of what i'm trying to do.

Thanks for replying.