When does constructive criticism cross the line?

[Chris Martin]

As i'm sure you'll agree, we are all bias towards our products as we have spent time, money and effort on them. I think thats healthy as you should believe 100% in your product, other wise it's never going to sell.

Constructive criticism is healthy and good as far as i'm concerned as this helps to draw attention to factors that you may not have seen and is there for other to help you progress your product further - thats why you guys on this forum are so good to know!

But when do you think it goes too far? i have had some really nagative and in some case rude feedback in the past over some of the ideas that we have had by people that sometimes have no idea of the market you promote to, or the technical workings of the product. And i just wondered how that can be helpful to anyone??

My friends here at UKBF are some of the most helpful and polite people i have met, but some other forums and users, can be out of order.

I wondered how you guys have had similar experiences, how you dealt with it and most importantly why do some people get a buzz putting down other peoples ideas? It would be funny share some of your stories

Merry Crimbo to you all by the way

 

[lgylsen]

I'm in total agreement Chris

The reason why it has taken me so many months to start posting is because in the past other forums have been rude and negative, and you really had to watch every word that you posted.

Merry Xmas

 

[Coding Monkey]

My dad is the most critical of everything I do, and never tries to step-toe around the subject. Always very helpful.

I've only ever had 1 person being very, very critical of what I said by basically telling me I was wrong when I was giving them free advice after they called me. It was done in such a way that I never responded and simply realised the person was a complete idiot. Not for disagreeing with me, but for what exactly he said.

But, I don't really "present" the company. Sure, I'm who you'll speak to etc, but the presentation is done by others and therefore I can't take the criticism personal.

 

[jklondon]

Agreed.. I actually prefer a more guided approach to getting feedback - for example I have a new site in a public beta stage and wanted feedback - I basically invited people to review the site and in return I offered to pay them £10.

To make this worth my while I ensured I picked people who I thought would provide a good review (based on limited background info) and I gave them a detailed Evaluation Sheet outlining what I wanted from them..

JK

 

[sparklyscotty]

For me, crossing the line is when someone makes a comment that insults me, my talent, or my work and isn't just an expression of their own opinion.
It is absolutely ok for someone to not like my jewellery, and tell me so; it is not ok for them to make snide comments about my colour combinations, or choice of materials.
-Angel-

 

[billhilton]

Seems to me that a regular problem is that in writing people come across as more evil than they actually are.

Think of it like this. When you're driving you feel safer giving people 'helpful' hand gestures because you're in a big metal box travelling at speed. You're insulated from them. It's the same with online criticism - I'm physically insulated from you; to me, you're just words on a screen. I don't pick up all the signs that you're upset, and I know you can't punch me (at least not right away) so I feel freer to say what I like. I'm not necessarily saying it's a conscious process.

Take comfort from the fact these people would probably be mortified if they thought they'd caused you serious hurt. But also take advantage of the fact that their defences are down and they're showing their true colours - the things they'd mask from you in face-to-face conversation, or even on the phone. If they're being rude, maybe you website or product has made them angry. You need to ask yourself why. In this sense, criticism that goes over the line is more useful than criticism that stays on the polite side of it, because all things being equal it's more likely to be true and accurate.

True, the critic might be a nutter or a 'troll', so it's best not to draw too many conclusions from a single harsh criticism. But if lots of people are being nasty about your stuff it means something needs to change. It might just be something small, like making them fill in their contact details before they get at the main content of their site. I had that experience with an estate agent the other night. Before I could download the PDFs of his properties, I had to give him my email address. It was obvious I was going to get spammed, so I sent him an email which in retrospect was probably a bit snotty. But it was a trivial thing that had really annoyed me.

 

You would'nt be talking about Ecadmey members woud you?

 

[Chris Martin]

You would'nt be talking about Ecadmey members woud you?

To be honest, it's more than one. And i agree totally with Bill regarding that fact that multiple criticism means there is a serious problem with your product but i still don't understand why some people tend to rip things to bits when they don't understand them.

For example i was arguing with someone over OFCOM & ICSTIS legislation, as i have worked in telecoms since i was a teen i know my stuff. Turns out the chap i was arguing with was a plumber that had read an article in a paper and thought i knew the lot. As far as i'm concerned i would never tell him how to plumb a loo so i wouldn't expect to be told that i know nothing about the business i've been in since i was 19!!

 

[confused]

I wouldnt be concerned with people being rude on forums, the comparison made to being inside a car is a good one. Personally I take forum users replies, and from the replies, make an educated judgment as to what to believe, I frequent several technical forums, and some of the advice given there is totally incorrect - not necessarily on purpose, but quite possibly due to lack of knowledge, as the old saying goes "a little knowledge is dangerous" - or it can be.
Then there are the "flamers" who deliberatly put down peoples suggestions/comments/advice etc for their own amusement, , thankfully this one doesnt seem to be frequented by such people. Some boards are heavily moderated and posts edited or deleted very often, others arn'r. At the end of the day, its up to you what advice/comments/opinions you take seriously, and ones you dont, if someone is out to "have a go" I usually ignore them rather than "fighting evil with evil"

 

[mumper]

and most importantly why do some people get a buzz putting down other peoples ideas?

Because they are suffering from a severe lack of talent and a personality. They don't know what they're talking about but they have to talk - it helps them with their inferiority complexes.

They don't like to see competition, innovation or anyone who appears to have a brain. They like to be negative and rude because they think it makes them look knowledgeable.

These peoples' opinions count for absolutely nothing. Don't take their comments to heart - they've probably got nothing better to do except haunt business forums - it's sad really.

 

[Jayne]

It's much nicer to be kind and helpful, than a grumpy old bugger who pulls everything to pieces. I try to point out good things and keep any not so good things to myself. I know many will have a go over this, saying it's not honest etc. But I just hate to make people feel bad.

If I do have anything bad to comment (but nicely though), I'd PM the person, so not to embarrass them

There's no need to hurt someones feelings, just to feed your own ego.

Jayne

 

[ink4-u]

i think 100% it depends on who you are talking to and what mood they are in. i do try to say no hard feelings, because when you are reading from a screen it is very easy to interpreted what is written in the wrong way, you dont have the body language or voice tone to help you, sometimes i can write something and have a blow out with someone because they take what i have written in the way it wasn't intended. we all just have to watch and you never know till the person bits the dust!

 

[JustOneUK]

True, the critic might be a nutter or a 'troll'.

can someone clarify 'troll', i have seen it and heard a few definitions, is it someone looking for an argument?

I only argue with people who say cretinous things like "it's because i am a woman" or they can't even read the facts or tell the truth.

(and in case they read this) Yes that means YOU !!!

 

[Jayne]

True, the critic might be a nutter or a 'troll'.

can someone clarify 'troll', i have seen it and heard a few definitions, is it someone looking for an argument?

I only argue with people who say cretinous things like "it's because i am a woman" or they can't even read the facts or tell the truth.

(and in case they read this) Yes that means YOU !!!

Think he means, twisted, ugly fat bloater, not a nice person

Jayne (That's what I mean when I say it :lol: )

 

[SillyJokes]

I beleive a troll is someone who deliberately posts in order to wind the forum or a member of the forum up and keeps on doing it.

 

[DarrenC]

It crosses the line when the individual is providing criticism based on jealously, or has a rather large ego - all forums have members who act in this way.

I don't mind anyone criticising my work, but when someone gives you criticism when it's not requested then this gets my back up.

 

[bci]

If a post is asking for your opinion on his/her website or products - you're not helping by being all "nice" and vague. That's the kind of comments one would expect from the girlfriend's girlie coffee mornings - not that I've ever attended one!

As with some of the replies at ....
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7603

David

 

[Asteeleleith]

i think in all honestly, if you are asking for someone opinion, you must therefore be prepare for the answer. it may be an answer you might ot like. If it is good and friendly, it might come from a party that does not know any better. Or vicer versa.
someone else might be more understanding of the field, and pull it to pieces.
now here comes the problem, it is incrediably hard in here to express ones emotions properly. The smileys on the left help a little.
However there are some with limited understanding of that either. Therefore it is very easy to cause or take offense. I have seen it happen so often in here

There is a fine line between being critical constructivly and dam right personal. i think pointing out the GOOD as well as the BAD is most important. After all, and yes i have had it happen to me. you spend hours building something and perfecting it. Then some sod comes and smashes it.
The worst offender for this is no one off this forum, its my dear mother.
It is a pain as many of the things i am so proud of, like the product, my website, the new business cards that have just been printd for me i cannot show her. she will not understand.
All i get is, Made any money?
Why not?

So in the end it is best as a company director i think to let only a select few ppl in. This is ot only important to protect your product and ideas, but if the product is to be demolished let it be by someone you know and respect.
It is true this makes it lonely, noone to talk to on it. And i have had many sleepless nights milling over things. i don;t mind its whats made my company what it is today, and its the choice i decided to make.
I have not made any real money yet, but i can also understand why.

i will say one thing though, through this forum i have met many people, and chat to many of them now, using email and msn. Even the telephone.
I think being a member of the UKBF should be part of every company directors business plan.

Merry Christmas to all of you

Al