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Vegetarian haggis?
- Thread starter Cornish Steve
- Start date
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bdw
I am another who finds it strange that veggies eat meat substitutes in meat shapes. Isn't that just pretending to eat meat and therefore still morally wrong according to their principles? "Let's not eat animal flesh - just something that looks and tastes as close as possible to it please." 
If you want to be a veggie get your own shapes, tastes and textures. We animal eaters don't try to make fillet steak taste like lettuce. Nut cutlets indeed!
Regarding veggie haggis, I have never tried it but it is made by McSweens, a well known haggis maker up here in Jockanesia so it will probably be OK. Personally I think they should consider making a meat feast version without the offal products. That may appeal to more people too.
Note: No haggis were killed or harmed during the writing of this response.
If you want to be a veggie get your own shapes, tastes and textures. We animal eaters don't try to make fillet steak taste like lettuce. Nut cutlets indeed!
Regarding veggie haggis, I have never tried it but it is made by McSweens, a well known haggis maker up here in Jockanesia so it will probably be OK. Personally I think they should consider making a meat feast version without the offal products. That may appeal to more people too.
Note: No haggis were killed or harmed during the writing of this response.
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Officebird
I find the whole veggie debate quite interesting as I used to be one (only for a year or so though!).
Do the veggies here utilise the by products of the animal trade? Leather, milk, cheese, chewing gum, glue etc? The moral excuse is normally that it's ok to wear leather as the animal wasn't killed for the leather, it's just a by product so its not doing any harm. I just don't get this. If you think its wrong to kill an animal for your own use then you should not be utilising the waste from the process!
What about veggies that still eat fish:| I've never understood that.
So how do the vegetarians here justify not being vegans and how do they cope through life making sure they don't use by products? Do they let their children make junk models with glue? Do they let them drink milk from a cow that is forced to have a calf once a year in order to continue to produce milk? The calf, if male, then becomes another by product which is of course the veal trade. Once the milking cow has stopped being useful it is then slaughtered. Surely slaughter is the by product of dairy farming?? So do the veggies here let their children have milk on their cereals?
Just curious as to what the justifications will be
Do the veggies here utilise the by products of the animal trade? Leather, milk, cheese, chewing gum, glue etc? The moral excuse is normally that it's ok to wear leather as the animal wasn't killed for the leather, it's just a by product so its not doing any harm. I just don't get this. If you think its wrong to kill an animal for your own use then you should not be utilising the waste from the process!
What about veggies that still eat fish
:| I've never understood that.So how do the vegetarians here justify not being vegans and how do they cope through life making sure they don't use by products? Do they let their children make junk models with glue? Do they let them drink milk from a cow that is forced to have a calf once a year in order to continue to produce milk? The calf, if male, then becomes another by product which is of course the veal trade. Once the milking cow has stopped being useful it is then slaughtered. Surely slaughter is the by product of dairy farming?? So do the veggies here let their children have milk on their cereals?
Just curious as to what the justifications will be
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casado
Don't go there Sara, you can provoke a very nasty reaction on someone, seriously.
I know of a teenager who has developed a kind of phobia due to these things. He would not buy normal shoes or trainers because the glue issue you mention, he has to have some special ones delivered to them that do not contain glue made from animal products, He would never ever seat down on a chair or sofa that has some leather in it, etc. It has become a real problem for His family and friends for the amount of things He wouldn't do or wouldn't have.
To me that is a mental illness, but you can say that too loud today because you may be put to the stake by the new PC zealots.
To me, the biggest contradictions of all is that they try to save animal lives that would not exist if we didn't eat meat. Who would tender sheep of cows if we didn't eat their meat or drink their milk? So, apparently, is morally more acceptable not the let animals live than to kill them for food, which I don't get it really.
Anyhow, let everyone be happy with their choices.
I know of a teenager who has developed a kind of phobia due to these things. He would not buy normal shoes or trainers because the glue issue you mention, he has to have some special ones delivered to them that do not contain glue made from animal products, He would never ever seat down on a chair or sofa that has some leather in it, etc. It has become a real problem for His family and friends for the amount of things He wouldn't do or wouldn't have.
To me that is a mental illness, but you can say that too loud today because you may be put to the stake by the new PC zealots.
To me, the biggest contradictions of all is that they try to save animal lives that would not exist if we didn't eat meat. Who would tender sheep of cows if we didn't eat their meat or drink their milk? So, apparently, is morally more acceptable not the let animals live than to kill them for food, which I don't get it really.
Anyhow, let everyone be happy with their choices.
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Not going to read all this thread as its probably full of misinformed or borderline offensive non-veggies talking crap, but sausages and Burgers can easily be vegetarian as its the shape and frying style that makes them what they are, not the ingreadients. Not sure about Haggis.
The veggie Haggis is very nice, but vastly overpriced for what it is, as with many 'veggie fake meat' type products, which are more often than not marketed at meat eaters either buying food for veggies or looking for a 'healthier alternative'.
As for the debate which has no doubt started, its likely that all but the richest among us will revert to an almost fully veg diet in the not so distant future, like our ancestors ate a hundred years ago, as the rest of the world 'catchs up' economically and the price of meat (and grazing land) skyrockets. So get used to it.
The veggie Haggis is very nice, but vastly overpriced for what it is, as with many 'veggie fake meat' type products, which are more often than not marketed at meat eaters either buying food for veggies or looking for a 'healthier alternative'.
As for the debate which has no doubt started, its likely that all but the richest among us will revert to an almost fully veg diet in the not so distant future, like our ancestors ate a hundred years ago, as the rest of the world 'catchs up' economically and the price of meat (and grazing land) skyrockets. So get used to it.
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casado
You assume too many things, like
"Not going to read all this thread as its probably full of misinformed or borderline offensive non-veggies talking crap"
Thats the thing about the people who BELIEVE, that they do not need to read or listen to what other people have to say to KNOW. You already know better.
I didn't know there was a shortage of food, at least in Europe. I thought the problem was just the opposite, people overeating and overdrinking.
By the way, without sheep and cows you would find it harder to feed your vegetables. Not to mention that if someone doesn't hunt rabbits these will eat some of the crops destined to make such delicious breakfast cereals.
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Of course I know better. As a long time Veggie, I've heard all the ridiculous crap ( People saying 'why do we eat meat shaped burgers/sausages' is possibly my favourite. Think about it...) that Omnivores come out with. Theres no doubt that those of us that have these conversations daily know better, just as you'd expect someone that was a doctor to 'know better' about the human body..
In reply to your other points. Yes, we have a food shortage worldwide. Partly because we - and primarily the World bank/IMF - have told developing countries they must stop growing bananas to feed themselves on and switch to production of herbs (or coffee beans, or whatever) for the export market, partly because the world as a whole is getting wealthier and more demanding - the level of meat in the chinese diet has gone up massively, for example. Food supply in Europe does not end at the borders of the E.U, if it did we'd certainly know about it.
I don't really understand your points about the animals - I would have thought that if they provided a service, they would continue to be reared (similar to how many Americans rear goats to provide a scrub clearing service) or survive themselves (as foxes and squirrels do). What shooting rabbits has to do with anything I don't know.
If you don't like vegetables, then you don't eat them. Not sure I understand the point there, either.
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Officebird
lol I'm not trying to provoke a nasty reaction, I'm genuinely interested. These are the questions that made me re evaluate my choice to be a veggie. Not the main reason I went back to meat, but certainly part of the reason/ I would genuinely like to know how people justify these issues in their everyday lives.
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casado
Please, let me doubt your expertise on what I think or on what I said once you admit that you haven't read the thread. To me you are just another believer and that gives you no authority on any subject except for yourself.
What I do not understand is what the coffee and banana trade has to do with eating meat of the food shortage. So, according to you if we were eating rabbits instead of bananas there would be less of a food shortage than the one you claim there is.
As for you assumption that I don't like vegetables, is just another of your creeds, not anything related to facts, and another prove that you don't read and base your assumed (by you) expertise in very shallow assumptions.
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casado
lol I'm not trying to provoke a nasty reaction, I'm genuinely interested. These are the questions that made me re evaluate my choice to be a veggie. Not the main reason I went back to meat, but certainly part of the reason/ I would genuinely like to know how people justify these issues in their everyday lives.
I wound't worry too much about it.
There are always people, as there always have been and will be, who need to find a way to feel better, deserver more, than the others based on their "feelings" or alleged feelings towards certain issues. This is the guilt/salvation schema of the Judeo/Christian philosophy. There are always something of which we are guilty of, so, not deserving. Only the pure, and the ones who know this and can correct themselves, can become moral, pure, deserving, etc.
So, imagine that from tomorrow we all become vegetarians, then these people couldn't not be showing off their moral superiority, and they will need to come up with something else, normally cheap, to go on being better than the rest.
That is why the "issues" never end. If you are a loving, caring person, you will always need something to love and care about.
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skyhi2
" I dont like vegetables ",the point being ?,so what,who the hell cares ?
Every single discussion i have ever come across has always descended in to two distinct camps.And every time the same thing happens,it either gets locked,or,the mods step in somewhere along the way to " settle " things down.
" Veggies " defend themselves very well,as they are used to all the " crap " the " Carnies " give em.
Carnies,in general,just like to bait the veggies,you know the kinda thing, " how can you survive on a turnip,celery stick,and a bag of nuts a day ".
Just my 2 cents.
Skyhi2.
Every single discussion i have ever come across has always descended in to two distinct camps.And every time the same thing happens,it either gets locked,or,the mods step in somewhere along the way to " settle " things down.
" Veggies " defend themselves very well,as they are used to all the " crap " the " Carnies " give em.
Carnies,in general,just like to bait the veggies,you know the kinda thing, " how can you survive on a turnip,celery stick,and a bag of nuts a day ".
Just my 2 cents.
Skyhi2.
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My expertise is in being a vegetarian. Which as I am, there is no doubt in this matter. I am constantly told the same things by meat eaters, therefore I imagine I can summarise this thread without reading it. If you are an Omnivore, and have been since youth, you are by definition an expert in the mater, no?
There is very little link between the coffee and banana trade and not eating meat. I offered anexplanation for food shortages, as it is plainly clear that had I not you would have picked me up on this. Eating meat is not the sole reason for food shortages, the globalised economy and the desire to export your product all over the world does this, and the Bretton Woods twins have been chief in converting economies to exports.
If we were eating rabbits constantly, yes, this would probably improve the food shortages - but I am not aware of how it compares in terms of land used, feed used, time etc. Certainly the biggy in terms of wastage is meat from a cow, which has gone through a massive amount of resources only to offer a small meal.
So, to summarise, and I'd rather not have to make the point again, there are two major reasons for the current food shortages.
i) Insistance by world bodies on promoting the export of food and the traditional mantra of 'everyone should grow what they are best at and trade' above everybody having easy access to local food (Cuba is the best example of an alternative, as are food co-ops in the UK).
ii) Over-eating of meat, which requires much more resources (such as grain to feed the animals, grazing land) to produce a similar amount to the alternative in vegetables or crop.
There are also other factors - Mexico and their joining of NAFTA threw up an interesting case for example, but I won't go into them. Those of you that are interested should read a book called 'stuffed and starved' by Raj Patel, which is probably the most accesible reasonabley academic review of the world food systems problems currently.
I am quite happy to admit there is an element of guilt behind my decision to be veggie. but when I visit or read about a country like Jamaica ( around 98% food imports) or China (were people have been displaced for new meat production facilities), quite frankly I feel it's damn worth it.
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casado
Okay, do as you please. You do not need to read us, I don't need to read you, so I skip the rest.
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- Original Poster
- #64
One increasingly important reason for a food shortage is the environmentalists' demand that we use biofuels instead of oil for vehicles. This is flabbergastingly short-sighted. Farmers in the US and elsewhere, who produce massive amounts of grain, are selling crops for the production of alcohol additives to petrol - because of governments that pay handsome subsidies for doing this.
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Officebird
I find the whole veggie debate quite interesting as I used to be one (only for a year or so though!).
Do the veggies here utilise the by products of the animal trade? Leather, milk, cheese, chewing gum, glue etc? The moral excuse is normally that it's ok to wear leather as the animal wasn't killed for the leather, it's just a by product so its not doing any harm. I just don't get this. If you think its wrong to kill an animal for your own use then you should not be utilising the waste from the process!
What about veggies that still eat fish
So how do the vegetarians here justify not being vegans and how do they cope through life making sure they don't use by products? Do they let their children make junk models with glue? Do they let them drink milk from a cow that is forced to have a calf once a year in order to continue to produce milk? The calf, if male, then becomes another by product which is of course the veal trade. Once the milking cow has stopped being useful it is then slaughtered. Surely slaughter is the by product of dairy farming?? So do the veggies here let their children have milk on their cereals?
Just curious as to what the justifications will be
Funny how noone has been able to answer this yet:|
As for the food shortage, yes there is one. As for the future? Yes climate change will have a dramatic impact on the production of food, and experts agree that the UK will face either war like rationing on meat, or a predominantly vegetarian diet. The UK is lucky as it is something like 75% self sufficient as far as food production goes, but not all countries are as fortunate.
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As a person from the 3rd World farmer of 40 odd years standing - we were never told to stop producing our food in preference for cash crops. We produced a cash crop side by side with our food. Most times that was a food crop anyway.
The biggest reason for the food shortage is the rampant population explosion brought on by better health facilities, lower infant mortality and the burgeoning urban population that cannot grow its own food.
Blame the human society as a whole rather than a single entity.
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When we left in 2004.
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400 in maize (staple African diet)
200 in Soya bean
200 in Wheat
Balance mixed in cattle and Safari hunting.
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casado
If they agree is because they have to, otherwise they are sacked like Prof Nutt, who was appointed to give his expert opinion as long as his opinion agreed with that of the government.
Listen, in the European Union has been subsidizing farmers in the South of Europe to persuade them to abandon cultivation. Thousand of squared kilometers or arable land that had been cultivated for centuries had not been cultivated for the last 15 or so years, and the experts say we are facing a possible food shortage? Thinking of which, it may not be too bad given the problem with so many people being overweight, and mainly not from eating meat but from eating snacks made of potatoes, corn, etc.
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If meat eaters want to eat meat, then do so.
If 'us' veggies choose not to want to, but sometimes eat something that resemebles a sausage - what the hell! We are not asking for you to understand - to be honest I am not sure I understand why myself.
Perhaps the answer is they 'just taste good'!
What I eat, or do not eat, does not effect you - and likewise!
Myself I could not surive on turnip, celery stick and bag of nuts
- wish I could! I would be far better off 'money' wise'!At the end of the day its down to choice (just as smoking and drinking is).
Off for my lentil bean burger
Poppy
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