What chains will be gone by the end of 2012

[Banned]

Please wake up...................smell the coffee.....etc Just one thing you can't do on the internet

You state 'Shops that don't need and wont benefit from selling on the web'.............If an internet presence can assist you to promote your business, why shouldn't you have it ? As I said, a brochure website may be of benefit, have one for my own shop as it happens. Also sold from it before and found it an utter waster of time and resources. Sorry if experience over uneducated opinion doesn't wash it with you. Have you ever owned a High Street shop?

Maybe you are stuck in your B&M shop twiddling your thumbs with nothing to do.............there is a world beyond your shop.....................promote it and let people find you. See above.

Why shun technology to help develop a business ? Never said anyone should if it's applicable to their business.

No one is doubting that the internet serves many businesses well. Just as the High Street will be the one and only home for many more businesses that the internet can't touch or benefit (as a medium to direct sales).

Guess things are different in China than the UK.

 

[MOIC]

No one is doubting that the internet serves many businesses well. Just as the High Street will be the one and only home for many more businesses that the internet can't touch or benefit (as a medium to direct sales).

Guess things are different in China than the UK.

Hi Banned

I have had over 30 years experience in retails shops in the UK.

I sold my 42 shops 5 years ago to a group who have over 1000 stores in Europe and are expanding in the USA and across the Far East.

The main reason for their expansion is due to their internet presence they have and sales it generates.

Uneducated opinion ?...........I don't think so.

All businesses can benefit from an online presence.

You're missing the point. The decline of the high street is due to many factors, one of which is the rise in internet sales.

Yes, there will always be a high street, but the problem is, will all the shop owners be happy with the turnover and profit ?

Sadly, the answer is an overwhelming No.

If you have a retail shop anywhere in the world, it does no harm whatsoever to have an internet presence, unless that is you are so despondent with your retail shop that you can't be bothered or have the appetite to improve it.

Yes, things are much different in China, retailers use technology to their advantage, not moan about it and look for reasons to discredit it.

It's not a case of one or the other, it's a case of, for the B&M retailer to survive and improve their business, to have an internet presence to promote and market their shop.

China is booming........can you say the same for the UK ?

Hope 2012 is good for ALL retailers, B&M and internet.

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[Banned]

Hi Banned

I sold my 42 shops 5 years ago to a group who have over 1000 stores in Europe and are expanding in the USA and across the Far East. Apologies then

It's not a case of one or the other, it's a case of, for the B&M retailer to survive and improve their business, to have an internet presence to promote and market their shop. As I said, brochure site no reason not to. To sell from, waste of time for many.

China is booming........can you say the same for the UK ? At the moment, will it last? Lets see, the UK have had their boom and it had nothing to do with the internet, and the end also had nothing to do with the internet - much like the States and the rest of Europe.

Hope 2012 is good for ALL retailers, B&M and internet.

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

So we can agree there is room for both, I've always said B&M and Internet will end up complimenting each other rather than competing. And the High Street will thrive now many large chains (who interestingly embraced the internet) are closing. It'll just be different, better even, with more variety of shops, it'll take a few years but it will happen.

Next time your in the UK have a look round the smaller/market towns, you might be surprised at how few empty shops there are and the variety of independents that are still trading after very many years. Of course this doesn't get reported in the press as it goes against the current misery we are constantly fed.

 

[quikshop]

Next time your in the UK have a look round the smaller/market towns, you might be surprised at how few empty shops there are and the variety of independents that are still trading after very many years. Of course this doesn't get reported in the press as it goes against the current misery we are constantly fed.

It doesn't get reported because it's the exception to the rule; most towns and cities we visit have an increasing number of vacant retail units coupled with an increase in charity outlets.

Mothercare is probably not a great example because their management are idiots, but its yet another example of a large high street retailer retreating from the high street in favour of Internet and overseas trade.

 

[Esk247]

and when you look at the cost of renting a shop in a small shopping centre...just...wow.

50k per annum minimum for a retail space the size of a peanut.

 

[Kanzi Marketing]

and when you look at the cost of renting a shop in a small shopping centre...just...wow.

50k per annum minimum for a retail space the size of a peanut.

Maybe the renting model for business is broken. Perhaps they need to charge a minimal rent + a percentage of sales to encourage new businesses to start up.

 

[mhall]

Just seen on Sky News that :

Shopping by mail and telephone order saw a 3% year-on-year decline, while face-to-face spending decreased by 1.4%. Online shopping saw a more modest annual decline of 0.4%.

Well I never, the internet in decline? I'll raise a glass to that !

 

[quikshop]

Well I never, the internet in decline? I'll raise a glass to that !

So in a recession online retail slows at the slowest rate of any form of retail and you think that's a victory

You must lie awake at night thinking of ways to sabotage the web

 

[RevaxMedia]

I would say, claire's accessories and WHSmiths (saying that they do pretty well out of me alone in airports, train stations and when I'm stranded with their very high prices! - WHSmiths that is, not claire's accessories!!)

 

[Banned]

So in a recession online retail slows at the slowest rate of any form of retail and you think that's a victory

You must lie awake at night thinking of ways to sabotage the web

Unlike certain people in China who spend all day talking down the High Street

And the tide has to turn somewhere, so let's not speculate but I'll say D) maybe next year the internet will be down a greater percentage than the High Street.

 

[Banned]

I would say, claire's accessories and WHSmiths (saying that they do pretty well out of me alone in airports, train stations and when I'm stranded with their very high prices! - WHSmiths that is, not claire's accessories!!)

Claire's accessories, very much like Tie Rack and Sock Shop in that they are very much "of the moment" so yes difficult (can't say they will go bust the PC brigade don't allow it!) times could be in store for them.

 

[mhall]

So in a recession online retail slows at the slowest rate of any form of retail and you think that's a victory

You must lie awake at night thinking of ways to sabotage the web

Not in the slightest, I have no problem with the internet at all. It is a marketing tool like any other brochure or business card.

I do, however, have great problems with those who think that selling via the internet is the b all and end all. As more and more of us are discovering, the internet attracts billions of people, and hundreds of millions of scam artists. With every scam reported, there are a few more people less willing to trust the internet with their credit cards or purchases and I see that as a good thing. Everyone should be on the internet, having an online shop is a totally different matter - it will work for some, not for others and certainly not for me

I understand officeinchina and the like bigging up the internet, it is his main source of income it would appear and his frequent posts will help in his search engine stats (and the idea is a good one, if I knew about him a couple of years ago when I needed someone in China he would have been my first port of call) but every single one of them lump every single Retailer into the same pot - effectivly "You haven't got an online Store, you will die" which is absolute rubbish. Until on line people realise the world is bigger than their desire to pay Amazon and PayPal Commision, I feel it is correct to stand up and say "actually, No"

Interestingly, and with the greatest of respect to officeinchina, he is using the internet to sell a product that is the very opposite of what the internet offers - a personal agent in another country - so many of his posts strike me as being ironic or tongue in cheek

 

[captaincloser]

"You haven't got an online Store, you will die" which is absolute rubbish.

You expect me to talk, Goldfinger ?

No Mr Bond, I expect you to die









.

 

[quikshop]

It is a marketing tool like any other brochure or business card.

Or a multi-faceted retail channel that can transform a small high street retail business into a much larger multi-national venture.

With every scam reported, there are a few more people less willing to trust the internet with their credit cards or purchases and I see that as a good thing.

Have you stopped going to restaurants or petrol stations because of the frequent reports of card cloning?

There is no evidence that more people are less willing to trust buying online. If anything the frequent scare stories that are typically released by vested interests through the BBC in the run-in to Christmas focus people's minds to be more selective in what web sites they choose to buy from.

"You haven't got an online Store, you will die" which is absolute rubbish.

I agree with this, there are some products that simply do not translate into distance sales.

 

[mhall]

Or a multi-faceted retail channel that can transform a small high street retail business into a much larger multi-national venture.

You are lobbing all Retailers into the same pot again, and that is my point -

For a very few yes, your point above makes absolute sense but not for those for whom it becomes a price sensitive market place. If you make your own product or can control the price of a product, go for it, but from my experience all it does is create a feeding frenzy where the person with the lowest price wins, irrespective of quality of service or even decent level of supply or ability to maintain an after sales service and that is NOT the Retail world I have ever been in, or want to be in.

I have just bought an ipad for hubby - I could have got it a whole £30 cheaper if I went on line, but I want to see the whites of the eyes of the person I am dealing with, and that is worth £30 to me. My sister would walk a mile to save a penny and will sit on ebay for hours trying to get a "decent price", quite frankly I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Not in the slightest, I have no problem with the internet at all. It is a marketing tool like any other brochure or business card.

I can remember 2 'must have marketing tools'. One was a very glossy trade directory. I went in once at a 1970s price of nearly £1,000. The only contacts I ever had from it were people trying to sell me something. Talking to people who had got work from it there was an interesting common thread; nearly all their bad debts were also through the directory.

The other was being in the business phone book. All I got from that was insurance salesman phoning for my business.

 

[MOIC]

Just seen on Sky News that :

Shopping by mail and telephone order saw a 3% year-on-year decline, while face-to-face spending decreased by 1.4%. Online shopping saw a more modest annual decline of 0.4%.

Well I never, the internet in decline? I'll raise a glass to that !

The economy (and shopping) is in decline in most parts of the world.

Do you realise the difference in monetary terms between 3%, 1.4% and 0.4% when talking about global spending?

It's huge !

The evidence is there for all to see.

Please don't bury your head in the sand, technology is a wonderful thing, use it to your advantage.

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[Banned]

Do you realise the difference in monetary terms between 3%, 1.4% and 0.4% when talking about global spending?

It's huge !

At last we agree, internet sales are down billions more than High Street sales

 

[MOIC]

Not in the slightest, I have no problem with the internet at all. It is a marketing tool like any other brochure or business card.

I do, however, have great problems with those who think that selling via the internet is the b all and end all. Not b all and end all, just essential to have an internet presence. As more and more of us are discovering, the internet attracts billions of people, and hundreds of millions of scam artists. With every scam reported, there are a few more people less willing to trust the internet with their credit cards or purchases and I see that as a good thing. Everyone should be on the internet, having an online shop is a totally different matter - it will work for some, not for others and certainly not for me. How can having an online presence harm your business ?

I understand officeinchina and the like bigging up the internet, it is his main source of income it would appear and his frequent posts will help in his search engine stats Sorry to disappoint, it is far from being my main source of income. I am a business consultant to many businesses wordlwide who have retail shops as well as an online presence. I do not take sides with either way of retailing, I just say that you must use the internet to be able to maximise your business outlet potential, whether it be one retail shop in a small town or a multinational. (and the idea is a good one, if I knew about him a couple of years ago when I needed someone in China he would have been my first port of call) but every single one of them lump every single Retailer into the same pot - effectivly "You haven't got an online Store, you will die" which is absolute rubbish. Who said die ? You have to look at all ways to enhance your business, and if having an online presence is one way, then why not do it ? Until on line people realise the world is bigger than their desire to pay Amazon and PayPal Commision, I feel it is correct to stand up and say "actually, No" The internet is bigger than Amazon, and there are many different ways to get paid, other than Paypal.

Interestingly, and with the greatest of respect to officeinchina, he is using the internet to sell a product that is the very opposite of what the internet offers - a personal agent in another country - so many of his posts strike me as being ironic or tongue in cheek

I use many methods, the internet being one. I think it proves my point.

Best of luck for 2012

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[MOIC]

At last we agree, internet sales are down billions more than High Street sales

How did you work than one out ??!!

Retail sales have declined by 1% more than internet sales. (1.4% as opposed to 0.4%)

I hope you're calculator wasn't made in China !

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[Banned]

How did you work than one out ??!!

Retail sales have declined by 1% more than internet sales. (1.4% as opposed to 0.4%)

I hope you're calculator wasn't made in China !

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

If you can't see it, I'm not going to be the one to tell you! Although you do seem to be at odds now as to what you've been claiming in the past if you truly believe this post.

 

[MOIC]

If you can't see it, I'm not going to be the one to tell you! Although you do seem to be at odds now as to what you've been claiming in the past if you truly believe this post.

Please be the one to tell me............

A decline of 3%

A decline of 1.4%

A decline of 0.4%

Which has the slowest rate of decline ?

Or to put it another way, which area of selling has lost the most sales ?

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[Esk247]

At last we agree, internet sales are down billions more than High Street sales

so the High Street is out performing the internet? are you sure? really????

How many chain stores have gone bust over October, November, December, January and on target to collapse in February???? any idea???

As for independents, our neighbours have decided to close. They're taking 3 times the cash online and for a 10th of the outlay. They don't even need storage now because they've arranged for the suppliers to ship to their customers. Bingo!

They're turnover online avg: £10,000 p/month
Turnover in-store: £3,500 p/month

What do they sell?...shoes! The same as Brantano and other chain stores. Are they price competitive with them? not really, on the whole the neighbours are more expensive but they have such a following and with some goodies chucked in that they're growing month on month where as on the high street...dead and they're paying for staff at weekends to sit in the shop twiddling their thumbs.

 

[Esk247]

Please be the one to tell me............

A decline of 3%

A decline of 1.4%

A decline of 0.4%

Which has the slowest rate of decline ?

Or to put it another way, which area of selling has lost the most sales ?

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

Indeed. Basic maths. Retail is down across 9 out of 10 sectors and the hardest hit is the high street.

Did I just hear another 100 stores closing? La Senza!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/09/morrisons-christmas-sales-disappoint

 

[mhall]

How can having an online presence hard your business?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I sell a product and try and sell it online after doing the hard work of sellingthe benefits to the potential customer, my potential customer sees it on line and two clicks later sees it somewhere else cheaper - my business is harmed.

and please, make a distinction in your argument - no one is suggesting an on line presence is a bad thing, I am arguing that on line shops are not always a good idea. - and we are way off topic

 

[mhall]

How did you work than one out ??!!

Retail sales have declined by 1% more than internet sales. (1.4% as opposed to 0.4%)

I hope you're calculator wasn't made in China !

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

Now I know you are just trolling, 0.4% of billions is a lot more than 1.4% of millions.

 

[Esk247]

I sell a product and try and sell it online after doing the hard work of sellingthe benefits to the potential customer, my potential customer sees it on line and two clicks later sees it somewhere else cheaper - my business is harmed.

If they can buy it online cheaper then you don't have a USP. Your product is not worth as much to the customer if they wish to buy it cheaper elsewhere.

 

[Esk247]

Now I know you are just trolling, 0.4% of billions is a lot more than 1.4% of millions.

This was your original quote:

Just seen on Sky News that :

Shopping by mail and telephone order saw a 3% year-on-year decline, while face-to-face spending decreased by 1.4%. Online shopping saw a more modest annual decline of 0.4%.

Well I never, the internet in decline? I'll raise a glass to that !

At no point was there a distinction between millions or billions, you simply stated 1.4% and 0.4%

 

[mhall]

If they can buy it online cheaper then you don't have a USP. Your product is not worth as much to the customer if they wish to buy it cheaper elsewhere.

For some reason beyond my utter comprehension, you are obsessed with price. Retail shops survive because of their own unique USP and it is rarely about price. I have no intention of explaining the real customer journey to you and the percentage of people who buy on price alone (just over 21%) as opposed to those who will pay extra for the USP that good Retailers have (just over 70%) Everyone wants a bargain, but most people also know that you get what you pay for. We have never been cheapest for the products we sell and never will be.

 

[mhall]

This was your original quote:

Just seen on Sky News that :

Shopping by mail and telephone order saw a 3% year-on-year decline, while face-to-face spending decreased by 1.4%. Online shopping saw a more modest annual decline of 0.4%.

Well I never, the internet in decline? I'll raise a glass to that !

At no point was there a distinction between millions or billions, you simply stated 1.4% and 0.4%

and you have not bothered to read the conversation from other people that mentioned millions.

 

For some reason beyond my utter comprehension, you are obsessed with price. Retail shops survive because of their own unique USP and it is rarely about price. I have no intention of explaining the real customer journey to you and the percentage of people who buy on price alone (just over 21%).

Have you a source for that ?

My experience is that over 90% of the population buy everyday products on price.

Not saying in the service industry and speciallty areas price may well not be the main consideration.

I mean who wants a cheap whore?


Earl

 

[kulture]

What is all this bickering to do with the thread topic. What chains will be gone by the end of 2012.

if you want to argue the pros and cons of Internet shops over B&M start another thread, please.

 

[Banned]

What is all this bickering to do with the thread topic. What chains will be gone by the end of 2012.

if you want to argue the pros and cons of Internet shops over B&M start another thread, please.

It is sort of related because, apparently this is fact , B&M shops are closing because they don't have an internet site. If they did they would be booming.

Funny that when you look at the chains that have been closing!

Anyway, back on topic(ish), apparently the decline in High Street footfall lessened last year with Christmas (December) footfall up by 5.1% and shoppers shunning the cities to shop local and with the independents.

As I and others have said the High Street is changing, and it looks like local and independent are already (albeit slowly) seeing that change.

http://www.theretailbulletin.com/news/high_street_footfall_decline_slows_in_2011_09-01-12/

 

[josor]

I was always told, never to put your eggs in one basket. Internet sales are on the way up, but they will go down eventually as you never know what regulations may come into force, the targeting of certain sites by hacking groups etc.

It is better to have both b&m and a internet presence, at the end of the day it compliments both as you get the shopper that will shop just online or the shopper that likes to come in and appreciate customer service and physically looking at goods before purchasing.

 

[MOIC]

Now I know you are just trolling, 0.4% of billions is a lot more than 1.4% of millions.

Are you serious about your maths ?

( Also i think you are mixing the millions with billions to suit your argument )

The original post was in the same denomination. The difference in decline was represented by %.

I am not sure how you calculate an 0.4% in decline as more than 1.4% in decline.

Basic maths.

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[mhall]

My apologies for responding to off topic stuff but it's very easy to do when the internet evangelical Internet warriors start off. All I would state is that, as far as I can determine, every chain that has gone under lately HAD an internet trading site, so it is hardly the panacea to all things B & M. They did NOT go under because of a lack of using the internet. They went under for a myriad of reasons, lots of Business Rates being just one of them.

 

[MOIC]

What is all this bickering to do with the thread topic. What chains will be gone by the end of 2012.

if you want to argue the pros and cons of Internet shops over B&M start another thread, please.[/QUOTE)

I think the thread evolved as to the reasons why...............

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA

 

[Banned]

I was always told, never to put your eggs in one basket. Internet sales are on the way up, but they will go down eventually as you never know what regulations may come into force, the targeting of certain sites by hacking groups etc.

It is better to have both b&m and a internet presence, at the end of the day it compliments both as you get the shopper that will shop just online or the shopper that likes to come in and appreciate customer service and physically looking at goods before purchasing.

My last comment on this, as it's getting tedious (not aimed at you josor).

If as a small independent I have an internet site selling the same items I WILL have to sell them cheaper than I do in the shop to compete with other sites.

How do I then explain that to my B&M customers? I'll loose them as they will be a bit miffed that they pay more, or they will just order the items cheaper on-line. I'm competing with myself and loosing my POR. Maybe the large chains can get away with it (or looking at the state of many of them maybe not), an independent never will.

I'll stick to my brochure style site thanks and encourage more people to visit the shop rather than piddle off and loose my current and regular customers.

Ron, final word on you maths and posts. They don't tie up, in fact they contradict. I'm now doubting the experience you claim to have. So before we fall out forgive me for not replying further to your posts on that topic

 

[quikshop]

You are lobbing all Retailers into the same pot again, and that is my point -

For a very few yes, your point above makes absolute sense but not for those for whom it becomes a price sensitive market place.

If you make your own product or can control the price of a product, go for it, but from my experience all it does is create a feeding frenzy where the person with the lowest price wins, irrespective of quality of service or even decent level of supply or ability to maintain an after sales service and that is NOT the Retail world I have ever been in, or want to be in.

I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying but there are a lot of online shoppers who value the experience and service as much as a competitive price.

I ran an aromatherapy business many moons ago with my wife and our policy was to trade on the perception of quality that a higher price brings rather than compete with the ten-a-penny 10%ers who think the difference between the wholesale and retail price is profit!

It worked very well, we drove our main competitor out of business who offered identically sourced products at nearly half the price.

The temptation online is to price-match; unless its a deliberate policy to run at a loss in order to gain market share or hammer a competitor I think its a fools approach.

I have just bought an ipad for hubby - I could have got it a whole £30 cheaper if I went on line, but I want to see the whites of the eyes of the person I am dealing with, and that is worth £30 to me. My sister would walk a mile to save a penny and will sit on ebay for hours trying to get a "decent price", quite frankly I have better things to do with my time.

Exactly, and there are plenty of online shoppers who want the prestige of paying a little extra for the personalised service, that extra bit of wrapping around their gift and sense of being valued by the retailer.

 

[MOIC]

Time to move on...............or off this thread.

We've all had our say and as other posters have said............its getting tedious.

Ron
MYOFFICEINCHINA