"UK Corporate Portal" VAT number SCAM continues 2017

[glynsgallery]

I am enquiring what outcomes there were for people caught out early on, years ago, in this scam that continues to bug UK businesses even now in 2017.

This international scam, recognised by HMRC and reported countless times is still continuing at least 4 years after the first reports I can find, in 2013.

I'm no fool, and in 30 years of business I've never been caught out but this single tick box form caught me out along with 100s, possibly 1000s of others. This scam was so convincing especially when we get so many 'confirm your details' forms from HMRC and so on. All sorts of factors can lead to one slip up. The irony is I was just noting on the form that I am no longer VAT registered anyway. I signed it as the business owner to confirm that the VAT number is no longer applicable.

An interesting point made by a couple of previous victims: they suggested that there never were T&Cs & 'Order' terms anywhere on the original tick box form - these T&Cs are later added & you only see the 'photocopy' version of what you supposedly signed. It certainly makes sense as I don't remember seeing any sort of 'Order' title anywhere on the original form.

Either way, this is a major scam that even the HMRC acknowledge. YET, the HMRC nor the FSB nor CAB seem to offer any useful standard forms to send back to these scumbags, to terminate their threats. I am VERY surprised by that.

I will do what others have advised here on this very useful forum. I have already blocked their e-mail but they have started ringing me (I assume it's them, two different international numbers in 5 minutes this morning. I just remained quiet on the phone. Sadly BT don't believe in working weekends so I can't get them to block these numbers for me.

I don't have the money to pay anyway, and as others have suggested not one court case seems to have happened in 4-5 years - because they know they are criminals. They are preying on the frightened. I was in a busy gallery this Saturday morning when these phone calls came in. Yes I will try & heed all the advice on this forum, but it is nerve wracking nevertheless when you know you have criminals ringing you at work when you are dealing with customers :-(

I just wish we had a decent UK organisation to help members actually capitulate this merde. I will speak with TS on Monday to see if they can help more. I have already filed a complaint with Action Fraud and have spoken with FSB Legal Team who surprisingly say they hadn't heard of the scam even though they believe what I'm telling them. They did say it sounds very dodgy and not to pay under any circumstances. They said to call back if things continue.

Has ANYONE had any success in getting rid of these disgusting people, in the five years they've continued to harass and threaten UK businesses ? Would you please share your your outcomes and methods for getting them off your back ;-) Thanks in advance

 

[japancool]

What makes you think scammers will stop their threats or chasing you just because you send them a form from HMRC? These people are criminals who are intent on scaring you out of your money.

If the threat of the law was going to stop them, they wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

 

[Jane Courtnage]

I too fell for this scam even though like you I are very careful, but thought it genuinely was for the HMRC VAT due to type face, envelope etc. They are chasing me for money too via a debt collector in Prague and I have spoken to various agencies, Action Fraud and also UK European Consumer Centre who advised me to ignore. They have not once heard of them taking anyone to court but apparently they were taken to court themselves in Germany but won the case!! Like you I find it very stressful and it is good to know I am not the only one.

 

[glynsgallery]

Hi Jane

I've had the same advice. Interestingly Action Fraud say they cannot take action against this company as they are not sure it's a scam, even though likely. Nevertheless, the Federation of Small Business legal team and the Citizens Advice have said the same as you - to ignore everything as if this did ever go to court, they would lose. So far, no one has been taken to court it seems, and if they did want to take you to court they'd HAVE to fight the case over here in the UK, not in Germany.

I have blocked their e-mails and simply don't open any letters from them. They never send signed for mail, so if you simply store the letters UNOPENED, there is no proof you ever received the letters.

Having done a lot of reading on this matter, it seems that you just keep ignoring them and after several 'years'!!! they finally give up.

 

[Jane Courtnage]

Hi, thanks for your email. One thing I noted, like you, was there were no terms and conditions attached to the original form. They have started ringing now and leaving messages. Can't believe they have not been closed down by some form of legal team as it makes me quite stressful with it all, although everyone has said ignore them. Keep in contact if you hear any more please. I am sure there are lots of us affected.

 

[glynsgallery]

Can't believe they have not been closed down by some form of legal team

I agree. I think it's because they are based in Germany, and unless interpol type intervention is possible, even our own business associations FSB etc seem unable to do much to protect UK businesses from this sort of scamming.

I blocked their phone numbers as well, so that I don't have to suffer their criminal harassment.

I totally think that some organisation somewhere though, should stand up for UK businesses affected by these bas***ds so that 100s if not 1000s of us wouldn't have the stress of dealing with the fallout.

As I said, I never read their letters anymore, even though I wince when I see it on the doormat. I've blocked their e-mails and phonecalls. I will continue to do this as they ARE criminal, and will never go to court. The FSB have said that IF they ever threaten bailiffs (They'd need to have proof they've actioned one) that only then would they and the CAB step up to the plate.

The general feeling is that these low-lives are waiting for the really anxious victims to just pay up. They are working on laws of averages. If they harass 1000s of people and just 5 or 10% pay out their £800 - £ 4000 claims, then they justify their sick activity.

Keep ignoring seems to be the only way.

I'd also say keep posting here if further major developments occur, as if nothing else, if action is needed you have others to back you up.

 

[Jane Courtnage]

Just to keep you in the loop, today I have received another email from Iain Roberts saying the case is being handed over to the Hamburg Court System unless I pay by close of business on 23rd May. I am getting international calls too which I don't even answer. I cannot seem to block his email but just read and ignore. Jane

 

[glynsgallery]

I pay by close of business on 23rd May.

Hi Jane. I am not a lawyer, but according the the legal team at CAB, they say that you CANNOT be called to court in Germany. They HAVE to come here to the UK to take you to court. You cannot ask a person to travel the world to attend a court case. This appears to be the reason why no one has been taken to court, as they won't spend their own money to come over here to be defeated.

It seems that they are applying extreme harassment to make you buckle and pay. It must be extremely stressful at the moment for you, but according to everyone I've spoken to, and all the reports from others that I have read, they are scammers, they do bully, they are criminals and they will use harassment and bullying to make people pay. Indeed, do you know of ANY other company that you have ever dealt with in business, even those to whom maybe you did owe money, that are as threatening as these criminals? No? I didn't think so. ANY genuine & reasonable company would never have trapped and threatened as many people as these monsters. They are doing it to so many people. They have misled people all along. I even believe that the "order" terms in the small box at the bottom of the form you signed, was added afterwards when they send you the photocopy, so you just 'think' you might accidentally have signed an order.

Personally, I don't think they are taking it to court, they are just frightening you. Keep ignoring. BT have a scheme where you can block up to ten numbers of choice. Get onto them straight away.

Speak to CAB again now that they are threatening, but I'm sure CAB will say the same as they told me, that you do not have to go to Germany and they HAVE to fight the case in the UK. Here in the UK they would lose without doubt.

Keep us posted.

 

[glynsgallery]

PS Jane, do you have any professional associations you can contact - Federation of Small Businesses etc ?

 

[Newchodge]

Let's do this logically.

The worst possible thing that can happen is that they issue legal proceedings in the small claims court in this country.

IF THEY DO THAT (and they never have) you have the chance to issue a defence to their claim. Your defence will state that they obtained your agreement by deception. The case may be thrown out at that point or it may go to a hearing.

IF IT GOES THAT FAR you will have the opportunity to go to a court local to your place of business and argue your case while they argue theirs.

IF YOU LOSE you will have 28 days to pay their bill plus a small amount for the fees they incurred in lodging the case. This will mean that no CCJ is registered against you/your business. You will not have to pay their solicitor's costs or anything else.

Why worry? Ignore everything they send you unless you receive a proper county court summons. Which you won't.

I will make you the same offer I have made someone else - if you ever get a county court summons I will defend it for you free of charge. If you eventually lose the court case I will pay the judgement for you.

I can make this offer because I know for certain I will never have to make good on it because they will never take you to court.

Ignore everything you get from them and get on with running your business.

 

[Jane Courtnage]

Thank you both so much - I really really appreciate your help and advice. It is just that sinking feeling every time I open my mail box and the phone rings. Will get on to BT and block them. I know to ignore them but just cannot understand how they have got away with this for so many years and like you, I pride myself on being no fool and fell for it - most probably a bit cross with myself too! Thanks again and will celebrate when they leave me alone. Thanks very much again.

 

[glynsgallery]

Let's do this logically.

I will make you the same offer I have made someone else - if you ever get a county court summons I will defend it for you free of charge. If you eventually lose the court case I will pay the judgement for you.

I can make this offer because I know for certain I will never have to make good on it because they will never take you to court.

Ignore everything you get from them and get on with running your business.

Thanks so much Cyndy - that had also given me GREAT relief as I am receiving a letter every few weeks from this Germany fraudster - I am keeping them but refusing to open them. Your offer to defend us if we ever actually get taken to court is a great relief - as are your reasons for making that offer.

I've just got back from a short break to yet another letter from them, which again I've just bundled away, so your message is of great comfort - thank you

 

[Peter Durrans]

I've been getting letters from these shisters for at least three years, culminating in a debt collection company, with a very interesting English name "Colin Smith" threatening court action.

I will never pay as my defence is being completely being misled.

If they want to take the ultimate step of court action so be it.

 

[Renault10]

We too are having the same problems with the Corporate Portal VAT number scam. It started ion 2015 when we stupidly fell for the scam. I thought that it had all gone quiet as hadn't heard anything since the end of last year But this week I have received two emails from "Colin Smith", Senior Legal Counsel, Credit Collection Factoring s.r.o. and he has also rang twice today but I didn't put him through to anyone. Any advice on what I should say to him as he's ringing back tomorrow?? I am worried that this isn't going to go away. I reported it at the time to all the usual people (Action Fraud, Trading Standards, Citizens Advice) but no one has been able to help. I have ignored everything until now but now I am getting phone calls I don't know what to do. Any advice very gratefully received as I'm really worried about it.

 

[Newchodge]

Any advice on what I should say to him as he's ringing back tomorrow?

F*** Off would be my choice.

Don't speak to him. Don't acknowledge them in any way.

Or buy a referee's whistle and advise him that, if he calls again you will react approriately to his next call. Then use the whistle on the next call.

Why can't you understand the advice to ignore them?

 

[Renault10]

I can totally understand the advice to ignore them but it's different when you are getting 2 - 3 calls a day. I have never written on here before and though I have read everything already written it's quite scary and worrying when it's actually happening to you. I wondered if anyone else was getting chased by Colin Smith at Credit Collection Factoring s.r.o?
I will obviously continue to ignore but was just reaching out to see if anyone else was being contacted by Colin Smith and if there is anyone else that I should be reporting this to?

 

[Newchodge]

I can totally understand the advice to ignore them but it's different when you are getting 2 - 3 calls a day. I have never written on here before and though I have read everything already written it's quite scary and worrying when it's actually happening to you. I wondered if anyone else was getting chased by Colin Smith at Credit Collection Factoring s.r.o?
I will obviously continue to ignore but was just reaching out to see if anyone else was being contacted by Colin Smith and if there is anyone else that I should be reporting this to?

If you put the phone down as soon as you know who is calling, they will give up. They continue to call because you speak to them.

There is no-one else to report it to. It is an international fraud which the authorities are aware of.

 

[kulture]

For those who want a bit of background reading, this has been discussed before, here
https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/...uk-corporate-portal-vat-number-update.300913/
Please note that this other thread is old and may contain out of date information and advice.

 

[Noah]

If you put the phone down as soon as you know who is calling, they will give up. They continue to call because you speak to them.

Or.... Is it worth playing along with them to waste their time? I recently received a scam call as I was setting off driving (hands-free, natch) and kept the annoying git on the line until I arrived at my destination. Might discourage them...

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

Looks like this is a global scam

https://www.consumerprotection.govt...rning-on-fake-invoices-from-corporate-portal/

 

[Newchodge]

Or.... Is it worth playing along with them to waste their time? I recently received a scam call as I was setting off driving (hands-free, natch) and kept the annoying git on the line until I arrived at my destination. Might discourage them...

That's a good way to deal with it, except that @Renault10 seems to be finding the calls very stressful, and letting them prattle on may not be the best thing to do for them.

 

[BorrisDog]

Hi, I fell for this one and am now into the 2nd year 'contract' so this Colin Smith is chasing us for 2 years contract plus fees etc.
The original document states that the contract automatically renews (forever) unless you cancel via a Registered letter. Can I ask if anyone has sent the cancellation letter by registered post?
My MD is insisting we deal with Colin Smith head on rather than avoiding his calls. He wants to tell him that we have no intention of paying and that he needs to take us to court or stop contacting us. The point being that he can't take us to court in the UK as the 'contract' is under German law.
Please can I ask your thoughts or experience in this respect. Thanks.

 

[MikeJ]

Tell him to f**k off.

(Colin Smith, not your MD).

HTH.

 

[BorrisDog]

Hi, we've blocked Colin Smith and have not engaged with him at all.
But we have now received an email from his co-conspirator, James Clark. He is threatening to claim interest, compensation and reasonable costs under the UK Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998, and late payment of commercial debts regulations 2002 and 2013. this is at 8% over base.
I've started doing some reading into this to see if they can make a claim in the UK under this legislation - but is the advice is still to ignore it because a claim would never be made?
Has anyone else received this email?
Has anyone sent the 'registered letter' to cancel the 'contract'?
Thanks

 

[MikeJ]

You've made yourself a target by paying the first year's fees.

Tell them to take you to court.

 

[BorrisDog]

You've made yourself a target by paying the first year's fees.

Tell them to take you to court.

We haven't paid anything.

Anyway, from what I've read I've assured myself they won't taking it anywhere.

 

[MikeJ]

Sorry, I misread this to believe you'd paid the first year....

Hi, I fell for this one and am now into the 2nd year 'contract' so this Colin Smith is chasing us for 2 years contract plus fees etc.

 

[Maltesemagjc]

Hi, we've blocked Colin Smith and have not engaged with him at all.
But we have now received an email from his co-conspirator, James Clark. He is threatening to claim interest, compensation and reasonable costs under the UK Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998, and late payment of commercial debts regulations 2002 and 2013. this is at 8% over base.
I've started doing some reading into this to see if they can make a claim in the UK under this legislation - but is the advice is still to ignore it because a claim would never be made?
Has anyone else received this email?
Has anyone sent the 'registered letter' to cancel the 'contract'?
Thanks

We fell for this scam in March 2013 and after taking legal advice we sent a registered letter informing them that we wished to cancel the ‘contract’ and received a reply basically saying that the ‘contract’ could be cancelled for years 2 and 3 but we would still have the pay the first year, if we didn’t pay it within (think it was 14 days) the full 3 years would become due. We didn’t pay it as our legal advisor had told to pay absolutely nothing until (and if) we received a County Court Summons. A while later we were talking to a friend who used to work for the Fraud Squad and his advice was (as has been advised on here many times) to completely ignore them, replying to them or engaging with them in any way will be seen by the scammers as a sign or weakness or fear......exactly what they want!!
We are now nearly 5 years down the line (after ignoring them after sending the registered letter) and after receiving probs 30/40 letters communication from them now seems to have stopped as we haven’t received any contact from them for probs 12 months .

 

[BorrisDog]

Thank you for the information, its good to know.
That's what we are doing. Phone numbers and emails are blocked.

We fell for this scam in March 2013 and after taking legal advice we sent a registered letter informing them that we wished to cancel the ‘contract’ and received a reply basically saying that the ‘contract’ could be cancelled for years 2 and 3 but we would still have the pay the first year, if we didn’t pay it within (think it was 14 days) the full 3 years would become due. We didn’t pay it as our legal advisor had told to pay absolutely nothing until (and if) we received a County Court Summons. A while later we were talking to a friend who used to work for the Fraud Squad and his advice was (as has been advised on here many times) to completely ignore them, replying to them or engaging with them in any way will be seen by the scammers as a sign or weakness or fear......exactly what they want!!
We are now nearly 5 years down the line (after ignoring them after sending the registered letter) and after receiving probs 30/40 letters communication from them now seems to have stopped as we haven’t received any contact from them for probs 12 months .

 

[JulieR]

We fell for this scam in March 2013 and after taking legal advice we sent a registered letter informing them that we wished to cancel the ‘contract’ and received a reply basically saying that the ‘contract’ could be cancelled for years 2 and 3 but we would still have the pay the first year, if we didn’t pay it within (think it was 14 days) the full 3 years would become due. We didn’t pay it as our legal advisor had told to pay absolutely nothing until (and if) we received a County Court Summons. A while later we were talking to a friend who used to work for the Fraud Squad and his advice was (as has been advised on here many times) to completely ignore them, replying to them or engaging with them in any way will be seen by the scammers as a sign or weakness or fear......exactly what they want!!
We are now nearly 5 years down the line (after ignoring them after sending the registered letter) and after receiving probs 30/40 letters communication from them now seems to have stopped as we haven’t received any contact from them for probs 12 months .

Hi I am wondering if you have heard anymore, I have just received the letter from James Clark informing that they are now claiming interest etc, as per the letter above.
I am continuing to ignore but just wonder how you were getting on with this.

 

[glynsgallery]

Hi I am wondering if you have heard anymore, I have just received the letter from James Clark informing that they are now claiming interest etc, as per the letter above.
I am continuing to ignore but just wonder how you were getting on with this.

Hi Julie - I continued to ignore everything as it’s clear that everyone worldwide knows this is a scam - touch wood, the letters stopped several months ago and I think they’ve given up. Even if I get more letters I’ll still dump them all in the bin because it will never go to court and if it did they’d lose.

It gave me a glowing feeling to dump every unopened letter into the shredder

 

[JulieR]

Hi Julie - I continued to ignore everything as it’s clear that everyone worldwide knows this is a scam - touch wood, the letters stopped several months ago and I think they’ve given up. Even if I get more letters I’ll still dump them all in the bin because it will never go to court and if it did they’d lose.

It gave me a glowing feeling to dump every unopened letter into the shredder

Ha ha. Thank you for your reply. I know it’s a scam just want them to give up. Been getting letters since 2014. Just wondered how long.
Thank you very much.

 

[glynsgallery]

Ha ha. Thank you for your reply. I know it’s a scam just want them to give up. Been getting letters since 2014. Just wondered how long.
Thank you very much.

Fingers crossed these disgusting criminals will also give up writing to you too. I’m sure you don’t but just NEVER respond to anything. If you ever get a phone call (not sure I have) just hang up and don’t engage.

Best wishes and sleep soundly knowing that these criminals will not win over the innocent

 

[STDFR33]

If can’t believe people are still falling from this.

I first heard about this scam via fax at the start of my career.

 

[Maltesemagjc]

Hi I am wondering if you have heard anymore, I have just received the letter from James Clark informing that they are now claiming interest etc, as per the letter above.
I am continuing to ignore but just wonder how you were getting on with this.

No we haven’t heard anything for over a year now. It was more or less constant hounding from them for 4 years then it suddenly stopped.

 

[glynsgallery]

No more letters in last 12 months but suddenly they've started e-mailing - now also blocked and I continue to ignore these pieces of shit.

It's now from a Darren Collins (Legal Counsel) based in Prague ! using a PO Box number LOL

Darren Collins / Legal Counsel
CCF Credit Collection Factoring s.r.o.
Postal Address: P.O.BOX 42, Prague 2, CZ 120 00

 

[glynsgallery]

No we haven’t heard anything for over a year now. It was more or less constant hounding from them for 4 years then it suddenly stopped.

Me too, until today - they are like dirty little terriers aren't they )) See above post!

 

[Sharon Larsen]

We too fell for this scam in 2017 and we are being hounded, only by email at the moment by Colin Smith, Senior Legal Counsel, Credit Collection Factoring in Prague. I have reported to Trading Standards and we are ignoring all the emails and hope they will eventually give up.

 

[glynsgallery]

We too fell for this scam in 2017 and we are being hounded, only by email at the moment by Colin Smith, Senior Legal Counsel, Credit Collection Factoring in Prague. I have reported to Trading Standards and we are ignoring all the emails and hope they will eventually give up.

Yep had another flurry of emails from him but blocked them all (he has a few) and continue to ignore as they ARE criminals. AFAIK NO-ONE has been taken to court by these bastards ever, so continue to block and ignore & get on with your life & business.

 

[alan1302]

Yep had another flurry of emails from him but blocked them all (he has a few) and continue to ignore as they ARE criminals. AFAIK NO-ONE has been taken to court by these bastards ever, so continue to block and ignore & get on with your life & business.

No one would ever been taken to court by them as it's a scam.