Unincorporated Association - CT600 Filing via Software

[numbersrule]

Any help or pointers on this would be greatly appreciated!

Unincorporated Association has approved Final Accounts for year. They do not need to File Accounts with Companies House hence there has been no need to generate iXBRLs.

Now need to File CT600.

Have entered all Accounting Data in GBooks but entered as Company. GBooks does not like it and will not let me submit CT600.

Do any Forum Members know a way round this conundrum in GBooks or any other software which might enable CT600 submission for Unincorporated Association.

HMRC are switching to software for CT600 so I wish to get this sorted now then ready for change when no choice.

 

[Daybooks]

I don’t have any knowledge of GBooks but would expect (trust) you can submit either to Companies House or HMRC independently. Presumably an issue is you have is the wrong entity type is used and you cannot change it?

If you don’t have separate accounts production and taxation software then I would consider the HMRC online service whilst available. Then either fix the problem in GBooks for future years and/or if applicable (I.e. no taxable profits) get removed from the need to submit one.

Another option depending upon complexity is export data and re-import into the required entity. I would explore the option of changing entity type until proven not possible.

 

[Ziggy2024]

What error is it giving you? iXBRL relates to HMRC as well so you do still need to tag the accounts.

 

[numbersrule]

What error is it giving you? iXBRL relates to HMRC as well so you do still need to tag the accounts.

It says the error is in the signatures. But I think that is because an Unincorporated Association doesn't have a Director and yet a CT600 for a Company expects a Director to sign.

There is an option to upload a PDF of the Accounts so I don't think the lack of iXBRL is what's causing the glitch.

 

[Ziggy2024]

It says the error is in the signatures. But I think that is because an Unincorporated Association doesn't have a Director and yet a CT600 for a Company expects a Director to sign.

There is an option to upload a PDF of the Accounts so I don't think the lack of iXBRL is what's causing the glitch.

Yes that will definitely be it. I think Daybooks is correct in that case. It's not that the CT600 requires a director, there will need to be a director on a company set of accounts.

i wouldn't attach a PDF, you do need to iXBRL the accounts.

 

[David Griffiths]

What error is it giving you? iXBRL relates to HMRC as well so you do still need to tag the accounts.

That's not necessarily the case. If the unincorporated association is a members club or a voluntary association, then you enter company type 6 in box 4. You are then entitled to file accounts in pdf format as opposed to tagged iXBRL format. I've done that for years. That exemption might apply to other types of non mainstream company, but I don't have direct experience of those but the guidance is there to be read.

All of the software that I've used has detected that no iXBRL accounts are attached and give an option to explain that pdf accounts are submitted instead.

The form can be signed by any officer of the asssociation. I've never used GBooks but is it possible that it's looking for a director title on the accounts and not liking that it can't find one? The forms that I complete are signed by the Chairman with no issues.

 

[Ziggy2024]

That's not necessarily the case. If the unincorporated association is a members club or a voluntary association, then you enter company type 6 in box 4. You are then entitled to file accounts in pdf format as opposed to tagged iXBRL format. I've done that for years. That exemption might apply to other types of non mainstream company, but I don't have direct experience of those but the guidance is there to be read.

All of the software that I've used has detected that no iXBRL accounts are attached and give an option to explain that pdf accounts are submitted instead.

The form can be signed by any officer of the asssociation. I've never used GBooks but is it possible that it's looking for a director title on the accounts and not liking that it can't find one? The forms that I complete are signed by the Chairman with no issues.

I got a fine from HMRC for filing a CT600 with a PDF copy of accounts so I always file iXBRL. It may be that it will be accepted but I don't take the chance!

 

[David Griffiths]

I got a fine from HMRC for filing a CT600 with a PDF copy of accounts so I always file iXBRL. It may be that it will be accepted but I don't take the chance!

Not that you are going to try again, but I did that and got away with it. When the software detected the lack of iXBRL accounts the reason that gave was that I couldn't get the software to produce the iXBRL accounts correctly, so I'm filing pdf as the only way that I can meet the filing deadline. It was on the last day, of course.

For some reason the accounts produced by the accounting software weren't recognised by the tax program! No idea why.

 

[Daybooks]

I got a fine from HMRC for filing a CT600 with a PDF copy of accounts so I always file iXBRL. It may be that it will be accepted but I don't take the chance!

I would have appealed on the lines that it is perfectly acceptable in some cases. I regularly file PDF copies for charitable companies as not all of the accounts production software suppliers are able to provide 'SORP' compliant accounts let alone iXBRL ones! That said I do now have the software that does the charitable accounts so will be interesting to see how that plays out. HMRC's Charter (not that they pay any attention to it or even know of its existence) is not to unnecessary increase the cost to tax payers for meeting their compliance obligations.

 

[Ziggy2024]

I would have appealed on the lines that it is perfectly acceptable in some cases. I regularly file PDF copies for charitable companies as not all of the accounts production software suppliers are able to provide 'SORP' compliant accounts let alone iXBRL ones! That said I do now have the software that does the charitable accounts so will be interesting to see how that plays out. HMRC's Charter (not that they pay any attention to it or even know of its existence) is not to unnecessary increase the cost to tax payers for meeting their compliance obligations.

We did appeal and it was rejected.

As with most things HMRC do it is a lottery whether or not they a) pick up on things like this and b) allow an appeal. I've seen identical appeals receive different responses so I hold no faith in the system in general.

 

[eteb3]

I do now have the software that does the charitable accounts

What software is that, please?

 

[numbersrule]

I've solved the signature conundrum!

It might sound obvious, but because I was aiming to just submit the CT600 with an attached PDF of the Signed Accounts from different software, it hadn't occurred to me that the Accounts in GBooks did actually need the Accounts signature page completing even though those Accounts weren't going to be filed.

So it's all sorted and the CT600 has been accepted.

Thanks everybody for all your replies that has been very interesting.

 

[Daybooks]

What software is that, please?

It is the CCH software from Walters Kluwer. Not done one ‘in anger’ yet so cannot comment upon its ease or effectiveness.