Trademark advice/help please

[method111]

Hi all,

I apologise in advance if I’ve posted this in the wrong forum. However I was wondering if anyone could help in regards to advice on trademarks please?

Currently been working on a 20 minute animated pilot sitcom, which will be coming up for release soon and will be looking to sell the pilot episode and some of the music possibly. The name of the animation is similar to a common catch phrase/saying for example “you can say that again” or “once bitten, twice shy”.

At present I have no idea, whether this animation will be well received and I’m fully aware that there is every possibility that it will not be popular.

Unfortunately I do not have the budget of a full fledged production company to work with and so at what I consider great expense it has been produced as best I can. Although it has been easier to produce the animation itself, music/songs, sound effects, voice work, illustration, animation etc. Than it has been to address and understand the legal side of it at times.

In light of this I am unsure as to whether I need to spend additional money registering for a trademark for this animation. Especially when this money can go towards the animation itself. While I hope for the best possible outcome, I’d still like to plan for the worst and save spending additional money when it might not be necessary.

Could anyone please advise me as to whether registering for a trademark is worth doing or even needed at this stage? As having looked online there are some films and television series which share the same title/name and apart from having the same name, share no similarities to one another.

It’s a small production but do not want to run the risk and worry of stepping on someone’s else’s toes so to speak in regards to the name/title of the animation.

I did think perhaps if we played it safe and used a longer title for example “Oh wow I would never have believed it! You can say that again.” The less chance there is of someone else using it in the future or the possibility we stumble on to a title/name already in use or which has previously been used.

Again if anyone can offer any advice, would greatly appreciate it. Not to mention the peace of mind going forward.

Many thanks in advance,

Tristan.

 

[The Byre]

I've forgotten what a TM costs, but it ain't much! £170? Could be less, but I think that's the sum.

OK, let's look at this rationally - just how good is your great opus? How much have you spent on it so far? What sort of voice talent are you using? Are you showing your work at any up-and-coming festivals? I assume that you have searched the TM data here https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext and have found nothing similar within your field.

Here's my 30 Cents - (1) I'm guessing you are a one-man-band and the name, concept and the format of your show (if it is brilliant - and that is one massive IF!) is something any of the big boys could copy in a heartbeat! (2) You can't sell something you don't own!

 

[method111]

Hi The Byre,

Many thanks for your message.

Yes I have searched the TM data previously and thank you for providing the link by the way. I’m pleased to say that nothing is showing up for the animation title/name.

As you quite rightly say it is one massive “if” as to whether it’s brilliant… it could be good, but more than likely it is bad however will have to wait and see how it is received when it is released. Which has left me unsure as to whether the Trademark is necessary or needed at this stage.

My concern isn’t that someone copies the animation or copies the title/name we picked, but rather making sure that we don’t end up using/copying someone else’s title/name which is the same or similar for the animation.

Kind regards,

Tristan.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I have a friend who retired to Majorca on the proceeds of an idea he had and used for a book. You cannot copyright book titles but he trademarked a sub-title and Penguin stupidly copied that and his concept.

 

[The Byre]

Good Morning Tristan!

My questions were not rhetorical, they do need answers, if only for yourself and for all those involved and/or invested.

Just how good is your great opus? This means focus groups looking at your cartoon and pressing a button for the good bits and the bad bits - or at the very least, giving an anonymous appraisal of the cartoon.

How much have you spent on it so far? Time and money - and of course computers and software, talent, mastering, etc., etc.

What sort of voice talent are you using? OK, Mel Blanc is dead, but cartoons still live and die with the voices. The images are only half the story and one good or bad voice talent can make or break a cartoon.

Are you showing your work at any up-and-coming film festivals? This is how you get your cartoon in front of as many eyeballs as possible as a novice. No eyeballs = no bids = no bidding competition = no sales = no money = end of dream.

On the specific question of trademarks, I looked up two of Cartoon Network's main properties (and really great cartoons) Cow and Chicken and Johnny Bravo. The deeply Freudian C&C is protected in 12 categories in the UK and JB is protected in 15 categories - the legal department at AT&T seems to make sure that all loose ends are sewn-up!

 

[method111]

Hi The Byre,

Thank you for your message and thank you for the links again by the way, Johnny Bravo has always been a favourite of mine.

In answer to your questions, I must explain that it’s only a small production done more for the love of creating itself. Even if the animation isn’t popular/good enough to sell, we’ve all enjoyed working on it and had fun doing what we love.

While it would be lovely to think that people will enjoy it, there is every likelihood they will not. However rather than keeping it locked away somewhere after completion worried that people might not like it, we’d rather release it in the hope that perhaps some people might also find pleasure and joy in watching it if they do find it to their liking.

Kind regards,

Tristan.

 

[method111]

Hi Atmosbob,

Many thanks for your message, much like your friend my concern is of a similar nature. In that I want to play it safe and make sure we don’t make the mistake of copying/infringing on someone else’s title. At the moment we haven’t released the animation and so now is a good time to make any changes to the title as needed.

To be honest I wasn’t entirely sure how it worked with film and TV, as mentioned previously there are a number of films which use exactly the same title. For instance the detective film Twilight 1998 and the vampire film Twilight 2008.

However from your post I assume that film/tv show titles can’t be copyrighted either and so we can use a title which has been used before by someone else… unless that specific title has been trademarked.

As the Byre mentioned previously and following a search in the TDM there are no similar entries, so I’m guessing/hoping this particular title we’ve chosen is okay to use.

In closing just wanted to thank both you and the Byre for taking the time to offer your help and advice, really appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Tristan.

 

[CA85]

following a search in the TDM there are no similar entries, so I’m guessing/hoping this particular title we’ve chosen is okay to use

No similar entries today, but what if someone registers it next week? For the sake of £170 why not get in first and give yourself peace of mind.

 

[Panoramix IP]

It is not that common for movie titles to be registered as trade marks. A trade mark is supposed to be an indicator of the origin of goods or services. A movie name does not meet that definition. That being said, it is unlikely the UKIPO would refuse to register a trade mark. It is a small price to pay if you register the trade mark yourself in the UK but what are you realistically hoping to achieve from having a trade mark registration? Would you be prepared to enforce your rights in the courts if someone did use a similar name for their own movie/production? Having a UK trade mark also would not stop someone using the same name in any other country in the world.