Think you own copyright?

[Eagle]

 
That website you paid for. Who owns the copyright? You? Are you sure? Did the web designer actually assign you copyright? In writing?...

That logo you paid for. Who owns the copyright? You? Are you sure? Did the graphic designer actually assign you copyright? In writing?...

It's worth checking to ensure you will have full legal rights to any design work (if desired) before you have it commisioned. If you don't, it always belongs to the originator.

Chase it now before it's too late.

 

[Jayne]

Never thought of that Eagle, good post.

Mind you, my designer is spot on and I trust him 100%., but their are many others I wouldn't

Jayne

 

[Richard Conyard]

Still worth looking at your contract.

In the case of ours we still struggle getting the message across so it's understood and in the correct legal terms.

 

[creospace]

Interesting post- gets me wondering and to take the conversation one step further:

should the designer automatically and morally give the copyright over to the client regardless if the client asks for it?

Gary

 

[Richard Conyard]

How can a designer impart copyright if they are using stock images?

In terms of moral responsibility it depends on what is being generated and what you're being paid for. A static site my answer would be a probably yes, copyright should be imparted. Sites that use scripting, or data access probably not.

 

[webit]

I worked for a major insurer who failed to purchase the ownership of images on their site - everyone thought that someone else was taking care of it.

 

[Eagle]

 
As far as my services are concerned, for custom logo design, assignment is all part of the service.

A professionally responsible graphic or web designer should at least flag the subject up to the client beforehand and give them the option.

 

[creospace]

Good point.

My php scripts I reuse of course for other applications/clients as required.

But where does that leave the client, have they paid for an unlimited use of those scripts? Should they leave my service does that mean I am entitled to remove them?

Kind of playing devils advocate.

 

[Rob Holmes]

Good point.

My php scripts I reuse of course for other applications/clients as required.

But where does that leave the client, have they paid for an unlimited use of those scripts? Should they leave my service does that mean I am entitled to remove them?

Kind of playing devils advocate.

We assign unlimited use of the script to the domain name.

so would include something like this in the script..

########################################
# This file has been written for 'yourdomain'.com.
# You are not permitted to copy it, modify it or transfer it
# by any means. Anyone found doing so will be prosecuted to
# the full extent of  the law.                              
# All Scripts and Search Engine Optimisation are copyrighted
# (c) Matrixxhosting 2003/4 - Tel 0871 218 0507
########################################

Rob

 

[Richard Conyard]

Here is our take on things:

Intellectual Property Rights in the new Project
7.1. You shall continue to own sole copyright of any text, graphics or
other Content provided to us that are unique and exclusive to you

7.2. Subject thereto, you shall own and continue to own sole copyright of
any bespoke language, HTML, VBScript, JavaScript, meta content or
keywords, graphics, designs, or other creative work or technical
work produced by us PROVIDED THAT we shall have permanent
non-exclusive licence to use the same in other work produced by us
for other customers. Any non-bespoke (as defined in the proposal),
technologies or integrated design shall be provided solely for
proposed purpose / website. You may not copy, resell or
redistribute such works to 3rd parties or re-use internally without
our express permission. Source code for these technologies may be
held in escrow between our two companies at a reasonable charge.

 

[creospace]

So if a new developer comes on the scene and starts using the same technologies within the same site but say in a new section?

Thing is I guess there's no way of checking

Gary

 

[Richard Conyard]

Actually we do have various ways of checking especially with maintenance etc. but to be honest it's not a problem.

The only problem that we would have is if a company we designed a site for:
a) Used our software for another site of theirs without acquiring the extra licence
b) Resell our software

 

[bwglaw]

An indemnity clause should always be incorporated in the contract on both sides i.e. web designer supplies images, he indemnifies the client; client supplies images, he indemnifies the web designer.

If copyright has not been assigned expressly in writing then the copyright remains with the 'first owner' as stated under s.1 Copyright, Design and Patent Act 1988.

Where the 'first owner' has not assigned the copyright in writing then the client has an implied licence to use the site (or whatever is copyright protected) and the client is therefore not allowed to copy, disseminate, etc

 

[DarrenC]

Interesting topic. I'm coming from a webmaster angle with no design background.

Most webmasters include copyright statements on our websites, but how secure is our design and content?

I used to receive a number of scam letters from so called Copyright companies who would register my business and charge me an annual fee.

Is there a governing body for Copyright? If not, why not? What advice do you give to your clients to secure copyright? What are the copyright laws in the UK - and what affect do these laws have if the individual stealing your content is from outside of the European Union?

Darren

 

[Eagle]

 
http://www.patent.gov.uk/

 

[bwglaw]

Most webmasters include copyright statements on our websites, but how secure is our design and content?

By this I presume you mean a website that states a copyright in your business or personal name. This does not necessarily indicate that the designer has assigned copyright to you but the content remains your copyright. Assignment of copyright should be expressly agreed i.e. in writing.

In some cases there can be 'joint authorship' where more than one person is the author/first owner. Entitlement to a copyright is a matter of fact and it varies from case to case.

I used to receive a number of scam letters from so called Copyright companies who would register my business and charge me an annual fee.

You should report the scam letters to the Office of Fair Trading who has powers to instigate criminal prosecutions. They may or may not be bona-fide 'Patent Agents/Attorneys'. You can register a trademark with a Patent Attorney. Copyright, Design and Patent are all slightly different.

Is there a governing body for Copyright? If not, why not?

See http://www.patent.gov.uk/

What are the copyright laws in the UK

See: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_1.htm

and what affect do these laws have if the individual stealing your content is from outside of the European Union?

I have not looked into this. I do not specialise in intellectual property law. however we have a member on here called Crossguard (philip) who is a Patent Attorney.

 

[DuaneJackson]

This is our take on it. Other clauses go on to indemnify the client should we infringe on anyone elses rights.

Basically, as we are developing pretty in-depth technical database driven and scripted sites we retain the IP rights as a lot of it is re-usable but we grant a license in perpetuity to the client.

I do think it's important that this is made clear to client. They can buy the IP rights if they want to - for a price ofcourse.

10.1 Subject to Clause 10.2 below, KEY ONE will own the copyright and all other intellectual property rights in all the
Deliverables (including the Software Deliverables) including any specifications and documentation relating to the
Deliverables which are developed by KEY ONE or its sub-contractors during the course of carrying out the Services.

10.2 The copyright and other intellectual property rights in any materials or software (whether written or machine-readable)
created by or licensed to KEY ONE prior to this Agreement or outside this engagement (“Pre-Existing Works”) will
remain vested in KEY ONE (or its licensor), but to the extent that these form part of any of the Deliverables,
EXAMPLE CO will have a licence to use them in accordance with Clause 10.3 below.

10.3 KEY ONE hereby grants EXAMPLE CO (unless specified differently in the respective Schedule thereto - without
further charge) a non-exclusive, non-transferable perpetual licence to copy, modify and use any of the Deliverables
and any Pre-Existing Works forming part of the Deliverables.

 

[bwglaw]

Duane

Do your clauses indemnify YOU, Key One for any copyright infringement caused by your client, since any copyright complaints arising from a website may well be directed at Key One in the first instance.

 

[VeryMark]

We have advised on various aspects of this, and it can depend on the type of contract and, of course, whether your point of view is that of client or supplier.

The first point is to always have a contract.

The second if you are designer is that any rights you are giving the client should not take effect until your bill has been paid.

The third is that if you have designed a logo or something else which is fundamental to somebody's business, the courts may decide that the client is the first owner of the copyright. [See (1) R Griggs Group Ltd (2) R Griggs & Co Ltd (3) Airwair Ltd v (1) Ross Evans (2) Raben Footwear Pty Ltd (3) Ronny Leopold Lewy (4) Garry Lewy [2005] EWCA (Civ) 11 ]

Fourthly, the position in copyright can be different to that under design right law.

Fifthly, it helps if you have proper terms and conditions as insurance.

Sixthly, always get advice in advance and not after the event when it is too late!

A designer we advised was able to obtain £24,000 as a consideration for the outright assignment of their copyright in various illustrations previously produced for a client.

For a producer of electronic brochures we were able to have a pirated cloned version of his website shut down.

In another case, we stopped a competitor who had registered variations of a client's domain name to divert traffic to the competitor's website.

 

[DuaneJackson]

Duane

Do your clauses indemnify YOU, Key One for any copyright infringement caused by your client, since any copyright complaints arising from a website may well be directed at Key One in the first instance.

Yep, it does. We have a very good Professional Services Agreement. It was one of those things I'd been meaning to get sorted for ages. Then one of our clients came back to us for some more work and needed a water tight agreement. Their legal peple work on service contracts for the likes of HP. I got on very well with them and managed to get ours done for next to nothing by some very talented people.

It's all very fair and balanced so that we don't have clients saying "oooh, I'm not happy with that clause" and we'd then have the hassle of getting it changed.

 

[DarrenC]

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself very well in the last post..

On my website I have a clip of text at the bottom of each page which states "Copyright ©2002 - 2005 Worldwide Holiday Homes All Rights Reserved"

Is this the correct text? What else can I do to protect myself against someone copying my design (which is designed by myself) and the content?

Can I register my design and content with the patent office? Does this cost much?

Darren

 

[bwglaw]

DarrenC

I had thought you were referring to the text usually provided at the bottom of web pages.

You have 'protected' it already by stating that you own copyright. There is no need to 'register' the site design with a governing body and it is rarely the case. You could perhaps put the copyright in your script if you have not already done so.

The date of the copyright should be the year it was first created and this should not change. However, if you do make some changes, then you can have a date form like this: 2004-2005 and just amend the last year if you make any changes. This then denotes that your site was copyright protected in 2004 and continues to be protected to the last year stated.

If you find another website has infringed your copyright then you are entitled to bring legal proceedings against the person/company and you can show in evidence that your site was protected from such date and you reasonably believe the person/company has infringed your copyright.

You could trademark your business name and Philip who posted earlier is the best person for this. H emay wish to supplement my points above.

 

[Eagle]

The date of the copyright should be the year it was first created and this should not change. However, if you do make some changes, then you can have a date form like this: 2004-2005 and just amend the last year if you make any changes. This then denotes that your site was copyright protected in 2004 and continues to be protected to the last year stated.

^ Yup - I use that at the bottom of my pages.

 

[DarrenC]

Thanks!

I must admit it's a pain having to increase the date every year - so could I get away with just putting 2002 and leaving it at that?

Someone told me to copy all of the content, design etc onto a CD and post it to yourself, and don't open it unless theres a dispute over copyright - it would be date stamped with your address on.

Would you recommend that as good practise?

Darren

 

[VeryMark]

Darren,

I've PM'd you back but email me and I can send you our factsheets on copyright etc.

 

[bwglaw]

Perhaps Philip would be kind to add to the point Darren was making as it is an interesting point for many website owners.

Thanks, Jonathan

 

[VeryMark]

Websites can be protected through copyright insofar as their text, graphics and images are concerned. All that is required to establish copyright is proof of origination and ownership, which means retaining dated evidence of origination and creation such as by way of original artwork, copy, screenshots and related correspondence and documentation.

You should keep all working drawings, notes, sketches, designs etc and sign and date everything as you go along - keeping this kind of docuement trail is very valuable.

All new or redesigned material should give notice of copyright. This notice should consist of the word ‘copyright’ or the symbol ©, the year of first publication and the legal name of the copyright owner, for example:
© 2003 Bloggo Limited or Copyright 2003-2005 Bloggo Ltd.

There may be an issue in terms of what copyright belongs to you and what belongs to a supplier or customer. You may wish to review any agreement between you and a supplier or customer and your terms and conditions of business to see if clarification is needed.

Additionally, websites can be protected through trade mark registration insofar as names, logos, slogans, designs and other business and brand identities and get-ups are concerned. This can cover not just ordinary company and brand names and logos, but also for example animated logos and other brand images or cartoons used as sales aids, a phrase such as “Ask Mike” used in a website to encourage customers to click through for further information, or the actual graphic style and colour used for the design of webpages.

Domain names may also be protectable as trade marks depending on their distinctiveness.

Separate issues arise with databases, which can be protected chiefly either through copyright or the new database right. For copyright to apply, the database must have originality in the selection or arrangement of its contents whilst, for the database right to apply, the database must be the result of ‘substantial investment’. It is, of course, possible that a database will satisfy both conditions so that both copyright and the database right exist. The database right is established in the same way as copyright.

Business software can be protected similarly through copyright and trade mark registration, but may also be patentable in certain circumstances if sufficiently novel and inventive.

Of course, you should be careful not to inadvertently infringe someone else’s rights when creating a website, database or a piece of software.

 

[paulkaye]

We have perhaps an odd way of doing things but for us, short-term clients who ask us to do a specific project will always have copyright transferred to them in writing. This will be part of the cost of the project. Long-term clients who obviously get better rates will often phone us up for last minute things, little projects and other hard-to-define stuff. These clients are not automatically transferred copyright but instead have the option to purchase the copyright from us if the need should arise. This gives them the best rate as they can choose what to 'buy'. It also gives us more stability as we know it would be more difficult for these long-term clients to go elsewhere. In writing, it sounds quite backhanded (!) but our clients are completely aware of this and are happy to use this system as it saves them money.

What do you guys think of this way of operating?