Viewing competitor's accounts

[JGC]

I know you can get balance sheets & P&L from companies house on subscription but does anyone know a good website to get 1 off reports cheaply and instantly?

thanks

 

[RobBellAutus]

I've used Checksure reliably in the past - various levels of report available, reasonably priced and delivered by email thus pretty much instant. You can buy discounted packages as well, if you are likely to need large numbers of reports.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

you can get filed accounts for £1 at Companies House - no subscription required.

Remember though that for small companies it may just be filed abbreviated accounts which may not tell you a lot!

 

[Shaun_Pearce]

Hello JGC,

In my previous life I used to work for a credit reference agency in South Wales. I can fire over a report to you for you to have a look see.

Elainec100 is correct however i that if the company is not that big, you wont get much information from the accounts. Consider reviewing a full company credit report to get a clearer understanding of how the business is doing.

I would suggest reviewing other information such as the following which I don't mind running you through over the phone.

Credit Rating
Credit Limit
5 years worth of accounts information (see any trends)
Director information
Media coverage (handy to track local press)

Drop me a PM with the company name or company number if you know it. I'll email you a report.

All the best

Shaun

 

[JGC]

thanks rob and eleaine. on the compnaies house webcheck service it says:

Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/09/2008 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)

does this exemption mean there will be no account data lodged?

 

[Shaun_Pearce]

I've got your email JGC, I can fire an email over to you and give you a call to give you my view on the report if that helps...

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

thanks rob and eleaine. on the compnaies house webcheck service it says:

Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/09/2008 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)

does this exemption mean there will be no account data lodged?

No it means they have filed abbreviated accounts which will just be the balance sheet and notes.

 

[Shaun_Pearce]

JGC, I've got about 10 minutes before I go in to a meeting.

Drop me a number and email if you want me to call.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

No it means they have filed abbreviated accounts which will just be the balance sheet and notes.

Just to mention you can sometimes be lucky and find full accounts filed - some accountants are lazy and will file the full accounts rather than abbreviated ones. I hasten to add I dont, but did used to work for a firm who did this as standard practice, and it was a large firm!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Just to mention you can sometimes be lucky and find full accounts filed - some accountants are lazy and will file the full accounts rather than abbreviated ones. I hasten to add I dont, but did used to work for a firm who did this as standard practice, and it was a large firm!

good point Nicola

I forget that some accountants are useless

 

[Jaydee]

Some interesting views

We, as standard, file full accounts unless the client specifically asks for abbreviated to be filed.

We use Iris, and so abbreviated accounts are generated in exactly the same way as full with no extra work (so it is not from laziness!) but work on the basis that suppliers or future customers not having access to full data is potentially more damaging/annoying that competitors having access to full data.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Some interesting views

We, as standard, file full accounts unless the client specifically asks for abbreviated to be filed.

We use Iris, and so abbreviated accounts are generated in exactly the same way as full with no extra work (so it is not from laziness!) but work on the basis that suppliers or future customers not having access to full data is potentially more damaging/annoying that competitors having access to full data.

I think its fair to say most of us use software which enables abbreviated accounts to be produced as quickly as the full accounts so your comment is an interesting one, and not one I had actually taken on board before now.

I must admit I tend to take the opposite view in that my small company clients dont want information availiable to Jo public - out of interest do you ask all of your clients each year if they actually want to file full accounts?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I file abbreviated as the info is public record and if it doesn't need to be there then why show it.

If a supplier, customer or other requests the accounts it is up to the client to authorise release of the full ones.

 

[Jaydee]

out of interest do you ask all of your clients each year if they actually want to file full accounts?

As full accounts are our default position, we ask whether they want abbreviated accounts rather than asking whether they want full. Then, once they confirm full, we proceed on that basis each year unless they advise differently.

I wonder what the respective directors think that they have to lose by Joe Public being able to look?

I think that in our entire history, nobody has ever asked for abbreviated other than to avoid a late filing penalty by allowing an online submission on deadline day.

 

[Jenni384]

I file abbreviated as the info is public record and if it doesn't need to be there then why show it.

If a supplier, customer or other requests the accounts it is up to the client to authorise release of the full ones.

Yep, we also work on this basis. It fits my way of thinking better.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

As full accounts are our default position, we ask whether they want abbreviated accounts rather than asking whether they want full. Then, once they confirm full, we proceed on that basis each year unless they advise differently.

I wonder what the respective directors think that they have to lose by Joe Public being able to look?

I think that in our entire history, nobody has ever asked for abbreviated other than to avoid a late filing penalty by allowing an online submission on deadline day.

Its certainly interesting to hear another view point. Its not one I share but interesting never the same.

I wonder if all of your clients actually understand the significance of filing full accounts rather than abbreviated ones? Then again how many of them understand the accounts..thats another matter!

I wont be quite so critcial when I see full accounts filed in future

 

[Geoff T]

Hi All,

I read this thread with interest... do posters not think that more info gives a better idea for the credit reference agencies to give a proper rating/limit to their clients?

I can't remember how many times I've had to ask a prospective customer for current management accounts to back up a credit application...(and yes, I CAN count to quite a high number!)

Do you not think more info is better than less - especially at the moment?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi All,

I read this thread with interest... do posters not think that more info gives a better idea for the credit reference agencies to give a proper rating/limit to their clients?

I can't remember how many times I've had to ask a prospective customer for current management accounts to back up a credit application...(and yes, I CAN count to quite a high number!)

Do you not think more info is better than less - especially at the moment?

I personally always use the small company exemption rules whenever possible and only file abbreviated accounts to prevent my clients competitors and anyone who is just being nosey looking at the accounts.

I think the information contained in small company accounts is private and that if it is required to support a credit application it can be sent directly to the finance company/bank in question.

 

[Jenni384]

Hi All,

I read this thread with interest... do posters not think that more info gives a better idea for the credit reference agencies to give a proper rating/limit to their clients?

I can't remember how many times I've had to ask a prospective customer for current management accounts to back up a credit application...(and yes, I CAN count to quite a high number!)

Do you not think more info is better than less - especially at the moment?

I think the difference is choice - you can supply information to who you want, as opposed to all and sundry being able to see it.

Moreover, let's say a company filed full accounts - at the last minute. You're therefore looking at data that is 9-10 months old. Surely up-to-date management accounts are likely to be requested anyway?

 

[Geoff T]

Fair point ladies,

It's just - from a credit view - the increasing withholding of info makes lenders ever more nervous! (and they operate in a catatonic state as it is at the mo!)

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Fair point ladies,

It's just - from a credit view - the increasing withholding of info makes lenders ever more nervous! (and they operate in a catatonic state as it is at the mo!)

with all due respect nothing is being withheld. Statutory duties are being met.

A sole trader doesn't have to show such info?

So my view is as long as stat duties are met then all well and good.

 

[Geoff T]

with all due respect nothing is being withheld. Statutory duties are being met.

A sole trader doesn't have to show such info?

So my view is as long as stat duties are met then all well and good.

With equal respect, I understand your point...

My point is - to clarify - maybe in some cases, more volunteered info would be better than the legal minimum?

If you're doing well, so well that you may be thinking of growing your business, why not tell people...it might help the financing of said growth...

ps - the increasing withholding of info meant the new thing wwith director's info...sorry, didn't mean to confuse the issue!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

But then say if a business does not give more info - do they get penalised for this?

Let's face it - why should be make you job easier he he he

 

[Geoff T]

But then say if a business does not give more info - do they get penalised for this?

simple answer? yes...

you can't tell me credit's as easy to come by now as it was 2 yrs ago!

Let's face it - why should be make you job easier he he he

It's not about making my job easier, it's about enabling possible credit offerors to make better informed decisions...if someone's keeping something back, I'm inclined to ask "why"...

back atchya!

 

[Geoff T]

ps - small co's in my experience have always suffered because of the lack of info, it's just worse now because of the economic situation...

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Enterprise Finance Guarantee

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/ent...s-owners/access-to-finance/efg/page37607.html

 

[Geoff T]

and how many businesses do you know that have benefited from this? anyone?

and how much cash have they actually lent?

to how many businesses?

OH Yeah - and how...exactly...does a business prove it is viable Elaine? by providing the stat-allowed accounts?...I doubt it...

More Govt BS...IMHO...not buying that...not for a minute!

 

[Geoff T]

ps - have a chat with this guy - you're local enough to be useful to each other, and he's no newbie!

you might find it helpful!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Give me a moment to see what else I can find to wind you up about - need to make a cup of tea first.

 

[Geoff T]

Give me a moment to see what else I can find to wind you up about - need to make a cup of tea first.

tea drinker - that explains all!

DAMN - hooked and landed AGAIN!!!:redface:

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

DAMN - hooked and landed AGAIN!!!:redface:

far too easy

 

[Geoff T]

far too easy

(doffs cap)

 

[Geoff T]

ps - that chat option I mentioned might still be useful - have a look when you're not rubbing someone's nose in it!:redface:

 

[Jaydee]

Wow, this thread galloped on while I was away.

So, it appears that all of the contributors in practice disagree with me, but does anybody have any reason to file abbreviated accounts other than that is all that statute requires?

Has anybody ever found that filing full accounts was detrimental to their business?

 

[Geoff T]

Wow, this thread galloped on while I was away.

So, it appears that all of the contributors in practice disagree with me, but does anybody have any reason to file abbreviated accounts other than that is all that statute requires?

Has anybody ever found that filing full accounts was detrimental to their business?

sorry Jaydee - Elaine took me the whole 9yds down to the garden!

In short, I'd say the only reason not to disclose in full is if you're not doing as well as you'd wish, or could be, or if it would otherwise detrimentally affect your credit rating...


(now steps back for the wind up expert!:redface

 

[Bob]

Wow, this thread galloped on while I was away.

So, it appears that all of the contributors in practice disagree with me, but does anybody have any reason to file abbreviated accounts other than that is all that statute requires?

Has anybody ever found that filing full accounts was detrimental to their business?

Keep filing full accounts please. It's always useful to know what last year's accountancy/audit fees were if one is asked to quote on a potential change of adviser

 

[Jaydee]

Keep filing full accounts please. It's always useful to know what last year's accountancy/audit fees were if one is asked to quote on a potential change of adviser

Audit fees, agreed, but accountancy fees are not disclosed in full accounts :|

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Audit fees, agreed, but accountancy fees are not disclosed in full accounts :|

but is there a detailed P&L account???

Exactly the type of info to keep out of public record

 

[David Griffiths]

Keep filing full accounts please. It's always useful to know what last year's accountancy/audit fees were if one is asked to quote on a potential change of adviser

I presume that you always quote slightly above? I usually do!

Audit fees, agreed, but accountancy fees are not disclosed in full accounts :|

I've seen a few filed with the full detailed profit and loss account! You might remember that John Birt, the head of the BBC, was paid via a limited company and his accountant filed the lot. The papers had a field day!

On the general topic of filing full accounts, without exception my clients want to file abbreviated accounts, because they don't want to give away turnover and profit margins.

I can't see that has any adverse impact with lenders, because the lenders will get the full accounts when the loan application goes in.

It might mean factoring companies setting lower credit limits, because the clients don't apply direct to those, but otherwise I don't see why there's a problem, or why anybody would want to file P&L details when they don't have to.

 

[Jaydee]

Looks like I have a really odd practice then...it seem that nobody else files full accounts!

I just checked Companies House records, out of curiosity, and there are:
1,104,254 companies that last filed small abbreviated accounts,
9,483 companies that last filed medium abbreviated,
467,587 companies that last filed full.

So I am indeed in the minority.