To open a bar need to know the steps to take

[Germanoff]

Hello everyone,
I am quite new to this forum, but there is no where to turn for a free and reliable advice.
I am willing to open a bar in my area and I found the perfect place to do it 60m2, one WC and one exit/entrance door, large display windows to the street, plenty of parking space. Unfortunately the place is having A1 (retail, hairdressing, etc.) purpose of use and to change it I have to apply to the local council. They told me on the phone that I can write to the preplanning department and be charged 60 quid for the service, but they can not tell me where I can read all the legal regulations beforehand. I have been told also that I will need personal and premises license for selling alcoholic drinks. Another obstacle is the fire regulations. So many things that I do not know where to start and where to ask or look for detailed information. what to do firs and what next.

To put it simple, I just do not want to start investing money in one thing without knowing that there is something to be done previously.
Can you please share you experiences or give me some sources of information that could help!!!

Thanks!
Ivan

 

[businessfunding]

Be prepared for the avalanche!!

First point, with the best will in the world, I would struggle to describe the information given on here as 'reliable' - much of it is opinion based so cannot by definition cover all eventualities.

From reading your post I would have to question what budget you have available for this venture? I have seen many food & drink ventures go bust before they even open due to fit-out costs and delays (mainly waiting for planning and licencing decisions).

Then comes the broader question - why will people come to your bar? This is a fiercly competitive business with bars going bust left right and centre. It is possible to succeed, but you need to be better (or sometimes different) from the rest.

 

[Germanoff]

Well the budget is limited and all the hidden costs for me are the fees I will need to pay for licenses and permits. On the other hand why people would come to my bar I think I have a very simple answer, there are no other bars in the whole area, three pubs just near by, but PUB is a PUB. I have the idea of a bar-night club atmosphere, where you could dance and have a drink. No draught beer. Cocktails and quality beverages! And also I am a professional bartender for more than 15 years... I really feel it's just a question of get it open.

 

[Banned]

very simple answer, there are no other bars in the whole area, three pubs just near by, but PUB is a PUB.

Why isn't there a bar in this area?

Find that out first.

Getting change of use from A1 could be problematic as well.

 

[estwig]

First point, with the best will in the world, I would struggle to describe the information given on here as 'reliable' - much of it is opinion based so cannot by definition cover all eventualities.

So are we to assume being a small business vulture, I mean advisor, that your advice is reliable?

 

[businessfunding]

When I offer advice I would expect it to be reliable and will stand by it.

When I offer an opinion it is just that - an opinion and open to debate.

In this case I have simply asked questions.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Well the budget is limited and all the hidden costs for me are the fees I will need to pay for licenses and permits. On the other hand why people would come to my bar I think I have a very simple answer, there are no other bars in the whole area, three pubs just near by, but PUB is a PUB. I have the idea of a bar-night club atmosphere, where you could dance and have a drink. No draught beer. Cocktails and quality beverages! And also I am a professional bartender for more than 15 years... I really feel it's just a question of get it open.

If you consider that no bars are open anywhere in the area as a positive reason to actually open a bar in the area, then I think you should re-evaluate your entire approach.

 

[Germanoff]

To put aside the subject of opening or not, a bar even if there is no other bars, I am a professional and I know how to make it work, so this is not the point.

What I really need is some advice on the steps to take and in which order to take them.

Please any info is appreciated!!!

Thanks

 

[aqudu]

some other things to consider/think about as part of your research :

* You may need to have a public entertainment license - music etc
* you may need to get license for showing tv - assuming you show sports matches during the day or important tournaments
* are you providing food as well? you may need to have health/hygiene certification
* in order to get licensed for food you may need to get good ventilation or rather kitchen fumes extraction unit etc
* potential issue with residents - noise related and complaints regarding polution (smell from waste e.g. worse if you serve seafood/fish.
* consider the potential of having restricted license hours for serving alcohol (you do not want this kind of a problem if you intend to keep open till late or rather early morning hours)

 

[Steve Sellers]

I have been told also that I will need personal and premises license for selling alcoholic drinks. Another obstacle is the fire regulations. So many things that I do not know where to start and where to ask or look for detailed information. what to do firs and what next.

For changing the use of the building you need to refer to Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987, and the Town and Country Planing Act.

For your personal licence you will need(just for a start):

• A licensing course + qualification such as BIIAB Level 2 APLH - cost £100+
• A police records check - cost £25+
• application fee - £40

For your premises licence nearly everything you need to know is contained within the Licensing Act 2003. The application cost itself will vary depending on the size of the premises. As a guide you can expect to include:

• Application Fee - Starting at £100 - £600+
• Newspaper Advert - £100+
• Scale drawing of premises (free if you do yourself)

Aqudu has made some good suggestions but I would ask for a full licence as you want first in terms of opening hours and deal with any objection as they come up by changing the schedule.

If you need any more advice in regards to a premises licence application let me know.

 

[businessfunding]

As a first step, I would contact your local council and establish whether there is any reason why a licence might not be granted in that property or the area in general. Similarly, the property lease might contain specific covenants against use for eating or drinking.

Anything Government related (licencing / planning / food hygeine etc) can be long and proratracted so you will need to get these rolling ASAP.

Accepting your comments about knowing how to make it work, even the most robust trading model will fail if you don't have sufficient cash to get the place open. Off the top of my head, your pre-opening costs will include licences, planning, architects(?), lease deposit, lease payments, rates(?), fit-out costs, furniture, decor, bar, stock, staff/training. As a ball park, you are going to be looking at at least £100K cash out before you get any revenue.

 

[Vintage06]

Quick question.

Are the 3 pubs near to where your bar will be always full or are they empty. Because if they are empty then you might be wasting your time.

If they are full, what type of drinkers are in there? Do they serve food? Is it family oriented pubs. Ask the landlords if you can do some feeling around in there pubs. They might not like the competition but market research is everything.

 

[SeaTheStars]

Hi there,

Would someone kind enough talk me through what leasing and freehold involves etc.

I am considering writing a Business plan for a new bar/lounge in my area but I am unsure of how to get the premisis - what online directory will tell me the available bars for lease?

What is the planning permission like? given the bar won't be owned outright by me I am considering building a secure lounge that will be reserved and rented out for entertainment purposes which will have some sort of sound proofing from the rest of the bar - you'll have to understand the context of my bar to realise this is what's going to make it succesful.

I dont think there will be any structural building work but just work inside to get it sorted to the way I like? but then again what are the restrictions on changing the name of the bar? and what's to stop the landlord stopping your lease and continuing the Bar if it's profitable in his own right?

 

[Germanoff]

Well up to now I have been investigating and the first step I took was to send a preapplication to the local council planning dept. in order to get some advice on change of use for the premises. That was 2 weeks ago and I am still waiting for an answer. I attached some pictures and a scaled drawing and it cost me 60 pounds.
So now fingers crossed they will tell me if there is any possibility to get it and what would I need to do befor applying.
I will update the post when there is news.

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

I would start with compiling a list of category of people.

Employment status, age etc

Then you will have your answer.

 

[oliver123]

I am replying to your post simply because I too am planning entering the trade. Having read your post I wonder why you are doing this the hard way. If I were in your shoes, which I am I suppose, why not approach one of the pub companies/franchises to help you. They would be particularly happy to discuss your plans and help you from scratch. Of course this comes at a cost but at least you will have a mentor every step of the way.

I am registered with Scottish and Newcastle, Marstons, Punch Taverns and Greene King. For what it's worth, I would advise you to get in touch with these companies, tell them your plans and wait for a response. For me personally, I am planning taking over a pub co lease, the main advantage being that you walk into an established business and basically can tweak the business to suit your own needs.

I have found Greene King particularly helpful.

 

[Banned]

I have found Greene King particularly helpful.

I presume you are aware of the ties and fees associated with these companies, particularly Green King. Very little margin unless you opt for the much more expensive "free house" lease option.

A lot of hard work beforehand, and learning by your mistakes as you go for the first year or two, will pay huge dividends in the future.

 

[Working First Aid]

Don't forget the H&S related elements that go hand in hand with hiring employees -

- First Aid training at an appropriate level for the size/type of business you are running (in your case the heavy lifting of barrels in the cellar, coupled with high pressure(?) hoses) may mean you would be wise to obtain an accredited first aid certificate rather than simply nominate an appointed person.

- Fire safety assessment and plan

- Possibly manual handling

- PAT testing

Not the glamorous side of a business, but certainly of a massive potential benefit if you get those covered correctly - particularly in the sad event that something should go wrong...