Urgent help regarding design & print! please help

[OliverLuke]

Hi everyone,
I could really do with some advice.
I started a design & print business a couple of months ago, since then I have had one main client come in which is a popular local restaraunt.
I created their Menu's.

3 weeks pass and the manager called me saying customers are having problems reading them because of the colour clash. I said that he approved the design and he is saying the final print looks different to the final proof (the colours are stronger)

So, he is my first main client and I want to make a good impression but I cannot afford to pay out of my own money to have the menu's re-printed which will leave me loosing money.

What should I do?

Thankyou

 

[OldWelshGuy]

if the final print is different to the final proof, then you have little option other than to replace them.

 

[OliverLuke]

They are not different, they are exactly the same. the design must look different when the manager printed it of on his home computer compared to the professional printing

 

[Esk247]

They are not different, they are exactly the same. the design must look different when the manager printed it of on his home computer compared to the professional printing

So he printed the proof out himself?

That isn't a proof from what I understand. I always thought a proof was one print copy of the actual final design, colours and layout on the actual paper it would be printed on.

How much are we talking here, if you have to go for a reprint yourself?

 

[OliverLuke]

He proofed the design and then I sent for print. I out-source my printing.

It may not sound much but for the re-print it would cost me £100. which is alot when you are 20 living of a small business.

Thanks

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Oh heck, never ever allow a client to print a proof (lesson learned) Screens, printers etc all appear differently, you really needed a proper print quality proof to cover your backside. I am real sorry to see you in this position, but it is a position many have found themselves in.

 

[OliverLuke]

Oh heck, never ever allow a client to print a proof (lesson learned) Screens, printers etc all appear differently, you really needed a proper print quality proof to cover your backside. I am real sorry to see you in this position, but it is a position many have found themselves in.

Thanks, Lesson learned.

What do you suggest I do, bite the bullet and loose money and get new printing? or respectfully argue that they approved and if they want re-printing, I will require £100?

 

[Deleted member 130387]

A disappointed customer will communicate his problem ten times more than a happy one.
You learnt a valuable lesson!!! Replace the menus and next time you provide the proof to the customer and have the approval in written form on the proof itself.
We are in the business of printing on wetwipes (sachets) and we found out the hard way also!!!

Customers are hard to come by and you have to keep them!!! Customer retention is always cheaper and more profitable than new customer acquisition.

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Thanks, Lesson learned.

What do you suggest I do, bite the bullet and loose money and get new printing? or respectfully argue that they approved and if they want re-printing, I will require £100?

Did you provide the correct proof? i mean a professionally printed one, or you just emailed it?

If you provided a professional one then you both are at fault!!! You split the cost. If you did not then you will have to take the loss.

 

[OliverLuke]

Thankyou for the advice, I agree with you.

It is just a bit of a nightmare having to pay the £100 out especially at the moment, it will leave me in the red.

 

[OliverLuke]

Did you provide the correct proof? i mean a professionally printed one, or you just emailed it?

If you provided a professional one then you both are at fault!!! You split the cost. If you did not then you will have to take the loss.

Because I out-source my printing it is hard to get 1 copy. so it was email
Thanks

 

[Esk247]

Thankyou for the advice, I agree with you.

It is just a bit of a nightmare having to pay the £100 out especially at the moment, it will leave me in the red.

how long until you can afford it? you can possibly push it back to next week or the week after if you include the time for printing a proof and getting it approved this time.

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Thankyou for the advice, I agree with you.

It is just a bit of a nightmare having to pay the £100 out especially at the moment, it will leave me in the red.

Consider this an expensive business lesson from real life!!!!!

 

[S-Marketing]

If you can come up with a really good logo design based around the name 'Stretchy Marketing', and do a couple of quick designs, ill give you the 100 quid you need.

 

[chalkie99]

At £100 consider it a cheap lesson as it could have been far worse.

I am afraid this is a classic case of setting yourself up as a designer when you don't actually understand what is involved.

You are offering a service where your customer will rightly expect you to have professional knowledge and it's up to you to be aware of problems which are likely to arise.

I seriously suggest you invest in getting some training in colour management so that you can understand some of the issues you will come up against in the future - including, for example, colour variances according to the type of inks used, the actual media it is printed on, the type of light source under which it is viewed and, in this case, the fact that the customers monitor will render colours differently than yours and his desktop printer will print differently than yours, which in turn, will also be different to your suppliers.

Just as a matter of interest, did you study design at uni/college?

 

[OliverLuke]

At £100 consider it a cheap lesson as it could have been far worse.

I am afraid this is a classic case of setting yourself up as a designer when you don't actually understand what is involved.

You are offering a service where your customer will rightly expect you to have professional knowledge and it's up to you to be aware of problems which are likely to arise.

I seriously suggest you invest in getting some training in colour management so that you can understand some of the issues you will come up against in the future - including, for example, colour variances according to the type of inks used, the actual media it is printed on, the type of light source under which it is viewed and, in this case, the fact that the customers monitor will render colours differently than yours and his desktop printer will print differently than yours, which in turn, will also be different to your suppliers.

Just as a matter of interest, did you study design at uni/college?

Well I have 2 experienced graphic designer's who work for me and a printing company that sorts the printing out. I basically run the business, take care of sales, marketing and generally run everything.

It is a mistake, and a huge lesson learnt. This is a valued client with great potential for work, so I will have to just bite the bullet. I have pm'd you about the designs.

Thankyou

 

[chalkie99]

Well I have 2 experienced graphic designer's who work for me and a printing company that sorts the printing out. I basically run the business, take care of sales, marketing and generally run everything.

Then the graphic designers aren't doing their jobs, though how you can have "2 experienced graphic designers working for you" and yet not be able to afford £100 raises it's own questions.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Well I have 2 experienced graphic designer's who work for me and a printing company that sorts the printing out. I basically run the business, take care of sales, marketing and generally run everything.

It is a mistake, and a huge lesson learnt. This is a valued client with great potential for work, so I will have to just bite the bullet. I have pm'd you about the designs.

Thankyou

A final quality Pantone proof should cost no more than £10, consider going down that route in future

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Well I have 2 experienced graphic designer's who work for me and a printing company that sorts the printing out. I basically run the business, take care of sales, marketing and generally run everything.

Thankyou

Experienced graphic designers and experienced printers should know better. No way you email the proof to the customers. I suggest researching into depth the essentials of designing and printing business.

 

[S-Marketing]

Well I have 2 experienced graphic designer's who work for me and a printing company that sorts the printing out. I basically run the business, take care of sales, marketing and generally run everything.

It is a mistake, and a huge lesson learnt. This is a valued client with great potential for work, so I will have to just bite the bullet. I have pm'd you about the designs.

Thankyou

Sorry, I got the impression that you were a startup working on your own trying to get your first few clients. I thought that offering £100 for a couple of bits would get you out of a hole and get me a new logo design. If you have staff to pay then I think you may be in a bit of trouble if you need to worry about the odd 100 quid here and there.

 

[Chris Fickling Design]

It's not about the proofing or the printing. It's about creating a design that even has the possibility to clash.

When things do go wrong however it is about communication and experience. Speak to your 'designers' and get them to give you a £50 credit note. Speak to your printer nicely and get them to give you a £50 credit note. Offer your client a £100 credit note against the next job and hope you get a bigger job next time. But you will end up in the mire every time if you don't clarify your production methods and the variances that can occur even within one print run.

And remember - screen proofs, desktop printer proofs are no good for colour, just concept and content - you need to make that clear to your clients. Even proofs that are pantone calibrated are unlikely to be on the same stock as the finished article and so will vary in colour. Laminating will change the colour and so will ambient light.

 

[OliverLuke]

Sorry, I got the impression that you were a startup working on your own trying to get your first few clients. I thought that offering £100 for a couple of bits would get you out of a hole and get me a new logo design. If you have staff to pay then I think you may be in a bit of trouble if you need to worry about the odd 100 quid here and there.

Sorry let me re-phrase that, they are not my employee's but I source my design work to them. My current outgoings are £76 a month

Thanks!

 

[S-Marketing]

Sorry let me re-phrase that, they are not my employee's but I source my design work to them. My current outgoings are £76 a month

Thanks!

That's my point. I thought you were the one who would do the design, so my giving you 100 quid to do a design would have got you out of the situation we are talking about. If you sub it out, you will end up giving most of the money I pay to the designer, leaving you in exactly the same position.

 

[OliverLuke]

That's my point. I thought you were the one who would do the design, so my giving you 100 quid to do a design would have got you out of the situation we are talking about. If you sub it out, you will end up giving most of the money I pay to the designer, leaving you in exactly the same position.

I do basic design, I studied IT and Media design and marketing at college but I would not class myself as a graphic designer but more than capable for simple designs.
I appreciate you trying to help me though! Thankyou

 

[Dan@Printwell]

Sorry let me re-phrase that, they are not my employee's but I source my design work to them. My current outgoings are £76 a month

Thanks!

You are what I call a print "farmer" or "broker", you find the clients and manage their print finding the best possible price so they don't have to and take a small % for your trouble.

The important thing here is you do learn from this, I am in full agreement with Ibrow media on this. You should avoid designs that clash and if you do think you may have a troublesome job on your hands, then offer your client a physical proof (wet proof) at a cost, your printer should do this for you.

Proofing is very important in this trade and you have learnt this lesson cheap at £100.

Best of luck in the future.

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Why not replace your two designers and current printer with an all inclusive agency. Get the customers and outsource the whole project to one company. Make sure they are pros and know more about the technical matters than you.
Plenty of possible business partners in UKBF. I am sure you will be better off. Concentrate on what you do best. And from your posts I suspect you are better at selling.
Nothing wrong with being a designer-printer broker.

 

[Dan@Printwell]

Nothing wrong with being a designer-printer broker.

Nothing wrong at all, you can make a good living if you do it well.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

If your 'one main client' is worth £100 then I suggest that you chalk it up to experience and move on with generating more sales. Getting a decent sized project should bring you back out of the red faster than you went in.

 

[Preemo]

I'd suggest paying the money to have them re-printed, then in future having the 'proof' as an actual professional copy, just so the customer's have no right to argue. It's a shame to see you in a tight situation like this, but I'm sure if you offer for them to be re-printed, he'll be a very happy customer indeed. And happy customers lead to more happy customers

I know you'll be really low on cash at the moment, but it'll become worth it soon

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Nothing wrong at all, you can make a good living if you do it well.

We are able to print on bopp with no m.o.q and we have lots of sales agents selling our products. They are clueless about the technology but grasped the concept of individual printing on WetWipes and they make very good money.

 

[KreativeJuice]

Why not replace your two designers and current printer with an all inclusive agency. Get the customers and outsource the whole project to one company. Make sure they are pros and know more about the technical matters than you.
Plenty of possible business partners in UKBF. I am sure you will be better off. Concentrate on what you do best. And from your posts I suspect you are better at selling.
Nothing wrong with being a designer-printer broker.

Good advice - its difficult to offer a professional service when you have limited experience or when you are outsourcing to design sweatshops.

Id be happy to talk to you regarding you acting as a broker on our behalf...although you will need to readjust your fees to a more realistic non-bargain basement level.

Kind regards
Karen

 

[OliverLuke]

Hi Everyone,

I am in a rush so I will keep the short, and reply to questions etc. when I get a chance.

I went for a meeting before and it went well. I offered to have them re-printed but they insisted they will help pay.
They also told me what else they need doing in the next couple of months.
Could not ask for a better result, Happy clients with more work and a simple fix.
I find out for sure what the situation is tomorrow.

Thanks everybody!

 

[Deleted member 130387]

Hi Everyone,

I am in a rush so I will keep the short, and reply to questions etc. when I get a chance.

I went for a meeting before and it went well. I offered to have them re-printed but they insisted they will help pay.
They also told me what else they need doing in the next couple of months.
Could not ask for a better result, Happy clients with more work and a simple fix.
I find out for sure what the situation is tomorrow.

Thanks everybody!

Very well! Hopefully it will turn out to be fixed. Everybody happy!! And you will be wiser!!

 

[matth]

Proofing is very important in this trade and you have learnt this lesson cheap at £100.

This.

I used to work for a firm that did design in house and outsourced printing - I used to deal with the printers & designers, so I guess I was a broker in some respects.

Secured a 4k order for various items, included costs for wet proofing into the final cost to the client (probably £100 at the most cost to us), my boss decided to maximise profits and not bother with the proofs.

It cost us all of the profit and more to rectify the job when the customer wasn't happy with the final output... He tried to blame me, until I pulled out all the emails I'd sent regarding the proofs - funnily, it all went quiet from then on.

Moral of the story: A proper proof can save you a lot of money in the long run.

 

[Preemo]

Hi Everyone,

I am in a rush so I will keep the short, and reply to questions etc. when I get a chance.

I went for a meeting before and it went well. I offered to have them re-printed but they insisted they will help pay.
They also told me what else they need doing in the next couple of months.
Could not ask for a better result, Happy clients with more work and a simple fix.
I find out for sure what the situation is tomorrow.

Thanks everybody!

That's brilliant news! The good thing is, if you expect the worse in that situation (you paying the full £100), you get a really good surprise when things like this happen!

More work as well, must be a really happy customer!

All the best

 

[Dan@Printwell]

This.

I used to work for a firm that did design in house and outsourced printing - I used to deal with the printers & designers, so I guess I was a broker in some respects.

Secured a 4k order for various items, included costs for wet proofing into the final cost to the client (probably £100 at the most cost to us), my boss decided to maximise profits and not bother with the proofs.

It cost us all of the profit and more to rectify the job when the customer wasn't happy with the final output... He tried to blame me, until I pulled out all the emails I'd sent regarding the proofs - funnily, it all went quiet from then on.

Moral of the story: A proper proof can save you a lot of money in the long run.

Yeah greed can be the undoing of a lot of people, but you covered yourself with emails (documented proof), this is also very important as you never know when someone will try and stitch you up.

OliverLuke

I am pleased it all seems to have ended well for you, good luck in the future.

 

[iArtist]

If you correct this for him, he'll be sure to put more business you way. Meanwhile ensure things which need to be read are clear..favour clarity over fancy design.

 

[reggiemental]

Meanwhile ensure things which need to be read are clear..favour clarity over fancy design.

The key point I believe.

The designer should have pointed out to the client that the colour choice may cause problems in a low-lit restaurant environment, and offered an alternative solution.

There are many occasions where you need to 'think' for the client and, as Ibrow mentioned, you need to visualise the finished product being used in the intended environment. If in doubt, pay for a wet-proof. It can literally save you thousands and also upsetting a valuable client.

Many print companies will have an experienced in-house design team so it's definitely worth asking your printer to take a look at your pdf before it reaches the final print stage. A second pair of experienced eyes is always helpful.