Vehicle Lease Return - Novuna

[AndyHarrold]

Hi,
I had a Pickup truck for my business through Novuna. Initially for 3 years , but due to the unavailability of new vehicles they extended it to 4 years. For its return , a company called Manheim inspected the vehicle, and detailed every little thing they could including what the termed poor paintwork from repairs. This poor paintwork basically covered most of the vehicle panels. As I am the only person in my business, I am the only person to have ever used the vehicle, and I know for a fact that the vehicle has not been resprayed or repaired, the only repair I had done was to a rear panel dented in snow/ice conditions by a trailer, this was repaired and repainted by an insurance approved panel shop. They state that you can see poor paint under the surface of the vehicle, with the vehicle being black this is quite obvious. I've done some research into the paintwork on modern vehicles and I've found a term 'Orange Peel' that describes this problem really well. Its to do with more environmentally friendly ingredients being used to manufacture the paint, which makes issues like this compared to better chemically enhanced paints, and this affects all motor manufacturers. The more top end marks will buff and highly polish vehicles to make this less obvious, but manufacturers, like Ford who made my truck just ship them out as is. My new truck has now arrived, Isuzu DMax in Black, and on inspecting it its obvious it has the same 'Orange Peel' paint issues. Ive contacted Novuna to raise this with them, but they rejected it, I also contacted the body who oversees Lease Companies, BVRLA, and after discussing it with Novuna ( found that strange!) They also rejected it. I then had a Debt Collection Agency trying to collect payment, but I advised them I was not willing to pay for the paint issues but would pay for the remaining issues they picked up on, They contacted Novuna who yet again rejected my offer of payment, and have now instructed the Debt Collection Agency to pursue Legal Action.
Has anyone else had similar issues with either Novuna or Manheim, or any other Leasing agency with regards the quality of the paintwork? Are there any Vehicle related paint folk on here who can offer advise, or even provide evidence as an Expert Witness?
As a single person business who doesn't make a great deal of profit this is extremely worrying time for me.
Thanks in advance for any input, help, advice etc!

 

[WaveJumper]

Welcome to the UKBF just to be clear the first pick up is still in dispute and they are chasing for payment on repairs etc and your new vehicle on your inspection by you has the same issues and you are rejecting the vehicle and wish to have it replaced ?

 

[AndyHarrold]

Welcome to the UKBF just to be clear the first pick up is still in dispute and they are chasing for payment on repairs etc and your new vehicle on your inspection by you has the same issues and you are rejecting the vehicle and wish to have it replaced ?

Hi the dispute is on the first vehicle - Ford Ranger, on the supposed poor paintwork.
The new vehicle I have no issues with, but you can see the same effect in the paint 'Orange Peel' on it that Novuna is trying to bill me for as poor paintwork, its just the paint process of new environmentally friendly paints.

 

[IanSuth]

So basically you are saying Mannheim/Novuna are trying to charge you at end of lease for poorly repaired paint which is actually the original state of the paint - which can be evidenced by the fact that another replacement new vehicle from another manufacturer has identical paintwork issues despite being unused.

If you still have the Ford, can you get the insurance paint shop that did the repair before to confirm the work they did and that the rest is original ? Can you get a statement from the company you have used for regular servicing during the 4 years to state they have seen that vehicle over the 4 years and it has had no repair work (other than the rear panel as listed) ? Walk into a Ford showroom with a camera and see if you can find identical issues on a new truck as well, if so record it.

If so I would suggest to Novuna that in light of that evidence (send to them recorded delivery) you are disputing their claim and if they wish to take you to court you will expect them to pay your legal expenses when you are proved correct.

 

[cookiemonster99]

Ex Manheim Vehicle Inspector here - I’ll come back to you later regarding the standard the vehicle should have been inspected to as I need to go out now.

 

[cookiemonster99]

Hi

I was a Manheim Vehicle Inspector for Manheim Inspection Services for several years - going out to the customer and inspecting the vehicles before a driver would take them away.

Every lease company such as Daimler (Mercedes), Arval, RCi (Renault) for example have their own set of inspection standards that the Inspector has to apply when inspecting one of their vehicles. Novena is new and not one of the lease companies that was one of their clients when I was there.

Basically the majority of inspections should be carried out at a standing distance of two metres from the vehicle approx. This means the Inspector needs to walk around the vehicle two metres away and the ‘damage’ needs to be visible at this distance. This DOES NOT mean you stand at two metres ducking and diving bobbing and weaving around trying to spot something in the light for example.

You certainly can not go within two metres and start picking faults.

The reason for the two metre rule is that in the case of repairs for example it keeps things fair. If it has been repaired well you should not be able to spot the repair at such a distance.

The other question is at the end of the inspection you would have been presented with a tablet to sign for the inspection. You either sign to agree with the inspector or the inspector should explain that you can sign to disagree with the findings and in this case it goes back to the lease company for discussion.

If you signed to agree then you don’t have a leg to stand on. If you signed to disagree you should have had the chance to raise your concerns with the lease company.

The inspector should have also provided you with a copy of the inspection standard before commencing and explained this to you without fail - this is a must otherwise they can get into a lot of trouble.

They should have provided you with a print out at the end also - this details the faults and if you agree or disagree. Again this is a requirement and if not they have not done the inspection properly.

The inspectors photographs should be clear and easily visible as they get sent from the tablet to the lease company via Manheim at the end of the inspection.

If something was not spottable at two metres you had to select the option on the software to ‘Report Only’ which meant the inspector has noted it but it is not visible at two metres away therefor you do not get charged.

The problem we had as inspectors was that the vehicles were ‘randomly’ selected to be audited when at the hub site or storage site when collected. The issue was the Team Leaders were all inept and wouldn’t bother moving them out of their rows so ultimately they stood within two metres and spotted more than you would normally and the inspector gets penalised or a warning. Something I argued a lot with them about.

Always sign to disagree and make sure you have a camera set up to film them… they hate that

 

[Mark T Jones]

Hi

I was a Manheim Vehicle Inspector for Manheim Inspection Services for several years - going out to the customer and inspecting the vehicles before a driver would take them away.

Every lease company such as Daimler (Mercedes), Arval, RCi (Renault) for example have their own set of inspection standards that the Inspector has to apply when inspecting one of their vehicles. Novena is new and not one of the lease companies that was one of their clients when I was there.

Basically the majority of inspections should be carried out at a standing distance of two metres from the vehicle approx. This means the Inspector needs to walk around the vehicle two metres away and the ‘damage’ needs to be visible at this distance. This DOES NOT mean you stand at two metres ducking and diving bobbing and weaving around trying to spot something in the light for example.

You certainly can not go within two metres and start picking faults.

The reason for the two metre rule is that in the case of repairs for example it keeps things fair. If it has been repaired well you should not be able to spot the repair at such a distance.

The other question is at the end of the inspection you would have been presented with a tablet to sign for the inspection. You either sign to agree with the inspector or the inspector should explain that you can sign to disagree with the findings and in this case it goes back to the lease company for discussion.

If you signed to agree then you don’t have a leg to stand on. If you signed to disagree you should have had the chance to raise your concerns with the lease company.

The inspector should have also provided you with a copy of the inspection standard before commencing and explained this to you without fail - this is a must otherwise they can get into a lot of trouble.

They should have provided you with a print out at the end also - this details the faults and if you agree or disagree. Again this is a requirement and if not they have not done the inspection properly.

The inspectors photographs should be clear and easily visible as they get sent from the tablet to the lease company via Manheim at the end of the inspection.

If something was not spottable at two metres you had to select the option on the software to ‘Report Only’ which meant the inspector has noted it but it is not visible at two metres away therefor you do not get charged.

The problem we had as inspectors was that the vehicles were ‘randomly’ selected to be audited when at the hub site or storage site when collected. The issue was the Team Leaders were all inept and wouldn’t bother moving them out of their rows so ultimately they stood within two metres and spotted more than you would normally and the inspector gets penalised or a warning. Something I argued a lot with them about.

Always sign to disagree and make sure you have a camera set up to film them… they hate that

Great insight!

Novena is Hitachi rebrabded FYI

 

[cookiemonster99]

Great insight!

Novena is Hitachi rebrabded FYI

So nothing special there regarding the inspection standard. Two metre stand off at all times, within two metres report only…

You are not allowed to advise the customer on what to do but I had good eyes and my average bill was unfortunately about a grand a time - I’d always tell the customer they can disagree with my findings and set the tablet to disagree, and was hated for it. I didn’t take very long to inspect a vehicle as you can either see something wrong or not at two metres. Service history was a big one - especially if you had a vehicle through GMAC (Vauxhall) or MotoNovo. The charges were biblical - the the killer with MotoNovo was that this was vehicle finance not a lease company so the unwitting customer would buy a car from a low rent dealer somewhere and not realise the 100,000 mile car didn’t have full main dealer history so when returning because they cannot afford the loan they would be hit with huge charges for missing service history..

 

[cookiemonster99]

I should point out that there were no incentives for issuing big bills or for finding as much as possible. I’ve seen this this banded around on forums and whilst I cannot speak for other similar inspection companies - Manheim never had any incentives or bonuses for finding things that were not there, pumping the bill up or anything like that. It was all very fair (when done right) on the customer.

They tried to implement a bonus for being accurate and following the procedures to the letter, by accuracy I mean when your vehicles get audited or re inspected at the other end your items of damage need to match what the auditor finds. No more no less

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Hi

I was a Manheim Vehicle Inspector for Manheim Inspection Services for several years - going out to the customer and inspecting the vehicles before a driver would take them away.

Every lease company such as Daimler (Mercedes), Arval, RCi (Renault) for example have their own set of inspection standards that the Inspector has to apply when inspecting one of their vehicles. Novena is new and not one of the lease companies that was one of their clients when I was there.

Basically the majority of inspections should be carried out at a standing distance of two metres from the vehicle approx. This means the Inspector needs to walk around the vehicle two metres away and the ‘damage’ needs to be visible at this distance. This DOES NOT mean you stand at two metres ducking and diving bobbing and weaving around trying to spot something in the light for example.

You certainly can not go within two metres and start picking faults.

The reason for the two metre rule is that in the case of repairs for example it keeps things fair. If it has been repaired well you should not be able to spot the repair at such a distance.

The other question is at the end of the inspection you would have been presented with a tablet to sign for the inspection. You either sign to agree with the inspector or the inspector should explain that you can sign to disagree with the findings and in this case it goes back to the lease company for discussion.

If you signed to agree then you don’t have a leg to stand on. If you signed to disagree you should have had the chance to raise your concerns with the lease company.

The inspector should have also provided you with a copy of the inspection standard before commencing and explained this to you without fail - this is a must otherwise they can get into a lot of trouble.

They should have provided you with a print out at the end also - this details the faults and if you agree or disagree. Again this is a requirement and if not they have not done the inspection properly.

The inspectors photographs should be clear and easily visible as they get sent from the tablet to the lease company via Manheim at the end of the inspection.

If something was not spottable at two metres you had to select the option on the software to ‘Report Only’ which meant the inspector has noted it but it is not visible at two metres away therefor you do not get charged.

The problem we had as inspectors was that the vehicles were ‘randomly’ selected to be audited when at the hub site or storage site when collected. The issue was the Team Leaders were all inept and wouldn’t bother moving them out of their rows so ultimately they stood within two metres and spotted more than you would normally and the inspector gets penalised or a warning. Something I argued a lot with them about.

Always sign to disagree and make sure you have a camera set up to film them… they hate that

Were you a ferocious country court bailiff or a body work inspector? ??

Over the years I have only had one disagreement and we have had loads of vehicles
This orange peel business is highly unusual on vehicles less than five years old and I dont think your seeing it on a new Isuzu

 

[bovine]

had an audi end of lease about 10 years ago which had a v pricy return. It had a repair for a bump and they did pick up the an orange peel effect. The inspector pointed it out and I did agree it wasnt as good as the rest of the car, but I wouldnt have noticed otherwise. If it was like that one yours from new, then it their argument would be that it should have be sorted under warranty by you.

My last lease car went back and I reset the in car nav and phone system, which reset everything. Including the miles/km setting. The person who collected it correctly recorded it as km, but when it went to their returns system, they entered it as miles so I got sent a bill for going over mileage. Took longer than expected to sort that out, despite having had the mot a few days before which recorded the actual mileage.

 

[Daro Gorski]

Hi Andy
Could you tell me please have you managed to sort this out?
They collected my van last week and I have exactly the same problem like yours
They saying I resprayed half of the van , this is the most stupid thing I've ever heard in my life. Orange peel is everywhere even on the roof, that's the way how it is especially for Ford they are brutal for it. Novuna wants to charge me over 1000 pound for it.