What to do with my business?

[cica]

Hi all,

Advice very much appreciated but bear in mind I can't go into details here because I've already had a strike for that. Apologies mods, genuine misunderstanding.

I worked for a small e-commerce company for 18 months and rescued them giving them record sales. There was a lot more to do to grow the business but the business was very backwarded so I decided to go alone and try everything I wanted to do myself.

It took me 3 months and I eventually got there. Professional website, stock, supplier relationships, courier contracts (best in the business, next day + 1 hour delivery window txt), payment processing...the lot. I even made a few sales and got some great feedback but I got a job offer I couldn't refuse. Good money and walking distance from my home.

I've dabbled with getting family to run it but it would be in a compromised state and the whole point of my business was to be vastly superior to my competition.

My plan is to offer free shares in the company to an existing similar company (there are a lot of small e-commerce companies out there) for running it for me. They get to grow their business and I get to grow mine.

Is this realistic? What's the best way to seek people? It seems I can't on here. Please don't ask details because then I'll just get banned but I'm sure it's fine to ask for advice and where to go.

Should I post an ad on a businesses for sale site but the price at zero for the right person?

:| Thanks!

 

[sysops]

Here's how I read this post:

I worked for a small e-commerce company for 18 months and rescued them giving them record sales. There was a lot more to do to grow the business but the business was very backwarded so I decided to go alone and try everything I wanted to do myself.

I worked for a small e-commerce company for 18 months and during that time I learnt everything I could to learn about their business model and processes. I may have contributed to the company during that period, in between making notes.

It took me 3 months and I eventually got there. Professional website, stock, supplier relationships, courier contracts (best in the business, next day + 1 hour delivery window txt), payment processing...the lot. I even made a few sales and got some great feedback but I got a job offer I couldn't refuse. Good money and walking distance from my home.

Using the information I learnt during my 18 months, I was able to set up a replica operation in a record 3 months. I got accounts with the same suppliers, and even the same courier (DPD or GeoPost going by the description).

I've dabbled with getting family to run it but it would be in a compromised state and the whole point of my business was to be vastly superior to my competition.

I am now bricking myself, because I know I stole the company's IP and violated my employment contract.

My plan is to offer free shares in the company to an existing similar company (there are a lot of small e-commerce companies out there) for running it for me. They get to grow their business and I get to grow mine.

Is this realistic? What's the best way to seek people? It seems I can't on here. Please don't ask details because then I'll just get banned but I'm sure it's fine to ask for advice and where to go.

Should I post an ad on a businesses for sale site but the price at zero for the right person?

How do I get myself out of this and avoid having my ass sued by my former employer?

 

[cica]

Ok, that didn't go down too well, did it?

Yes, DPD. That isn't a trade secret of mine.

In fact my suppliers are not the same. They wouldn't supply someone like me. In fact that's one of the reasons I wanted to go into this sector - it's so locked down by suppliers the existing retailers are stuck in the dark ages.

Also, I had no employment contract. Like I said, this employer was not great. I don't think you can sue for breach of contract when there isn't one. Can you sysops? I assume you think I am lying when I said I had a full time job offer I couldn't refuse.

Should I give up now or will everyone be hostile?

 

[saxondale]

Should I give up now .....

probably..

 

[cica]

probably..

What's the problem? That all of your are employers and don't like the idea of giving advice to someone looking to compete with a former employer?

 

[sysops]

Also, I had no employment contract. Like I said, this employer was not great. I don't think you can sue for breach of contract when there isn't one. Can you sysops?

That was very remiss of them not to provide a contract with a strong no-compete clause.

However, even with no contract, if they can prove IP theft, then of course they could sue.

Should I give up now or will everyone be hostile?

I wasn't being hostile, you would know if I was.

If you aren't worried about the consequences, then why don't you want to run this business yourself? You clearly think it's a viable proposition that could do well.

 

[saxondale]

What's the problem? ?

nothing, just trying to save you from yourself.

 

[cica]

That was very remiss of them not to provide a contract with a strong no-compete clause.

However, even with no contract, if they can prove IP theft, then of course they could sue.



I wasn't being hostile, you would know if I was.

If you aren't worried about the consequences, then why don't you want to run this business yourself? You clearly think it's a viable proposition that could do well.

Thanks for the reply. I stole no IP. I did know what their business was (I worked there). I did use Google.

The reason they didn't give me any contract let alone one with a no-compete clause was because they cut corners on everything. They originally acquired me through a recruitment agency and simply told the agency that I wasn't good enough but offered me the job directly avoiding the finder's fee. They also only use pirate software and steal from their suppliers. They do all this to remain competitive without doing any real good business. I don't feel bad and neither should any legit business out there.

I don't want to it myself because this job I have now is bigger than it for now. I see no reason why I couldn't get someone to run it for me while I work for another company (this one gave me a contract on the first day). I get fed up with bad employers so decide to go alone and then I actually get a respectable employer offering me a great salary only a walking distance away. I'd be a fool not to. I don't think I have to choose between the two. I can give someone my company to run.

 

[saxondale]

Thanks for the reply. I stole no IP. I did know what their business was (I worked there). I did use Google.

The reason they didn't give me any contract let alone one with a no-compete clause was because they cut corners on everything. They originally acquired me through a recruitment agency and simply told the agency that I wasn't good enough but offered me the job directly avoiding the finder's fee. They also only use pirate software and steal from their suppliers. They do all this to remain competitive without doing any real good business. I don't feel bad and neither should any legit business out there.

I don't want to it myself because this job I have now is bigger than it for now. I see no reason why I couldn't get someone to run it for me while I work for another company (this one gave me a contract on the first day).

so your wanting to cut the very same corners - if you want someone to run it for you take on a member of staff.




give them a contract though

 

[cica]

so your wanting to gut the very same corners - if you want someone to run it for you take on a member of staff.




give them a contract though

I'm not looking to the same corners at all. I didn't use any illegal software to create the site. I didn't rip any employment agency off. I broke no contract. It's not even close! I'm surprised you can't see that. I'm potentially open to giving away most of a company in return for taking it on.

Yes, I am also considering paying a member of staff but I thought I'd explore this opportunity as well since I can also benefit this way and so can an existing small business who gets free shares in a viable company.

Like I say, maybe it is a stupid idea, which is why I'm on here to ask.

 

[sysops]

The reason they didn't give me any contract let alone one with a no-compete clause was because they cut corners on everything. They originally acquired me through a recruitment agency and simply told the agency that I wasn't good enough but offered me the job directly avoiding the finder's fee. They also only use pirate software and steal from their suppliers. They do all this to remain competitive without doing any real good business. I don't feel bad and neither should any legit business out there.

They may be a crap company, or not - all we have is your interpretation.

I don't want to it myself because this job I have now is bigger than it for now. I see no reason why I couldn't get someone to run it for me while I work for another company (this one gave me a contract on the first day). I get fed up with bad employers so decide to go alone and then I actually get a respectable employer offering me a great salary only a walking distance away. I'd be a fool not to. I don't think I have to choose between the two. I can give someone my company to run.

This bit I just don't buy. Why would you have gone to all the trouble of setting up your new business if all you were looking for was a job?

It doesn't add up.

I think you went ahead and did it, then thought "oh crap". Am I right?

 

[cica]

They may be a crap company, or not - all we have is your interpretation.



This bit I just don't buy. Why would you have gone to all the trouble of setting up your new business if all you were looking for was a job?

It doesn't add up.

I think you went ahead and did it, then thought "oh crap". Am I right?

Yes, you do only have my interpretation. It's like that with everything.

Because I looked for about 3 years for my dream job. I gave up looking. Then one came along. It sounds ridiculous but it's true. It's a massive pay rise on what I was earning before and 10mins walk from my flat. It would have been difficult to turn it down and it was.

I COULD take a loss on the project and just be an employee but I'm offering the chance for someone else to benefit too here.

Even if you don't believe a word of it I'd be extremely grateful of any replies that do assume I'm telling the truth.

Replies from people based on assumptions I've not given wouldn't be much use to me. I get the most valuable replies by actually describing my situation in exact detail (the truth). I'd only be wasting my own time getting advise on a situation that doesn't even exist.

Thanks

 

[sysops]

Ok, let's assume that your view of the situation is completely accurate, and that you are being 100% truthful.

Quantify what you have - apart from some supplier accounts and a contract with DPD, what do you have to sell/give away?

 

[cica]

Ok, let's assume that your view of the situation is completely accurate, and that you are being 100% truthful.

Quantify what you have - apart from some supplier accounts and a contract with DPD, what do you have to sell/give away?

Stock. Website. I have everything. I've already made sales but I had to start my new job 2 weeks ago. Ever since I've been wondering what to do with it.

If I was a small business, say, selling ladies tights, and I was already set up to read orders off a sheet and pack them, and someone came to me and said, "here's a website (I will develop/manage it), you hold my stock, you post them out, and here's my justification on why it will work".

"In return you get part of the company for free with the setup work already done. You get your proportion of future profits. I'm happy to invest more if you think it's needed."

 

[sysops]

Stock. Website. I have everything. I've already made sales but I had to start my new job 2 weeks ago. Ever since I've been wondering what to do with it.

If I was a small business, say, selling ladies tights, and I was already set up to read orders off a sheet and pack them, and someone came to me and said, "here's a website (I will develop/manage it), you hold my stock, you post them out, and here's my justification on why it will work".

"In return you get part of the company for free with the setup work already done. You get your proportion of future profits. I'm happy to invest more if you think it's needed."

How much stock? And what type of product is it? (if you don't want to say on the forum, because you think your former employers are reading, PM me).

 

[cica]

How much stock? And what type of product is it? (if you don't want to say on the forum, because you think your former employers are reading, PM me).

£10k stock. Work clothing. I'm not afraid of giving that information away.

One option is to bin this idea off and sell the stock and forget about the company (the supplier would be pissed off at me flooding the market with discount goods though). But with unemployment high and companies struggling then why not launch a really efficient company that could do well for all involved.

I advertise on AdWords (I've been a developer/marketer for some successful internet retailers).

Anyone could go and do what I did and many have but their websites aren't that great. Because I started the company and because I'm a developer+marketer myself I made what I consider to be a great website correcting all the mistakes I think my rivals make. Small businesses seem to struggle to improve their service because of the owner trying to micro manage everything and not trusting staff. I didn't have that problem. I did everything and cheap (only my own time as I lived off my savings for 3 months).

Thanks

 

[cica]

The new shareholders get me too. My evening and weekend time doing development+marketing. I could even help out with their own company.

 

[SamStones]

If the business is such a hot prospect why aren't you working on it full time for your own gains. If I thought I was onto a winner I wouldn't then take a job working for someone else.

I assume from the original post that the business isn't generating enough money to keep a roof over your head?

It would help if you could give some details on the type of business... you say it's ecommerce , so is it retail or service, does it hold stock or assets etc Is it local or national ?

I don't know how you would go about avertising it to be honest... sounds like you're essentially looking for a business partner rather than a buyer?

 

[cica]

If the business is such a hot prospect why aren't you working on it full time for your own gains. If I thought I was onto a winner I wouldn't then take a job working for someone else.

I assume from the original post that the business isn't generating enough money to keep a roof over your head?

It would help if you could give some details on the type of business... you say it's ecommerce , so is it retail or service, does it hold stock or assets etc Is it local or national ?

I don't know how you would go about avertising it to be honest... sounds like you're essentially looking for a business partner rather than a buyer?

Hi Sam, I don't claim it's some amazing business "just" a viable profitable one improving on what some companies already do.

I thought long and hard about going back to work. I've got plenty of savings but the job offer I got was too good to refuse even though I had my own company.

I am not trying to sell the company. No one would buy it but I am searching to see if anyone would accept free shares for running it...yes, effectively a business partner. And back to the point of this thread...where can I go online for such a thing? I got a strike for asking on here but this thread is about asking where I can go? Any recommended websites? Networking events?

I have already had a couple of offers in the private messages on this site and I am following them up.

Thanks

 

[SamStones]

Apologies for some of the questions in my last post... I opened up a number of threads this morning and started reading before I went out for the day. I've come back, opened my netbook and presumed the pages had refreshed... they hadn't and I hadn't seen a number of the last posts before posting...

anyway, to get to the point, I don't know what else you could do... there must be some businesses for sale forums etc somewhere?

 

[Retail Recruit UK]

I'd be surprised if you found someone to pick up and continue with 'The Business', as really had very minimal sales and highly likely without you there is little more then a website, and stock.

Probably better to find someone you know and then you'd still be involved and they would know you and if it is a great opportunity.

Good Luck

 

[movietub]

I own a medium sized ecommerce business, We are in fact looking to either purchase or build another site and run it alongisde our current one - sharing certain resources and crucially our experience and succesful method.

But I sense a flaw in your plan!

Even If you gave me 50% shares in you're business, I would only own 50% of effectively nothing (and I guess 5k of stock). I could only extract value by putting in man hours, and I would have to charge those man hours, and other resources, to your (or 'our') business... It sounds like you're expecting that the giving away the shares would get a return in effort from someone else, including the day to day running of the business and processing of orders. This is not realistic. In that situation you would get my input and direction for free of course, but the operating costs and risks to get it moving would always be applied to the business - the business that you would still own 50% of.

So are you confident enough in the business, after only a few sales, to allow someone else to develop it for you? If it crashed, you would still potentially be liable for your share (and share of responsibility for the crash).

 

[cica]

I'd be surprised if you found someone to pick up and continue with 'The Business', as really had very minimal sales and highly likely without you there is little more then a website, and stock.

Probably better to find someone you know and then you'd still be involved and they would know you and if it is a great opportunity.

Good Luck

Seems like genuine feedback so thank you. Elsewhere when asking around I have now had some interest but of course the devil is in the detail. I am looking for genuine advice from business people like you (guess) so I take it on board.

 

[cica]

I own a medium sized ecommerce business, We are in fact looking to either purchase or build another site and run it alongisde our current one - sharing certain resources and crucially our experience and succesful method.

But I sense a flaw in your plan!

Even If you gave me 50% shares in you're business, I would only own 50% of effectively nothing (and I guess 5k of stock). I could only extract value by putting in man hours, and I would have to charge those man hours, and other resources, to your (or 'our') business... It sounds like you're expecting that the giving away the shares would get a return in effort from someone else, including the day to day running of the business and processing of orders. This is not realistic. In that situation you would get my input and direction for free of course, but the operating costs and risks to get it moving would always be applied to the business - the business that you would still own 50% of.

So are you confident enough in the business, after only a few sales, to allow someone else to develop it for you? If it crashed, you would still potentially be liable for your share (and share of responsibility for the crash).

Now we're talking! If these are the concerns that potential partners would have then that's great because that's why I asked the question. Previously I was getting accused of crime!

You wouldn't get 50% of nothing. You'd get 50% of stock. 50% of a company that I would "sell" to you as a good investment. Also, my own skills (I've had a lot of success in growing e-commerce companies). Also, as I've said before, I'm not doing this because I have no money. I'd be more than happy to put in some extra investment as part of a deal to cover as perceived un-due risk on operating costs.

I would still be heavily involved in the business when I'm not doing my day job. I would do the development and the marketing. They are also a significant part of the business.

But, you've raised a genuine concern that I should be thinking about so thank you. I don't think it's a show stopper but I guess I'll find out.

 

[movietub]

Now we're talking! If these are the concerns that potential partners would have then that's great because that's why I asked the question. Previously I was getting accused of crime!

You wouldn't get 50% of nothing. You'd get 50% of stock. 50% of a company that I would "sell" to you as a good investment. Also, my own skills (I've had a lot of success in growing e-commerce companies). Also, as I've said before, I'm not doing this because I have no money. I'd be more than happy to put in some extra investment as part of a deal to cover as perceived un-due risk on operating costs.

I would still be heavily involved in the business when I'm not doing my day job. I would do the development and the marketing. They are also a significant part of the business.

But, you've raised a genuine concern that I should be thinking about so thank you. I don't think it's a show stopper but I guess I'll find out.

The core problem is the lack of sales. It may be that the business does have increadible potential, you may even be able to prove as much. But how do you get someone to look hard enough at the offer in order to prove it?

You have to remember that people are always being pushed ideas and opportunities. People won't want to take over any of your business unless they can convince themselves that it's worth fresh investment and time. And without at least 6 months of strong and increasing sales, there is nothing to attract that level of interest from anyone.

Sure they get the stock, but even at 50% thats only 5k. I'm sure there is some other value in the shares as well, but it's never going to be equal to the cost of immediate investment needed to push the business forwards.

Thats doesn't mean this is a pointless idea though, just that it's going to be hard to push it commercially. You would probably be better to find a family or friend member that would take the shares and work on it. Possibly someone that only works part time, stay home mum etc? Someone who can build it gradually without needing to invest money up-front.

 

[cica]

The core problem is the lack of sales. It may be that the business does have increadible potential, you may even be able to prove as much. But how do you get someone to look hard enough at the offer in order to prove it?

You have to remember that people are always being pushed ideas and opportunities. People won't want to take over any of your business unless they can convince themselves that it's worth fresh investment and time. And without at least 6 months of strong and increasing sales, there is nothing to attract that level of interest from anyone.

Sure they get the stock, but even at 50% thats only 5k. I'm sure there is some other value in the shares as well, but it's never going to be equal to the cost of immediate investment needed to push the business forwards.

Thats doesn't mean this is a pointless idea though, just that it's going to be hard to push it commercially. You would probably be better to find a family or friend member that would take the shares and work on it. Possibly someone that only works part time, stay home mum etc? Someone who can build it gradually without needing to invest money up-front.

People have already been interested elsewhere now so I guess my query as to where I could go has been answered somewhat.

I'm still an "asset" to the company being a development/marketing guy.

I've already had my mum helping out but there are problems with that. The main problem is the economic concept of marginal cost. Amalgamating my new business with an existing business means the marginal costs of those new sales are very modest since I've already made the website (and I consider it very good) and done everything else. The cost of my first sale was admittedly enormous like any starting business (Fixed costs+variable costs / sales). The cost of the first sale after someone has taken this on is a lot more reasonable.

Thank you for your comments that I do appreciate as being very valid points/concerns.