Third Party Fault - Insurance Claim problems!

[AerialSolutions]

In August our works vehicle (a 52 Ford Transit) was hit from behind by a tractor. The tractor driver admitted liability straight away.

Our vehicle was written off.

After many many phone calls to our insurance company we have been offered a ridiculous amount of money. In their opinion our vehicle was in an 'average' condition with high mileage. They have not taken into account the sign writing, back ladder, heavy duty roof rack, ply lining, recovery and 2 years ago a brand new engine...

We were hoping to find a third party negotiator that could help us. Ive tried Googling 'insurance assessor' in our area but Im unsure if this is the right wording to search.

Any help or guidance in this matter would be gratefully appreciated

 

[Astaroth]

Who are you claiming from? Your insurers or directly from the third party's insurance company?

Given it is purely a disipute on quantum from the perspective of the vehicle you would normally hire an independant vehicle engineer to value the vehicle rather than a claims assessor.

If your claiming from your own insurers you may also consider the FOS but it may depend on the size of your organisation (see http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/answers/complaints_a9.html)

 

[TotallySport]

were the modifications on the policy? if not I doubt they will be included and they will only payout the minimum amount.

 

[AerialSolutions]

Who are you claiming from? Your insurers or directly from the third party's insurance company?

Given it is purely a disipute on quantum from the perspective of the vehicle you would normally hire an independant vehicle engineer to value the vehicle rather than a claims assessor.

If your claiming from your own insurers you may also consider the FOS but it may depend on the size of your organisation (see http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/answers/complaints_a9.html)

As the tractor admitted liability I would presume we are claiming against his insurance?

 

[ADW]

Insurance mostly pays out on the standard vehicle as that is what they are insuring unless you make reference to add on things like lining/branding, modifications etc. Were any detailed on the policy? Most people don't seem happy with their settlements for written off vehicles so you won't be alone.

 

[MikeJ]

If you're claiming on the tractor driver's policy, what you've told your insurance company isn't relevant (I don't think). The insurance should provide sufficient money to replace the loss. Put the onus on them to show that you can source a van for the amount, or get a quote from a company for the closest available vehicle.

 

[Bri]

Agree with most of the above, an assessor is normally sent out prior to settlement.

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

You should double check who you are claiming against. And also, who the company that they are insured by.

Norwich Union (as was) was particularly bad for not claiming against the third party's insurance when they too were insured by the same group. Which from a commercial view point for their organisation makes sense, however, tends to leave the claimant in a poor situtaion.

There are a number of insurance companies now that seem to have a pact where your insurance company simply pays out rather than attempting to recover from the third party, particularly when the amount involved is not significant.

 

[AerialSolutions]

Update is:

We have to accept the offer. Its non-negotiable. A cheque is on its way.

The third party insurance company is the Farmers Insurance, apparently notorious for being slow

 

[Astaroth]

As the tractor admitted liability I would presume we are claiming against his insurance?

Ultimately they will pay the claim but if you have comprehensive insurance you have the choice of either claiming off your insurance (who will then claim off the TP Ins) or go directly against the TP Ins.

The "advantage" of your own insurance is the fact that your covered by things like the FOS. The disadvantage is that it may impact your policy until the date they receive the cheque for reimbursement from the TP Ins.

Your need to check who you are currently dealing with as it will impact how to take things forward.

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

The insurance will only pay a vehicles auction value, rather than retail. Some work on a percentage on top, some set a percentage of 60% of retail - but they have set figures.

What you need to do firstly, is demand a hire van - this will make them move faster as the longer it takles, the more money it costs them. So they will settle earlier.

You then need adverts from local papers as evidence that you CANNOT find an EXACT replacement vehicle for the value that they state. Whilst this is all being dragged out, you will be adding loss of earnings of course.

They will 'up' the offer if you can prove that no replacement vehicle can be sought for the money. That vehicle needs to be of the same spec (ie ladder etc) If that cannot be found, then price and fitting needs to be added in order for you to do your job.

Remember, it isn't your fault, and you shouldn't be out of pocket - you will need to fight for it, as they will try to pay the minimum amount. Be polite but insistant, cost them as much as you can so they settle faster. If that means a hire van to limit your claim for loss of earnings, do so. They won't want to pay for long, so they will settle. But you need to kick up a fuss - just politely!

 

[AerialSolutions]

The insurance will only pay a vehicles auction value, rather than retail. Some work on a percentage on top, some set a percentage of 60% of retail - but they have set figures.

What you need to do firstly, is demand a hire van - this will make them move faster as the longer it takles, the more money it costs them. So they will settle earlier.

You then need adverts from local papers as evidence that you CANNOT find an EXACT replacement vehicle for the value that they state. Whilst this is all being dragged out, you will be adding loss of earnings of course.

They will 'up' the offer if you can prove that no replacement vehicle can be sought for the money. That vehicle needs to be of the same spec (ie ladder etc) If that cannot be found, then price and fitting needs to be added in order for you to do your job.

Remember, it isn't your fault, and you shouldn't be out of pocket - you will need to fight for it, as they will try to pay the minimum amount. Be polite but insistant, cost them as much as you can so they settle faster. If that means a hire van to limit your claim for loss of earnings, do so. They won't want to pay for long, so they will settle. But you need to kick up a fuss - just politely!

We have been hiring a van which they are paying for from the day after the accident (6 weeks) The cheque is on its way for us to enable us to find a replcement van within 7 days! Has anyone tried to source and purchase a commercial vehicle in 7 days??

 

[Astaroth]

Unfortunately the 7 days from receiving the cheque is standard at what is considered reasonable period. The basis of which is predominately that you don;t start looking the day the cheque clears but from when you first now the vehicle is a total loss.

You can potentially argue an extension if the vehicle is going to have to have modifications made before it is suitable for use (sign writing wouldn't count but racking etc could).

 

[gemd89]

When you first had the accident you would have contacted your own insurance and then contacted their insurance.

If you recieved a hire vehicle or had legal protection on your policy the extras including the roof rack etc would have gone down as out of pocket expenses as these are extras you have added to the car, petrol is another example.

This will then be added to the car amount and paid out.

If you had an injury the solicitor claiming for your whiplash would send you a letter asking if you had any uninsured losses to claim back and they would take all the details and send it to the tractors insurance and they would send a cheque out for the full amount unless they disagree.

With regards to your car you can turn down the first offer, but normally the insurance companies use books like glassers guide to determine how much they will pay out for a written off car, someone from the tractors insurance should have come to look at your car and normally it takes 24/48 hours for them to compile the report on whether it will be written off or repaired. Once this report is completed they will contact you with an offer to which you have the right to decline but you have to prove evidence that you could have sold the car for more than they are offering.

Hope that helps
Gemma

 

[gemd89]

Regarding the hire vehicle - which company are you using? Have they sent you something our called Uninsured loss form?

This is where you put your expenses and they will claim it back, may take a while but you get it eventually

Gemma

 

[S-Marketing]

Regarding the hire vehicle - which company are you using? Have they sent you something our called Uninsured loss form?

This is where you put your expenses and they will claim it back, may take a while but you get it eventually

Gemma

Never, ever though I would say this, but I agree with Gemma.

All uninsured losses are recoverable after a non-fault accident.

 

[gemd89]

Thanks stretchy!

The insurance claims is where i have spent the last 4 years of my working life so i know this subject!

Gemma

 

[S-Marketing]

Thanks stretchy!

The insurance claims is where i have spent the last 4 years of my working life so i know this subject!

Gemma

Dont expect me to agree with you again any time soon,
I dont think I could do it again.

I'm going to have a lay down now.

 

[AerialSolutions]

If possible this situation is even worse!

Aviva (the TP insurers) have sent a cheque for £1912 - less the salvage amount! - whatever that means... :|

We have employed an independent assessor who has reported to replace the vehicle alone should be in the region of £2500. Plus the extras we need to put our vehicle back on the road in a like for like basis: roof rack, ply lining, sign writing also the recovery invoice to remove our vehicle from the accident which brings our claim to nearer £4k.

We have written to Aviva refusing their initial payment. also pointing out that we are being very fair in our claim. One of the 2 engineers is still off sick the other is only available for light duties, this obviously is having an impact on our loss of earnings, which we havent claimed for.

Aviva are uncontactable by phone only emails.

 

[PhilWarman]

When they say "less salvage" they mean that they are allowing you to keep the vehicle rather than taking it off of you.

 

[AerialSolutions]

When they say "less salvage" they mean that they are allowing you to keep the vehicle rather than taking it off of you.

They offered us the vehicle we declined! Its a mess. A tractor hit us from behind at speed whilst we were stationary...

 

[eutrans]

If you do keep the van I know somebody that may be very interested in buying it off you for the engine.

 

[Astaroth]

The fact they have deducted salvage means they have processed it on the basis that you are to retain whats left of the vehicle - that said, with many vehicles salvage is zero or even a negative value because they just aren't worth anything once you've gone through the hazards waste laws etc.

On the basis of your comments, I assume that you;ve worked out your going directly through the TP Insurer rather than having your insurers fight it for you.

 

[AerialSolutions]

The fact they have deducted salvage means they have processed it on the basis that you are to retain whats left of the vehicle - that said, with many vehicles salvage is zero or even a negative value because they just aren't worth anything once you've gone through the hazards waste laws etc.

On the basis of your comments, I assume that you;ve worked out your going directly through the TP Insurer rather than having your insurers fight it for you.

We are both chasing this. Im sure theres only so much our Broker will and can do. This is our livliehood so we believe we have to put up a fight for a fair and reasonable settlement. The paltry £1912 will not even get us a van. Its been proved.

We have now officially complained through the Aviva website.

 

[longleaf1]

I don't know if you can do this commercial but I had a near enough the same problem about 5 years ago in my car. Hit by a van which wrote my car off, they valued it at a measly 2k when it was worth nearer 5k.

I complained to the insurer who did nothing and then complained to the financial obudsman who were brilliant.

I sent in details of 5 vehicles the same from autotrader, saying that i couldnt buy a vehicle like for like with the settlement they gave me. After a few letters from the Financial Obudsman, it was all resolved in next to no time.

Insurers will try anything on!! Makes me mad!

Hope i don't have an accident as my van insurance is with Aviva!

 

[Astaroth]

As previously stated, you can only involve the FOS if your complaining about YOUR insurer rather than a Third Party Insurer. The same will almost certainly apply to NUs complaints procedure.... You have to remember you are actually claiming against the third party themselves and they have delegated their authority to their insurers (which they don't have to do) and so its basically conincidental your writing to NU rather than the farmer themselves.

Sounds like your broker has decided to pursue the TPI rather than your own insurer so that they could sell your case on to credit hire etc for the healthy kickbacks they get.

 

[AerialSolutions]

As previously stated, you can only involve the FOS if your complaining about YOUR insurer rather than a Third Party Insurer. The same will almost certainly apply to NUs complaints procedure.... You have to remember you are actually claiming against the third party themselves and they have delegated their authority to their insurers (which they don't have to do) and so its basically conincidental your writing to NU rather than the farmer themselves.

Sounds like your broker has decided to pursue the TPI rather than your own insurer so that they could sell your case on to credit hire etc for the healthy kickbacks they get.

But if our insurer is not fighting on our behalf for a reasonable claim then we could go to the Ombudsman...

 

[Astaroth]

Your insurer's not your brokers but yes, if your insurers are handling the claim and you feel are not meeting their obligations then you can register a complaint with them and if they fail to give you satisfaction via that process you can then go to the ombudsman as long as you are considered a micro enterprise:

"Micro-enterprises" (an EU term covering smaller businesses) can bring complaints to the ombudsman as long as they have an annual turnover of less than two million euros and fewer than ten employees.

If your bigger than a micro enterprise then the ombudsman has no obligations to deal with your case (as your basically considered big enough to deal with things yourself via courts etc)

 

[longleaf1]

But if our insurer is not fighting on our behalf for a reasonable claim then we could go to the Ombudsman...

You would think so yes.
Ombudsman (just realised been spelling totally wrong lol!) will advise anyway.

 

[AerialSolutions]

If you do keep the van I know somebody that may be very interested in buying it off you for the engine.

Im not sure whats happening to the van. We refused to purchase it as its of no use to us.

 

[AerialSolutions]

As the old saying goes "If you want a job doing... do it yourself"

Without the help of our own Insurance Broker, Insurance Company or our Claims Department - (THREE companies) - We have been offered further money much more in line with our original claim for the Third Party Insurers (Aviva)

I personally took up our case online with Aviva (having lost faith with everyone seemingly shrugging their shoulders at our outrage of being offered so little for a written off business van) and they have been nothing but polite and helpful (unlike the young man originally who said we were getting £1912, nothing less, and it was unnegotiable and hung up). A further cheque (hopefully made payable to the right person this time!) is on its way to us.

Im shocked it only took 1 email from little ol' me to get this matter resolved.

When I informed our 'Claims Department' of my complaint I was told 'You may fall foul of this process as it sounds like it’s a complaints process set up to deal with their insured rather than third parties'

Not so CarcallUK!

Its hard enough in these tough times for small businesses without being 'ripped off' by major companies.

Needless to say my partner and I overslept this morning after a good nights sleep!!

 

[TotallySport]

Well done, glad you got it sorted.

 

[gemd89]

I had a 52 plate punto with 70,000 miles on, hit in the rear earlier this year and car got written off. TP insurer came out, assessed offer me £2000 and then let me keep the car - sold the car for scrap and parts for £200 so did quite well for my rubbish car! Definately better to deal with TP insurance.

Gemma

 

[Allan123]

Not read the full 4 pages, but I had a problem with an under estimate when I went in the back of a bus a few months ago.

Car was a total loss, my fault but fully comp protected ncb. So after the same offer 2 weeks running I turned around and said fix it then. Forget the payout fix it to how it was back to it's origal condition and value, to which his response was well it will go to Osbundsmen. No more than 15minutes later I was paid out the exact amount I was contesting.

Put your foot down. They will wriggle out of the tiniest of amounts, mine was for a measely £500 on a £9000 claim. Pathetic.