Two sick notes, different reasons

[madmanc]

looking for advice on what i can do legally and what you would do in this situation please.

An employee has an ill daughter in hospital, leaves the office on a monday morning to be with her daughter, on the thursday she submits a fit note that states she is not fit for 4 weeks due to anxiety.

During the 4 weeks there has been no contact from the employee.

The 4 weeks ends this week and the employee has brought in another fit note which states she is unable to work for 4 weeks due to arthritis (shoulders and knees).

The job is sitting at a desk answering the phone through a headset and booking jobs into a computer.

During the absence the employee has posted on social media about going to the pub, putting up xmas decorations and laying a carpet!

What steps would you take next please?

 

[Newchodge]

How long has she worked for your organisation?

Do you have a sickness procedure/policy?

What is her previous sickness record like?

There is nothing wrong per se in having 2 different sickness problems consecutively, however if she has been laying carpets etc then you may wish to think about getting an occupational health report on her illness, provided that your policy allows for it.

 

[Deleted member 138423]

What steps would you take next please?

There are several employment people on here who could advise you very pertinently. You may wish to do a search for related topics and then find those people and approach them for advice!

 

[madmanc]

She has worked here for 17 years, has a record of occasional sick days and leaving the office without seeking permission after creating a drama, she has had a verbal and a written warning for this in the past.

We dont have a written sickness policy but we have a verbal policy that it is critical to be keep us up to date during any sickness, each shift only has 2 or 3 people on and a person down means we struggle to cope, all the staff are acutely aware of this and normally back each up other accordingly.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

you need to screenshot the facebook or whatever information you have. People have been dismissed as a result of social media interaction disproving their claims for being off work.

 

[BusinessDeli]

Show her the copy of her sick note. Show her the copy of her social postings and ask her what she thinks should happen. She's been there for 17 years so deserves a bit of leeway; I wouldn't want to get too formal about it too quickly.

 

[Newchodge]

Given her length of service and lack of serious previous history, you need to treat this carefully. I suggest that you contact her and ask her to come in for a chat about her absence and the causes of it.

If you would lke to PM me we can discuss in more detail how to do this.

You cannot assume that the contents of her facebook page are true. You also need to be aware that doctors often offer not to put the true cause of an absence on a sicknote, particularly if it may be mental health related.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Facebook is good evidence. It can and should be used as evidence against her.

Do you have a sickness policy? You need to have in place a carefully worded sickness policy that makes it clear what is allowed when on sick leave, and also makes it clear that the employee has a duty to ensure their rapid recovery e.g. drinking and partying is not in line with one who is meant to be recovering, nor is laying carpets when you have arthritis. Additionally a strong sick policy can ensure the employee is responsible for abiding by the policy to ensure she gets her sick pay e.g. duty to stay in touch with you and to take care of her own health.

You should be looking at disciplining this employee and sending out a very clear message. I would start by writing to her and inviting her to discuss her sickness at a formal meeting.

 

[smo]

You cannot assume that the contents of her facebook page are true. You also need to be aware that doctors often offer not to put the true cause of an absence on a sicknote, particularly if it may be mental health related.

Rubbish.

Facebook is far more likely to be true than anything else and a screenshot/webpage grab of it is excellent evidence.

Also Doctors are highly unlikely to give a sicknote claiming arthritis instead of mental health issues as they have to document everything in the patients notes and are answerable to thir partners at the practice, the PCT and the GMC. My wife is a GP - they dont lie on sicknotes as its not worth their license to practice.

 

[Newchodge]

Rubbish.

Facebook is far more likely to be true than anything else and a screenshot/webpage grab of it is excellent evidence.

Please read my post. I said that you can't assume that the contents of the facebook page are true. Ie you need to speak to her about it and then make a decision. I can readily envisage a scenario in which a friend asks what she is doing with herself, and she sarcastically responds with a list of things that she can't do.

I have had numerous examples of doctors saying things like "would you rather I didn't put work related stress on your certificate."

 

[smo]

I dont know about you but I dont post long lists of stuff sarcastically on facebook without it being really obvious that its a joke - this clearly isnt the situation where an employee is taking the mick, having time off and then contradicting the very reasons she is off by doing DIY etc.

Also if you know of doctors who falsify sick notes then you have a duty to report them...i bet you have no evidence to back it up though.

 

[madmanc]

Update on this,

I decided to take no action about the facebook stuff etc.

The employee's sick note ran out yesterday and she should be back in work today.

There has still been no official contact form the employee.

I have heard through the gravepine(from another staff member) taht she thinks her sick note last till friday, and intends to return to work on monday.

During her abscence ihave sent her a letter exoplainging our sickness policy and asking her to get in touch with me to arrange a 'back to work interview' when she is ready to return, she has not been in touch with at all throughout the abscence.

What would you do next?

I want to write her a letter on friday terminating her contact for non-attendance and not getting in touch. Can i do this legally? (she is a ona final warning for a similar matters (leaving the office without permission)

 

[sjbeale]

Please do not terminate her employment by letter.

You need to invite her to a meeting in writing to discuss the situation of being AWOL, the various reasons for her sickness and the events displayed on Facebook (having taken screen shots).

That meeting can form the basis of a disciplinary investigation to go forward to a disciplinary hearing. She may have genuinely not realised when the fit note ran out. At a hearing you could decide to withhold her pay for the days she has not worked and leave it at that. You would need to mention the need for keeping you informed if she is sick again. If you think she has been AWOL deliberately and her sickness absence constitutes misconduct depending on what she says then you must decide whether to dismiss or not.

Follow the ACAS code of practice in carrying out the disciplinary.