UPS Demanding Import Tax From Me I Never Asked Them To Pay

[Second Place]

About 6 weeks ago I ordered a £600 item from the USA and it was delivered by UPS. I never got charged import tax so I thought customs must not have applied a charge (I’m not VAT registered).

Then two weeks later I got a bill from UPS asking for about £130 from me. Presumably they had paid the VAT for me, released the parcel and realised I did not have a credit account so now want to recover the funds. I ignored this (stupid I know) and today received a letter adding a £10 late fee on and demanding I pay it within 7 days. I have two questions-

-Can UPS add a late fee on as I never agreed to that?

-Can they force me to pay the £130 tax bill as I never asked them to?

Thanks for the help.

 

[japancool]

They didn't pay it. The premium delivery companies like UPS and Fedex deliver first and bill in arrears.

 

[Second Place]

They didn't pay it. The premium delivery companies like UPS and Fedex deliver first and bill in arrears.

A'm I under any obligation to pay it? This is a bit like me paying someones bill at a restaurant without asking them, then demanding they pay me and if they don't I'm adding a late fee.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Pay as you owe the money. £600 value so 20% is £120 + £10 ups admin charge. All correct. Pay and move on.

 

[Second Place]

Pay as you owe the money. £600 value so 20% is £120 + £10 ups admin charge. All correct. Pay and move on.

I'd dispute I owe UPS anything as I never asked them to pay it for me. What is the legal basis for me owing them money?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

You imported it into the UK not UPS !
The only basis where you could avoid liability is if you refused the consignment at the point of delivery but you accepted it
Just pay the duty on it !

 

[WaveJumper]

Thats why it's called 'import duty' we all have to pay nature of the beast unfortunately.

 

[Second Place]

You imported it into the UK not UPS !
The only basis where you could avoid liability is if you refused the consignment at the point of delivery but you accepted it
Just pay the duty on it !

I don't understand this. I bought goods from a US company that then shipped them to me. The contract with UPS was with the US supplier not me. The same way that if a UK person buys something from me their contact is with me and my contact is with Royal Mail.

Customs would not release the goods without payment so UPS paid them but I did not ask them to, they did it of their own accord. I could have have chosen to refuse to pay the tax and had the item returned to the USA but UPS effectively prevented me from pursuing that action as they delivered the parcel to me without notifying me there was tax to pay.

Basically what I'm asking is "is this an enforceable contract" as the supplier paid UPS to ship the item and I never asked them to pay my bill. They did that without ever contacting me.

 

[japancool]

A'm I under any obligation to pay it? This is a bit like me paying someones bill at a restaurant without asking them, then demanding they pay me and if they don't I'm adding a late fee.

Who ate the food, you or the other person? Who imported the item?

I'd dispute I owe UPS anything as I never asked them to pay it for me. What is the legal basis for me owing them money?

Presumably, you are prepared to send the item back to the US if you do not pay the legally required import tax?

 

[japancool]

Customs would not release the goods without payment so UPS

Yes, they would. UPS will have a VAT deferment account.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Your obligation is to the UK government you already agreed to pay the duty when you ordered the goods from outside of the UK . UPS took care of this for you

As I stated you showed every intention of paying any sums due when you accepted the delivery

We should all be aware of our legal responsibilities when buying stock / goods from outside of the UK
Ignorance is no defence

 

[DontAsk]

About 6 weeks ago I ordered a £600 item from the USA and it was delivered by UPS. I never got charged import tax so I thought customs must not have applied a charge

But you are aware the VAT and, possibly, duty are assessable on all imports.

(I’m not VAT registered).

Irrelevant.

Then two weeks later I got a bill from UPS asking for about £130 from me. Presumably they had paid the VAT for me, released the parcel and realised I did not have a credit account so now want to recover the funds.

Entirely standard practice for couriers such as UPS, FedEx, etc.

Would you have refused to pay if the goods had been sent by post and Royal Mail or Parcel Force had sent you a bill before delivery?

What do the sellers Ts&Cs say about shipping? You probably agreed to the item being sent by courier, along with liability for any import taxes and duty payable.

Just pay up and stop trying to find a way out of paying what you morally and legally owe.

 

[paulears]

Oddly - yesterday I got a £7 'fine' for unpaid duty. I called the number and said that I wasn't aware of any outstanding sum - but if she could tell me the duty, VAT and fine due, I'd pay it (trusting UPS to have it right) To my amazement, she asked me for the waybill number - I said all I have is the invoice number. No good. Have you had any parcels delivered? Yes - dozens. They were going to call me today or email - not a sausage! I have so many parcels with and without VAT/duty and handling being charged how am I supposed to know I owe them with no bill? They really seem clueless?

 

[japancool]

We should all be aware of our legal responsibilities when buying stock / goods from outside of the UK
Ignorance is no defence

He wasn't even ignorant of his obligations:

I never got charged import tax so I thought customs must not have applied a charge (I’m not VAT registered).

He was clearly expecting to be charged import VAT. He's just looking for an excuse not to pay it.

 

[japancool]

Oddly - yesterday I got a £7 'fine' for unpaid duty. I called the number and said that I wasn't aware of any outstanding sum - but if she could tell me the duty, VAT and fine due, I'd pay it (trusting UPS to have it right) To my amazement, she asked me for the waybill number - I said all I have is the invoice number. No good. Have you had any parcels delivered? Yes - dozens. They were going to call me today or email - not a sausage! I have so many parcels with and without VAT/duty and handling being charged how am I supposed to know I owe them with no bill? They really seem clueless?

It wasn't one of these, was it?
https://www.nationalworld.com/lifes...ges-and-what-to-do-if-you-receive-one-3236991

 

[Second Place]

Your obligation is to the UK government you already agreed to pay the duty when you ordered the goods from outside of the UK . UPS took care of this for you

As I stated you showed every intention of paying any sums due when you accepted the delivery

Ignorance is no defence

I'd have had to of paid it or not get my parcel but I don't see how that is relevant. The cheeky people at UPS have done something, I did not ask them to do and now they are demanding the money back plus some extra. I don't what to get dragged down a moral or hypothetical path.

Legally -based on facts we know not things we assume- do I legally have to pay UPS and if so why?

Would you have refused to pay if the goods had been sent by post and Royal Mail or Parcel Force had sent you a bill before delivery?

What do the sellers Ts&Cs say about shipping? You probably agreed to the item being sent by courier, along with liability for any import taxes and duty payable.

Just pay up and stop trying to find a way out of paying what you morally and legally owe.

I don't think most of this is relevant and we are straying off topic. Had UPS held the item until I payed the tax I would have had two options. Pay the fee and get my item or not pay it and not get my item. It's irrelevant though as what I wan't to know is, in a court would I be force to reimburse UPS for a bill that I never asked them to pay for me?

He wasn't even ignorant of his obligations:

He was clearly expecting to be charged import VAT. He's just looking for an excuse not to pay it.

I'm not looking for an excuse. I wan't to know why -purely in terms of legal facts- I should have to pay a company for something I never asked them to do and how they can then add an administration and late feed on top of that for a service I never asked for?

 

[Second Place]

Who ate the food, you or the other person? Who imported the item?

Can you explain this to me? If table A is in a restaurant and eat the food with full intentions of paying for it. They go to pay to be told me (a complete stranger) has paid for it so they can leave the premises as their bill is settled. The next day I start demanding they pay me for their meal plus pay an administration fee.

In this situation I'd argue table A owe nothing. The restaurant has been paid so they are happy and they never asked me to pay their bill so owe me nothing.

Do you disagree with this and think table A do owe me something?

 

[japancool]

Can you explain this to me? If table A is in a restaurant and eat the food with full intentions of paying for it. They go to pay to be told me (a complete stranger) has paid for it so they can leave the premises as their bill is settled. The next day I start demanding they pay me for their meal plus pay an administration fee.

The item being imported is yours. The meal is not yours.

 

[japancool]

I'm not looking for an excuse. I wan't to know why -purely in terms of legal facts- I should have to pay a company for something I never asked them to do and how they can then add an administration and late feed on top of that for a service I never asked for?

Sounds like an excuse to me.

And as I've explained to you twice, they did not pay your bill.

 

[paulears]

No. genuine UPS invoice that I could tell - although, she was very difficult to understand?

Maybe as they didn't call back - it is a scam?
This is the invoice - any clues?

 

[japancool]

Maybe as they didn't call back - it is a scam?
This is the invoice - any clues?

Wouldn't have thought it was a scam as it has your account number on it (maybe want to redact that).

 

[paulears]

Going back to the original topic - sorry - you do not have a contract with them at all, and if you give them the goods back so they can be destroyed, HMRC will refund them what they paid on your behalf, and cancel the disbursement fee.

You have to get the goods delivered to your address from the point of entry. HMRC levy duty and VAT based on the declared value and description - and sometimes, they do sail though untouched, and they get delivered to you free of charge, paid for by the sender. UPS, Fedex and the others pay because if they didn't, you wouldn't get the parcel would you? It's not them - it's a pain, hence why they charge for doing it. They will, however cancel things but the process is pretty mangled.


EDIT
Japancool - I've lopped off the final digits.

 

[Second Place]

The item being imported is yours. The meal is not yours.

I'll reword it to make it clearer. I'm eating a meal and go to pay at which point the waiter tells me I can leave as the bill has been paid by someone else (I did not ask them to pay for me). The next day the person that paid for my meal, demands I pay them for the meal and give them an administration fee. I owe them nothing as I did not ask them to pay it. If you disagree can you explain why?

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

I would of thought that by invoking UPS as the shipper, then you have agreed to their terms as stated here (or a similar variant):

https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_GB/terms_carriage_eur.pdf

In which case section 4 & 5 particularly applies and as it's a DDU shipment, the recipient is liable for payments due along with a handling fee.

 

[Second Place]

Going back to the original topic - sorry - you do not have a contract with them at all, and if you give them the goods back so they can be destroyed, HMRC will refund them what they paid on your behalf, and cancel the disbursement fee.

You have to get the goods delivered to your address from the point of entry. HMRC levy duty and VAT based on the declared value and description - and sometimes, they do sail though untouched, and they get delivered to you free of charge, paid for by the sender. UPS, Fedex and the others pay because if they didn't, you wouldn't get the parcel would you? It's not them - it's a pain, hence why they charge for doing it. They will, however cancel things but the process is pretty mangled.

It kind of feels this is a bit like receiving unconsolidated goods (when a company sends a product you did not order then demand payment for it) in the sense they did a service for me I did not ask for. It could be argued they were doing a nice thing for me releasing the parcel before I paid the import tax as it prevented a delay but how on earth they can charge me an admin fee and a late fee for something they chose to do without consulting me I don't understand.

I'll phone them tomorrow and offer to pay the import fees but not the admin or late fee and see what they say.

 

[japancool]

I'll reword it to make it clearer. I'm eating a meal and go to pay at which point the waiter tells me I can leave as the bill has been paid by someone else (I did not ask them to pay for me). The next day the person that paid for my meal, demands I pay them for the meal and give them an administration fee. I owe them nothing as I did not ask them to pay it. If you disagree can you explain why?

Did you eat the food?

 

[Second Place]

I would of thought that by invoking UPS as the shipper, then you have agreed to their terms as stated here (or a similar variant):

https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_GB/terms_carriage_eur.pdf

In which case section 4 & 5 particularly applies and as it's a DDU shipment, the recipient is liable for payments due along with a handling fee.

This is a good point. I did not invoke them as the shipper that was the US company I ordered from. I have no contract with UPS regarding this shipment. The contract was between the sender -who paid the postage- and UPS.

Looking at that document it reads to me that if I don't pay UPS will chase the sender for the money.

 

[Second Place]

Did you eat the food?

I don't understand what you are saying.

Yes. In this scenario I ate the food then went to pay to find someone else had paid for me. In this restaurant scenario am I under any obligation to pay the individual that paid for my food?

 

[japancool]

I don't understand what you are saying.

Yes. In this scenario I ate the food then went to pay to find someone else had paid for me. In this restaurant scenario am I under any obligation to pay the individual that paid for my food?

So you think you shouldn't pay for the food you ate?

 

[Second Place]

So you think you shouldn't pay for the food you ate?

No. I think I have an obligation to pay the restaurant. If a stranger pays my bill for me without asking me if I want them to I don't think I'm under any obligation to give them anything. And I'm definitely under no obligation to give them an administration or late fee. You seem to think otherwise. Can you explain your point of view on the situation?

 

[japancool]

No. I think I have an obligation to pay the restaurant.

Then why did you not insist on paying the restaurant after your meal?

 

[Second Place]

Then why did you not insist on paying the restaurant after your meal?

Because they paid without me knowing about it. They walked into the premises as soon as I had finished, went up to the bar and told a staff member they wanted to pay the bill for table 32.

 

[japancool]

Because they paid without me knowing about it. They walked into the premises as soon as I had finished, went up to the bar and told a staff member they wanted to pay the bill for table 32.

No, you have an obligation to pay for the food, so you can insist that you pay for it, regardless of whether someone else has done so or not. Then the restaurant can refund the other customer.

 

[Second Place]

No, you have an obligation to pay for the food, so you can insist that you pay for it, regardless of whether someone else has done so or not. Then the restaurant can refund the other customer.

Well I can't pay HMRC because UPS have already paid them or the payment is deferred to be paid by UPS. If someone can explain to me how to pay HMRC directly I will happy do it and UPS can reclaim what they paid HMRC or cancel their deferred payment.

 

[japancool]

Well I can't pay HMRC because UPS have already paid them or the payment is deferred to be paid by UPS. If someone can explain to me how to pay HMRC directly I will happy do it and UPS can reclaim what they paid HMRC or cancel their deferred payment.

You call them up and tell them you want to pay, and ask them for instructions.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Well I can't pay HMRC because UPS have already paid them or the payment is deferred to be paid by UPS. If someone can explain to me how to pay HMRC directly I will happy do it and UPS can reclaim what they paid HMRC or cancel their deferred payment.

How much hassle do you really want ?
Thats the question if you enjoy being a pain in the ass then try and find out how to pay the revenue direct on your own .
The idea here is to help each other not find ways of making a tough job even more hard work than it already is

 

[GraemeL]

The OP has asked for advice, received it and then wishes to argue about it. Thats their perogative of course.
Waste of time to continue.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

The OP has asked for advice, received it and then wishes to argue about it. Thats their perogative of course.
Waste of time to continue.

Your right but it pisses people off when they have spent their lifetime perfecting their craft and then somebody has a better idea

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Hopefully UPS has a black list and any customers who upset them go on it, and any goods delivered must pay cash to the delivery driver before they get the goods. Not enough cash the scheduled redelivery at a cost

 

[Deleted member 335660]

About 6 weeks ago I ordered a £600 item from the USA and it was delivered by UPS. I never got charged import tax so I thought customs must not have applied a charge (I’m not VAT registered).

Then two weeks later I got a bill from UPS asking for about £130 from me. Presumably they had paid the VAT for me, released the parcel and realised I did not have a credit account so now want to recover the funds. I ignored this (stupid I know) and today received a letter adding a £10 late fee on and demanding I pay it within 7 days. I have two questions-

-Can UPS add a late fee on as I never agreed to that?

-Can they force me to pay the £130 tax bill as I never asked them to?

Thanks for the help.

Well our experience of UPS is that they seem to be in a bit of a mess with these new rules.
We have had a parcel held in Madrid with UPS saying they have failed to contact us so returning parcel to UK. Yet we have a email conversation with them lasting 3 emails and lots of forms we filled in and documentation.

Usually couriers call before delivery to collect the tax but I think they are legally responsible so they will chase you for the tax as the Government will be after them.