Transfer to New Accountant being Delayed

[DaveM36]

Hi,

Appreciate any help please, i am in the process of joining a new accountancy to look after my limited company accounts.
In short i am not happy with the Service being provided by my current accountants, the transfer forms have now been sent to them for a second time after they failed to acknowledge they'd received them previously.
The current accountancy are refusing to sign the Transfer form until an outstanding invoice has been paid by myself to them which i am contesting. Can they stop the transfer by doing this please?
Many thanks

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

If they are professionally qualified (not all are) they have to adhere to the rules of their professional body and I believe most say that unpaid fees shouldn't prevent the transfer of reasonable handover information.

Most new accountants will ask that you ensure a predecessors fees are paid before they will commence providing services unless they are in dispute.

By the way no accountant can stop a transfer. You are free to choose an accountant.

 

[DaveM36]

If they are professionally qualified (not all are) they have to adhere to the rules of their professional body and I believe most say that unpaid fees shouldn't prevent the transfer of reasonable handover information.

Most new accountants will ask that you ensure a predecessors fees are paid before they will commence providing services unless they are in dispute.

By the way no accountant can stop a transfer. You are free to choose an accountant.

Many thanks for your help, I will move this Forward on Tuesday!

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Not quite sure why you think think that your new Accountant can't start with acting for you straight away.

What take-over infornation is holding you up? if you have a copy of the last full accounts prepared most of the opening balances and comparative figures needed by the new Accountant should be available.

 

[DaveM36]

Not quite sure why you think think that your new Accountant can't start with acting for you straight away.

What take-over infornation is holding you up? if you have a copy of the last full accounts prepared most of the opening balances and comparative figures needed by the new Accountant should be available.

Hi,

The On-boarding team from my new accountants have sent the transfer forms twice to my current accountants who I cannot wait to leave
I queried with my current accountants why haven't you signed the forms, they replied there is an outstanding invoice you need to pay us which I have disputed, they then said once you pay this we will sign the transfer.
All the accounts are paid and up to date.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

that doesn't stop your new Accountant starting work for you. Signed form or not.

 

[DaveM36]

that doesn't stop your new Accountant starting work for you. Signed form or not.

May thanks for your reply.
Everyone pays their accountant for a service monthly or annually for a service if tax returns are not being submitted on top though you have been informed they have then only to receive a letter from HMRC to say it hasnt
Does this constitute a breach and possible refund of funds for not providing the service as they should?

 

[DWS]

If you received penalties and it was indeed your accountants fault then I would expect them to reimburse you these amounts, I certainly would to my clients but was there any reasons why the returns were not submitted on time?

 

[Newchodge]

What does your ex accountant have to say about it?

 

[DaveM36]

If you received penalties and it was indeed your accountants fault then I would expect them to reimburse you these amounts, I certainly would to my clients but was there any reasons why the returns were not submitted on time?

Thank you for your reply.
So last year I received from HMRC a bill for £600 to pay late filing fees for SA.
My accountant told me they would take care of this and get it refunded to me despite being told it had been done the fines went up!
I was then told it was wiped and HMRC would pay the accountant back to pay me i never received anything despite the accountant saying i’d been paid it!
To top it all off i get home last night to open a brown envelope from HMRC saying i need to file an SA return for 2018-19!
Hence me asking am I entitled to refunds here?

 

[DaveM36]

What does your ex accountant have to say about it?

Apologies just seen your post
They have said i have been paid it back in January when i sent company bank statements proving it has never been paid they then said someone is dealing with it!
I have never heard a word back

 

[justintime]

Check to see if the accountant has professional indemnity insurance. If they have, and you have proof they say they filed and haven't, then make a claim on their PII.

 

[DaveM36]

Check to see if the accountant has professional indemnity insurance. If they have, and you have proof they say they filed and haven't, then make a claim on their PII.

Appreciate your Advice many thanks

 

[Newchodge]

Appreciate your Advice many thanks

Unfortunately you cannot claim against their insurance. You claim against the accountant who may involve their insurance company.

 

[DaveM36]

Unfortunately you cannot claim against their insurance. You claim against the accountant who may involve their insurance company.

I am looking at presenting all of my information to a small claims court very soon unless I get payment in full for what is outstanding, I now have to phone HMRC in the morning and get confirmation for the second year running no SA return has been filed!!

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Thank you for your reply.
So last year I received from HMRC a bill for £600 to pay late filing fees for SA.
My accountant told me they would take care of this and get it refunded to me despite being told it had been done the fines went up!
I was then told it was wiped and HMRC would pay the accountant back to pay me i never received anything despite the accountant saying i’d been paid it!
To top it all off i get home last night to open a brown envelope from HMRC saying i need to file an SA return for 2018-19!
Hence me asking am I entitled to refunds here?

Did you give authority for HMRC to refund the £600 to your accountants?

This sounds very odd.

Have you made a formal written complaint to the accountants?

 

[DaveM36]

Did you give authority for HMRC to refund the £600 to your accountants?

This sounds very odd.

Have you made a formal written complaint to the accountants?

Hi Nicola,
No i didnt speak to HMRC
First of all my accountant told me this was getting wiped it started at £400 and kept rising!
When i got a letter from HMRC asking for more i asked my accountant what is happening was told its being dealt with.
Last September i had a huge SA refund from HMRC on that statement £600 for late pen filing was deducted from it by HMRC so the accountant couldnt have dealt with it
December last year i was told by the accountant we are getting it back for you do you want a cheque from HMRC or taken off next years accounts? I said a cheque please again nothing
Gets to February this year i raised it with my accountant they said you were paid it in January i sent them a bank statement proving no payment received
Since then nothing

 

[Newchodge]

It sounds to me as if your old accountant is not prepared to admit that they made an error and are hoping to fudge the issue to avoid paying you. Make sure you keep copies of all correspondence with them - their statement that they paid you the amount in January is an admission that they owe you thr money.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Nicola,
No i didnt speak to HMRC
First of all my accountant told me this was getting wiped it started at £400 and kept rising!
When i got a letter from HMRC asking for more i asked my accountant what is happening was told its being dealt with.
Last September i had a huge SA refund from HMRC on that statement £600 for late pen filing was deducted from it by HMRC so the accountant couldnt have dealt with it
December last year i was told by the accountant we are getting it back for you do you want a cheque from HMRC or taken off next years accounts? I said a cheque please again nothing
Gets to February this year i raised it with my accountant they said you were paid it in January i sent them a bank statement proving no payment received
Since then nothing

First of all I'm not defending your accountant as I dont know exactly what they have, or haven't done, but I will say as an accountant HMRC can be an absolute nightmare to deal with and to get timely refunds or responses to any correspondence, so the time scale you mention is certainly not unusual at all.

But I do think you deserve a full and proper response and explanation which you should get if you make a formal written complaint to your accountant.

 

[DaveM36]

First of all I'm not defending your accountant as I dont know exactly what they have, or haven't done, but I will say as an accountant HMRC can be an absolute nightmare to deal with and to get timely refunds or responses to any correspondence, so the time scale you mention is certainly not unusual at all.

But I do think you deserve a full and proper response and explanation which you should get if you make a formal written complaint to your accountant.

Hi Nicola,
I can see me having to go to the small claims court to get my money.
The Saga continues today they have told my prospective new accountant they are not signing the transfer forms to them!
Even though they know they are not legally allowed to do this, i have been instructed to get a solicitor to contact them.
Is there an accountancy body i can reach out to regards this please?

 

[Newchodge]

Hi Nicola,
I can see me having to go to the small claims court to get my money.
The Saga continues today they have told my prospective new accountant they are not signing the transfer forms to them!
Even though they know they are not legally allowed to do this, i have been instructed to get a solicitor to contact them.
Is there an accountancy body i can reach out to regards this please?

Which body are they registered with (sadly expecting the answer - none).

Accountant is not a regulated title, like doctor, or solicitor. Anyone can call themselves an accountant. If they are registered with one of the accountancy bodies, you complain to that body.

I hope you have checked that your new ccountant is properly registered.

 

[Mr D]

What exactly does the old accountant supply to the new accountant that the OP cannot supply?

Or is this an admin matter?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Nicola,
I can see me having to go to the small claims court to get my money.
The Saga continues today they have told my prospective new accountant they are not signing the transfer forms to them!
Even though they know they are not legally allowed to do this, i have been instructed to get a solicitor to contact them.
Is there an accountancy body i can reach out to regards this please?

Hi Dave

An outgoing accountant doesn't have to sign any transfer form, and having been an accountant for over 25 years I've never actually been sent or asked to sign any transfer form so I'm not entirely sure what your new accountant is actually asking for.

If your accountants (both the old and new ones) are qualified members of one of the recognised accountancy bodies they are required to adopt a standard hand-over procedure but that's not a legal requirement. The legal ownership of working papers and an accountants files is a different matter.

If you have made a formal written complaint to your old accountants and followed their complaint procedure IF they are a qualified firm you can make a complaint to their professional body. Do you know what accountancy body they belong to if any?

 

[DaveM36]

Hi Dave

An outgoing accountant doesn't have to sign any transfer form, and having been an accountant for over 25 years I've never actually been sent or asked to sign any transfer form so I'm not entirely sure what your new accountant is actually asking for.

If your accountants (both the old and new ones) are qualified members of one of the recognised accountancy bodies they are required to adopt a standard hand-over procedure but that's not a legal requirement. The legal ownership of working papers and an accountants files is a different matter.

If you have made a formal written complaint to your old accountants and followed their complaint procedure IF they are a qualified firm you can make a complaint to their professional body. Do you know what accountancy body they belong to if any?

Hi Nicola I appreciate yours and everybody elses help on here
I am on the ICAEW website
Says this firm is registered by ICAEW in the regulated area of audit and and required to comply with Audit regulations and Guidance thats all i can see.
Can i please ask is it worth my while to engage a solicitor here?
Many thanks

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Nicola I appreciate yours and everybody elses help on here
I am on the ICAEW website
Says this firm is registered by ICAEW in the regulated area of audit and and required to comply with Audit regulations and Guidance thats all i can see.
Can i please ask is it worth my while to engage a solicitor here?
Many thanks

Hi Dave

The ICAEW is certainly one of the leading accountancy bodies and does have a formal complaint procedure. I'm not a member, my primary body is the ACCA so I dont know their exact complaint procedure but most are broadly the same. Have a look on the ICAEW website.

Is it worthwhile engaging a solicitor - probably not. Bear in mind the cost, hassle and likely net gain. What has been your actual financial loss which was directly a result of negligence? How much are you going to pay a solicitor to deal with this?

Have you actually made a formal written complaint to your former accountants yet?

 

[DaveM36]

Hi Dave

The ICAEW is certainly one of the leading accountancy bodies and does have a formal complaint procedure. I'm not a member, my primary body is the ACCA so I dont know their exact complaint procedure but most are broadly the same. Have a look on the ICAEW website.

Is it worthwhile engaging a solicitor - probably not. Bear in mind the cost, hassle and likely net gain. What has been your actual financial loss which was directly a result of negligence? How much are you going to pay a solicitor to deal with this?

Have you actually made a formal written complaint to your former accountants yet?

Hi Nicola
I have formally complained to them yes but it falls on deaf ears they do not return calls or reply to email
£690 is the outstanding amount i think the Small claims court is the best route with all the correspondence i have with them over this.
So there is nothing to stop my new accountant working for me doing returns etc going forward from here? All my accounts are paid up to date at present.

 

[Newchodge]

£690 is the outstanding amount i think the Small claims court is the best route with all the correspondence i have with them over this.

What about the penalties for this year's non-filing?
You can issue a claim for the first amount and then issue a further claim for any amount that comes to light later. The fact they have claimed to have paid you the first amount, when you can prove they have not, is unequivocal evidence that they owe you the money. Were those conversations in writing, inc email?

In most complaints procedures you need to put in writing the exact detail of your complaint, heading the document 'formal complaint' and detailing exactly what you are complaining about. Anything else and they may claim they did not realise it was a formal complaint that needed handling under their complaints procedure!

 

[DaveM36]

What about the penalties for this year's non-filing?
You can issue a claim for the first amount and then issue a further claim for any amount that comes to light later. The fact they have claimed to have paid you the first amount, when you can prove they have not, is unequivocal evidence that they owe you the money. Were those conversations in writing, inc email?

In most complaints procedures you need to put in writing the exact detail of your complaint, heading the document 'formal complaint' and detailing exactly what you are complaining about. Anything else and they may claim they did not realise it was a formal complaint that needed handling under their complaints procedure!

Hi Cyndy,
Many thanks for your response i will do this as a Formal complaint
Yes i have email and bank statements and HMRC SA statement to back up my claim
Vbest Dave

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

.......So there is nothing to stop my new accountant working for me doing returns etc going forward from here? All my accounts are paid up to date at present.

An accountant can generally still prepare accounts and tax returns without handover information. You’d be best asking your new accountant.