Use Classes

[Northstar100]

Hello all, I'm currently running my wedding photography business from home but have seen a shop which I think would be suitable for a photography studio. Now at the moment it's classed as A1 but does anybody know what class a photography studio would fall into? From what I've read on the net some say A1 and others Sui Generis. Thanks for any advice.

 

[TotallySport]

Is a shop what you really need, the costs involved are massive, not just rent, but rates, utilities, security, phone, staffing, refuse collection, internet, insurance etc etc.

Every photographer in our area, that has opened a shop has closed it within 6 months, which is a shame, becuase I would have like my daughter to do work experience in one .

Much better to rent a studio on short term basis and keep costs down IMO

 

[David1962]

Is a shop what you really need, the costs involved are massive, not just rent, but rates, utilities, security, phone, staffing, refuse collection, internet, insurance etc etc.

Every photographer in our area, that has opened a shop has closed it within 6 months, which is a shame, becuase I would have like my daughter to do work experience in one .

Much better to rent a studio on short term basis and keep costs down IMO

Agree with the above, look at industrial units if you really must have a base. Add on to the costs above staff as obviously you are going to be out a lot taking the photographs. Very ball park figure for a shop, with one staff, is going to be at least £40k per annum.

 

[kelvin1950]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/changeofuse/

It'll be A1 or B1 depending on how the council view what you're actually using it for. I.E. are you selling albums, picture frames? In which case it may be classed as a shop.

Talk to your local planning office.

 

[Northstar100]

Thanks for the advice folks, I'm about to ring the council soon. The reason I want a shop and not a studio on an industrial estate is that I want passing trade. The location of this shop is ideal with the neighbours including bridal shops, wedding ring jewellers, childrens clothes shops etc.

 

[TotallySport]

And how many times have you been walking down the street and though I know I need to pop into the photographers, please at least do some market research before going into it, or even stand outside a max spielmann to see how many people go into get their picture taken.

Do you see any builders, plumbers, or sparkies with retail shops?

 

[Northstar100]

My question was about business use classes and nothing else, I didn't ask, nor want advice, about should I or should I not open a shop, thank you.

 

[fairdealworld]

My question was about business use classes and nothing else, I didn't ask, nor want advice, about should I or should I not open a shop, thank you.

I so agree with you Northstar100. These forums contain some very useful advice but I feel they are being ruined (like other forums I can think of) by a proportion of very dogmatic posters who have a 'message' they want to promote (often with good intentions but with a great lack of tact) and who respond with their message instead of responding to the question.

I've experienced this after starting a thread myself recently. I was asking a very specific question. If no one could answer that question, no problem it was worth a try, I wasn't looking for general business advice or certainly not on that thread.

 

[Lunazzurra]

You should be absolutely fine with the A1 Class for your photographic business but best check with your local authority just in case there are any caveats. As far as I understand it, most non-catering business would be covered under Class A1 or 2 and I don't think you'll have a problem. Also if Class A1 is covered it is probably covered for A2 as well.

Found a couple of links which might be helpful. The second one gives the planning definition of Sui Generis which I think you can probably safely forget.

http://www.startinbusiness.co.uk/in...k/property/planning_use_classes_order1987.htm

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/changeofuse/

Contrary to the negative thoughts expressed by others here, the shop sounds ideally placed especially if you can tie in with the other shops you mentioned and draw up a wedding package between you as I'm guessing is probably part of your plan for wanting the shop where it is.

If you're already in business then I, for one, will give you the due respect and credit for knowing what the pro's and con's are going to be.

Could be a real money spinner and I wish you every success.

 

[David1962]

My question was about business use classes and nothing else, I didn't ask, nor want advice, about should I or should I not open a shop, thank you.

Well in that case simply phone your county council and get the correct answer in a matter of minutes. Ask here and get more advice and suggestions that obviously hadn't even occurred to you yet.

 

[Northstar100]

Thanks for the advice and word of encouragement fairdealworld and Lunazzurra. I'm now waiting for the council planning dept to ring me back with a definite answer, it seems it's not that straight forward a question.

 

[TotallySport]

I so agree with you Northstar100. These forums contain some very useful advice but I feel they are being ruined (like other forums I can think of) by a proportion of very dogmatic posters who have a 'message' they want to promote (often with good intentions but with a great lack of tact) and who respond with their message instead of responding to the question.

I've experienced this after starting a thread myself recently. I was asking a very specific question. If no one could answer that question, no problem it was worth a try, I wasn't looking for general business advice or certainly not on that thread.

This is public forum, part of getting information and advice being offered information outside what you have asked.

I was hoping the OP should would say something like I have done the market research, it has come back showing there is a need in the area, instead of assuming, because there is a bridal wear shop, a jewellers and a clothes shop, means people will be look for a photographer.

Throwing a dummy out when they don't hear what they want, isn't an advantage.

Anyway I do hope the shop goes well.

 

[mhall]

My two 'pennorth - You don't klnow what you don't know. The question was specifically about planning - If you need a forum to advise you to .... ask the planning department (bearing in mind that that had NOT been done) then I feel sure that there may be other things the OP had not thought about. I think the other advice given was out of a genuine concern and desire to help. If s/he didn't want or need that advice s/he was free to ignore it. No need to attack IMHO

 

[TotallySport]

I have a thought, again off topic (Sorry)

Have you thought about a Studio Van? You could kit out a Luton Van with a studio in the back, if someone wants a family shot in a studio take the Van to their home, if they want a family shot in the park, take the Van, none of the same ties a Shop has, it will also have some of the footfall as it will have a big advert on the side.

 

[PrestonLad]

I so agree with you Northstar100. These forums contain some very useful advice but I feel they are being ruined (like other forums I can think of) by a proportion of very dogmatic posters who have a 'message' they want to promote (often with good intentions but with a great lack of tact) and who respond with their message instead of responding to the question.

I've experienced this after starting a thread myself recently. I was asking a very specific question. If no one could answer that question, no problem it was worth a try, I wasn't looking for general business advice or certainly not on that thread.

Off -topic (which I presume is OK, as the question is just about answered)... but I have some sympathies with your view fairdealworld - and somewhere, it's worthy of discussion.

I think it's a matter of degree though, and I don't think Totallysport overstepped the mark - but offered fair, supplementary advice, which as others have said, has the potential to be useful - and didn't deserved the somewhat blunt rebuttal from the OP.

Having said that, I share your frustration and also get annoyed when people who seem to like the sound of their own (written) voice come in and de-rail threads by being "clever" with their agendas (as you put it). If you had a bad one of these last week (as you imply), maybe you're feeling a bit sensitive... but I think this one was fine. It might get sterile if we only ever answer direct questions with direct answers.

The ones that wind me up most are those where an OP writes in a stressed situation - perhaps needing advice after acknowledging that they signed a contract they shouldn't have - but then some people take pleasure in advising them that they were stupid to get themselves in that situation.

 

[Northstar100]

Well I don't think I spat my dummy out, I think I was extremely polite and even thanked the first two posters for the advice, even though I didn't ask for it.

Anyway, this thread seems to have gone completely off track now which is a shame but I do have an answer to my original question. The council's planning dept rang me back and told me that a photo studio would be classed as Sui Generis so I'd have to apply for a change of use on the shop. I'd have to make an appointment with the duty planning officer to see what they say and of course see how the landlord feels about this. I've got alot to think about over weekend.

TotallySport, that idea is quite novel, there was a programme on BBC2 recently, Alex Polizzi - The Fixer, where they helped a struggling studio. One of the things they had them doing was to set up a gazeebo in a local park and try to get parents to bring their kids in have their photos taken. But I suppose you'd need permission for that too, nothings ever easy these days!

 

[Lunazzurra]

Anyway, this thread seems to have gone completely off track now which is a shame but I do have an answer to my original question. The council's planning dept rang me back and told me that a photo studio would be classed as Sui Generis so I'd have to apply for a change of use on the shop.

Sorry Northstar100, I stand corrected on the Sui Generis point. I hope it goes your way and without too much delay or hassle. Post again to let us know how it goes!

 

[Northstar100]

Sorry Northstar100, I stand corrected on the Sui Generis point. I hope it goes your way and without too much delay or hassle. Post again to let us know how it goes!

No problem mate, I have a feeling that all council's class these things differently so it's not an easy one to know.

 

[TotallySport]

Well I don't think I spat my dummy out, I think I was extremely polite and even thanked the first two posters for the advice, even though I didn't ask for it.

Anyway, this thread seems to have gone completely off track now which is a shame but I do have an answer to my original question. The council's planning dept rang me back and told me that a photo studio would be classed as Sui Generis so I'd have to apply for a change of use on the shop. I'd have to make an appointment with the duty planning officer to see what they say and of course see how the landlord feels about this. I've got alot to think about over weekend.

TotallySport, that idea is quite novel, there was a programme on BBC2 recently, Alex Polizzi - The Fixer, where they helped a struggling studio. One of the things they had them doing was to set up a gazeebo in a local park and try to get parents to bring their kids in have their photos taken. But I suppose you'd need permission for that too, nothings ever easy these days!

You seem to think going off topic is a bad thing and its not, it costs nothing to discuss things, and you never know it might benefit you.

I was going to ask, "After watching The Fixer, did they actually need the studio? " but after thinking about it I won',t I will go an see if its on IPlayer.

The gazibo in the park is a bit like my Van Idea

 

[Nord20]

By posting in a public forum, you are starting a conversation. If people give slightly off-topic, but well meaning advise, I'd either ignore it or comment on it. Obviously, if they are rude or not-so-well-meaning, that's a different story.

Asking a group of people what they think, for free, and getting arsey when someone gives you their opinion, is really quite rude, IMHO (of course). People don't get anything from contributing on here, other than the satisfaction of trying to help someone out and an opportunity to think about a business problem. Bashing them for straying slightly off-topic is pretty childish.

 

[Northstar100]

By posting in a public forum, you are starting a conversation. If people give slightly off-topic, but well meaning advise, I'd either ignore it or comment on it. Obviously, if they are rude or not-so-well-meaning, that's a different story.

Asking a group of people what they think, for free, and getting arsey when someone gives you their opinion, is really quite rude, IMHO (of course). People don't get anything from contributing on here, other than the satisfaction of trying to help someone out and an opportunity to think about a business problem. Bashing them for straying slightly off-topic is pretty childish.

Nerd20, if you actually read this thread you'd see it didn't go slightly off topic, as you put it. It was completely off topic and nothing to do with the question I asked. You'd also see I didn't get arsey, I wrote a very polite response asking people to refrain from giving me that advice. The thread had actually got back on track days ago until your post, so thanks for that, very much appreciated. Have you anything useful to say about use classes?

 

[Nord20]

Er, QED?

Aside from deliberately mispelling my name (childish, no?), I'm clearly not alone in thinking you were more than a little harsh to some responders who were only trying to offer their thoughts.

Your first instinct was, after all, to attack me.

I did have some thoughts on your proposal, but obviously I'm not going to share them now and I shouldn't imagine you'd want to hear them anyway.

Here ends my involved, sorry to all for bringing down the tone, I thought an interesting point of forum etiquette had been raised.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Northstar100]

You have to take all internet forums with a pinch of salt, I know I do. If I caused offence to you Nord, I apologise and I appreciate your best wishes.

 

[TotallySport]

Don't know if your interested but:

http://www.peachlanestudios.co.uk/meet-the-team/

If nothing else, it shows they didn't benefit from a shop, if they did they would have got another one, instead of an out of the way studio.

Might be worth ringing them and asking for advice, can't hurt anyway.

 

[Nord20]

Just for balance, there's a shop in Guildford (quite an expensive part) that appears to be thriving after three years in operation:

http://www.limelightportraits.co.uk/

I have no doubt if you know what you are doing and have a splash of luck (as always) you can make a success of a well placed shop.

 

[Northstar100]

Morning TotallySport, Andrea who runs that studio is member of a photography forum that I frequent. As the programme was being aired, she told her story and it was quite interesting how the producers changed some quite important details to make for good tele. The studio they are in now is still a shop and in quite an affluent area. I think the shopping centre location they originally had would be a poor choice for any decent photographer selling a quality product, unless they wanted to go down the snappy snaps, cheap as chips route.

Nord, there are many many examples of shop that are thriving as studios and this is what is spurring me on.

 

[gr9ce]

Also make sure your LPA Is using the latest change of use criteria introduced 30 May.
Re other advice whilst not asked for we do get many arriving here in the flush of excitement but sometimes looking outside the box can still be helpful. How long might a lease be and what happens if the other stores you hope will drive traffic close? Do you know how long their leases are?
Many in this climate would love a business run from home rather than maintain a shop presence 6 or 7 days a week.

Love the idea of'come in the back of my van for some photos'

A van would work at fairs and events especially themed photos to catch impulse sales (as one with a Florida civil war pic as proof!)

Good luck

 

[TotallySport]

Also make sure your LPA Is using the latest change of use criteria introduced 30 May.
Re other advice whilst not asked for we do get many arriving here in the flush of excitement but sometimes looking outside the box can still be helpful. How long might a lease be and what happens if the other stores you hope will drive traffic close? Do you know how long their leases are?
Many in this climate would love a business run from home rather than maintain a shop presence 6 or 7 days a week.

Love the idea of'come in the back of my van for some photos'

A van would work at fairs and events especially themed photos to catch impulse sales (as one with a Florida civil war pic as proof!)

Good luck

When I couched football, there was a photographer who didn't have a studio in his Van but had a full photo printing setup in one, he went round all the club tournaments in the summer, took loads of images of the kids playing, then pinned different ones to a board every two hours or so,and took a fair amount selling prints there and then.