What is this so called soft exit

D

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But without the motivation of making a money and turning a profit that drives a lot of the private sector efficiencies and innovation, how do you address the systemic problems within the public sector before you waste a tonne of money that would sadly be absorbed like a sponge without a correlation in front line service improvement?
In both the public and private sector in the UK the standard of management is very poor. I have my own theory which is that the rot started after the second world war when returning servicemen were given jobs over the heads of the civilians who had done a superb job during the conflict. Their background in the military did not transfer well to industry. They started a system which has perpetuated to today.

Nothing will improve until we change our management culture.
 
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quikshop

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In both the public and private sector in the UK the standard of management is very poor. I have my own theory which is that the rot started after the second world war when returning servicemen were given jobs over the heads of the civilians who had done a superb job during the conflict. Their background in the military did not transfer well to industry. They started a system which has perpetuated to today.

Nothing will improve until we change our management culture.

No doubt, I've been contracting for 17 years and incompetence across all sectors never ceases to amaze, but the difference is the pace of change in the private sector; poor management decisions are often found out and result in a change of direction or personnel. It doesn't always result in instant improvement but the speed of change means improvement is eventually found and eventually drives efficiency... or the business collapses.

Contrast that to public sector malaise, an acceptance of mediocrity, motivation for collective improvement lacking because leadership is lacking and change is very slow if it comes at all. I could write a book on the battles I've had within the public sector to drive service improvement and innovation, there are always reasons not to change because that invites risk and that needs genuine engagement.

Lots of generalisations there but I stand by my premise; until the systemic problems with the public sector are addressed (are socialists even allowed to talk openly about these issues?), the idea that huge investment in the public sector would result in a correlating improvement in front line services is a myth.
 
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Chris Ashdown

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    There is another point of view that during the war many educated men were made officers,who lived separate lives and rules from the basic Soldier, airman and sailor, had waiters and batmen to look after them, and slept in separate quarters

    After the War they found it impossible to live the same standard of life and could only go back to their old jobs that were far below the life they had been accustomed to

    No idea if that made any difference or not, just a point of view
     
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    STDFR33

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    In both the public and private sector in the UK the standard of management is very poor. I have my own theory which is that the rot started after the second world war when returning servicemen were given jobs over the heads of the civilians who had done a superb job during the conflict. Their background in the military did not transfer well to industry. They started a system which has perpetuated to today.

    Nothing will improve until we change our management culture.

    I am in my last week of serving my notice for a large organisation.

    The number of staff off sick with 'mental health related illnesses' (stress!) is staggering. 'Efficiencies' have meant that staff are not being replaced, and this means that for a lot of staff, they work well in excess of their contracted 37 hours.

    The latest answer to solve this? Create another layer of management at a cost of over £300k per annum. Still no extra bodies to do the actual work.

    Senior management seem to be clueless, and nobody wants to take any sort of responsibility - probably explains why there are layers upon layers of management.
     
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    Newchodge

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    But without the motivation of making a money and turning a profit that drives a lot of the private sector efficiencies and innovation, how do you address the systemic problems within the public sector before you waste a tonne of money that would sadly be absorbed like a sponge without a correlation in front line service improvement?

    The motivation of making money and turning a profit are generally only there for business owners and shareholders. The workers are motivated by earning a living and doing a job they can be proud of. For the workers that is the same in both sectors.

    To motivate management in the public sector, who I agree can be appalling, (and I should know after 16 years as a full time union official dealing with local authorities) you need first to give them some stability - not changing the goalposts every year and not reducing the budget every year, which causes them to spend all their time on reorganisation plans, which achieve very little. You need to give them the ability to manage without looking over their heads in fear of the people above them. You need to take the politicians out of the day to day running. Politicians are there to set the agenda. Management is there to carry it out.

    Not on the question of motivation, but you need to stop the endless recycling of incompetent managers. I was regularly aware of managers being 'allowed to leave' because their appearance at work caused more harm than their permanent absence; they would then turn up in the identical role in another local authority, with the same predictable, result. You also need to end the disgraceful practice of making a manager redundant with a huge payoff and then offering the limited company that they immediately set up a contract to undertake the same work for twice the price. This last practice is, I believe, reducing.
     
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    Spend lots and lots of money and the resultant higher economic activity may actually boost the coffers to compensate (or part compensate) for the spending. There are some respected economists who buy into that theory.

    The problem is that there are also lots of economists who think that's complete bonkers i.e. there's a high chance the plan will backfire.

    It's called 'The Paradox of Thrift' and is one of the more well known paradoxes of economics.

    Economics is full of amazing and fascinating paradoxes. Wikipedia lists over 30 and there are many it does not list, such as the 'Bus Paradox' (one bus per day remains empty, but 10 busses per day are used intensively) or the 'Lump of Labour Paradox' (a reduction in hours worked by all leads to an increase in unemployment) but Wiki does list my favourite, the 'Tullock Paradox' (bribing a politician costs less than one would expect, considering how much profit it can yield).

    The Paradox of Thrift is one of the many such paradoxes, which come from the general principle that, what may be beneficial for an individual, is no longer beneficial for a much larger body or more complex economic entity, such as a business or a country.

    It is better for the individual to save, as the long-term returns for saving are far, far greater than the long-term returns for spending. However, that simple observation cannot even be scaled up to your local corner shop. The proprietor cannot save his shop from failure by cutting back on buying in stock or getting rid of his delivery van.

    According to Picketty in his massive work 'Capital in the 21st Century' nations grow on average at a rate of about 1% p.a. in real terms, whereas capital grows at c.a. 4%. In order to achieve the higher growth rate of capital, a nation has to invest in that capital. Just spending money ad liberatum would indeed be bonkers, but if you look at the very rich nations of Europe, they have all invested heavily in infrastructure - something the UK has very noticeably failed to do.

    As you once brilliantly pointed out, there is no need for speed cameras on the M25, as the traffic is more or less at a permanent standstill and portrait painters would be more appropriate. The motorways are too narrow, the trains are slow, expensive and unreliable, broadband coverage is patchy, the health service compares very poorly with the rest of Europe, educational standards are falling - and so on!

    Britain tried austerity once before, after the Napoleonic Wars and the result was the largest fall in living standards the country has ever seen in peace time. It didn't work then and it cannot work now.

    That should not mean that we waste money - the MoD does not need 55,000 civil servants, in fact, it probably doesn't need 5,000. We should not be subsidising the wilfully economic inactive. We should not be throwing money at the underpaid, thereby subsidising inefficient companies. And we certainly should not be giving N.I. £1bn to cure the problems that they created all by themselves and for themselves.
     
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    quikshop

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    but if you look at the very rich nations of Europe, they have all invested heavily in infrastructure - something the UK has very noticeably failed to do

    But we are a very rich nation, and although an optimist I suspect we'll be IN Europe for an awful long time to come. We are in fact the subject of an experiment; on one side of the Atlantic the Government have spent big and more so since The Donald took control. On the other side of the pond, the Government has reigned in spending to reduce the national deficit and over time eliminate the national debt.

    Who are the winners? I don't think Merryl Lynch, Goldman Sachs, The Carlisle Group et al are scrabbling around for the last can of Tomato Soup in the cupboard :rolleyes:
     
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    D

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    In order to achieve the higher growth rate of capital, a nation has to invest in that capital. Just spending money ad liberatum would indeed be bonkers, but if you look at the very rich nations of Europe, they have all invested heavily in infrastructure - something the UK has very noticeably failed to do.
    We are notoriously bad at spending on the right things. As an example in the 1600s John Speed was commissioned to survey a route from London to Land's End. Despite Land's End not being a destination his survey and descriptions were still being used in the 1970s. So fixated has the UK government been on the idea of west-east roads to the capital that there is almost no thought of connecting towns in the westcountry with north-south roads. Helston to Redruth, Launceston to Liskeard, Plymouth to Barnstaple are little more than country lanes through which big artic lorries struggle.

    Government plans to close a Devon hospital will condemn patients to long journeys on country roads. As a doctor remarked to me, it puts a whole new meaning on "local" anasthestic.
     
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    Recently whilst working in my front garden, my neighbours stopped to chat as they returned from walking the dog. During our friendly conversation I asked their little girl what she wanted to be when she grew up.

    She said she wanted to be Prime Minister one day. Both her parents, Labour Party members, beamed, so I asked her, "If you were Prime Minister what would the first thing you would do?" She replied " I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people." Her parents beamed even more.

    "Wow...what a worthy goal - but you don't have to wait until you're PM to do that!" I told her. "What do you mean?" she asked.

    "Come over to my house, mow the lawn and weed the beds and I'll pay you £50. Then you go over to the shop where the homeless guy hangs out and you can give him £50 towards his food." She mulled over this for a while and asked "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work and you can pay him the £50?

    I said "Welcome to the Conservative Party"

    (I admit I stole this - couldn't resist it)
     
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    Cobby

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    Recently whilst working in my front garden, my neighbours stopped to chat as they returned from walking the dog. During our friendly conversation I asked their little girl what she wanted to be when she grew up.

    She said she wanted to be Prime Minister one day. Both her parents, Labour Party members, beamed, so I asked her, "If you were Prime Minister what would the first thing you would do?" She replied " I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people." Her parents beamed even more.

    "Wow...what a worthy goal - but you don't have to wait until you're PM to do that!" I told her. "What do you mean?" she asked.

    "Come over to my house, mow the lawn and weed the beds and I'll pay you £50. Then you go over to the shop where the homeless guy hangs out and you can give him £50 towards his food." She mulled over this for a while and asked "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work and you can pay him the £50?

    I said "Welcome to the Conservative Party"

    (I admit I stole this - couldn't resist it)
    Yeah, I see this pop up occasionally from my American Republican friends.

    I have yet to see it posted outside the context of unacknowledged privilege and prejudice. The people posting it never acknowledge the social structure underlying their lives from which they benefit, and of course the homeless person in the story is always assumed to be a lazy good-for-nothing.

    The better story would be "I saw a little rich girl burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person, so I said to her 'Welcome to the Conservative Party'".
     
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    Yeah, I see this pop up occasionally from my American Republican friends.

    I have yet to see it posted outside the context of unacknowledged privilege and prejudice. The people posting it never acknowledge the social structure underlying their lives from which they benefit, and of course the homeless person in the story is always assumed to be a lazy good-for-nothing.

    The better story would be "I saw a little rich girl burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person, so I said to her 'Welcome to the Conservative Party'".

    Snowflake
     
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    Mr D

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    Government is bad at spending on the right things - so we want more spending?
    How will we know they will spend on the right things if they do start spending more?

    What are the right things?

    Or are they the wrong things because another party wants spending to be different?
     
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    Cobby

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    Government is bad at spending on the right things - so we want more spending?
    How will we know they will spend on the right things if they do start spending more?

    What are the right things?

    Or are they the wrong things because another party wants spending to be different?
    What are the right things? Things that improve or maintain society in a way that maintains the rights of the populace and in a manner that balances cost and efficiency. Evidence based spending policy.

    Things like drug rehabilitation programs and reducing the criminality of drugs - this is smart public spending as it saves money in lots of sectors and has a better impact socially. Governments don't like doing this though as the public consciousness is easily swayed by outrage, headlines and stereotypes, so instead we have ideology based spending policy.
     
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