The ridiculousness of P&P

[gibby]

Has anyone else found that customers who email & complain about courier/pnp costs are usually a pain to deal with?

We had a customer who wanted to buy a very light item x 20 @ 5g each but didnt want to pay the full courier costs.
So several emails went back n forth & we went to all the hassle of going to our post office after packing it.

Next day he emails as it hasn't arrived & then emails every hour until he gets a response.
The following day he emails yet again to say its arrived.
A phone call is then made as the item only has a 6 month best before date & he dosen't use them that quickly & wants to return half of them & requests that we pay the return costs.

I can see why most firms stick to a courier, its easier to track & takes up less time.
Im also surprised that an online store would handle such a small order as mentioned, as there will be no profit in it with the time taken.

G

 

[sysops]

How about, you go to fill your car up with petrol and the sign outside says £1.10 a ltr but when you get to the pump the small print says "plus £3.99 for use of our pump"




isnt that annoying?

You seem very keen to tell us how annoying it is to have to pay for P&P, but you have failed to propose an alternative.

Given the absence of teleportation devices in every home, how do you suggest we get goods to customers?

 

[8420PR]

Free Delivery above or below a certain amount:

Offering free P&P on orders below a certain amount seems rather foolish - I used to do it the other way! Spend over £40 and get free delivery.

Totally agree. As a consumer I always look for the cheapest total cost, and when looking for certain items I need now (e.g. envelopes) will also buy other items that I may need in the future (e.g. printer labels) to ensure free delivery. This is the behaviour I want to drive in my customers as well.

 

[Silverlight]

I used to run a little ebay thing, and put my prices at £6 P&P to avoid ebay charges and 99p item cost.

In the end I gave up because I was tired of negative ratings for my 'high' postage costs. No one seemed to want to know why I was doing it, just that the the P&P was too much, but not too much that they wouldn't buy it but then complain after.

As a tradesman I encounter similar attitudes. Like I've bought all the components, can you come do the job for (good as free)? They then throw a hissy fit when I tell them to jog on and you're a rip-off tradesman because you expect to be paid for your time.

It takes time as well as consumables to post something, and time is money.

 

[saxondale]

You seem very keen to tell us how annoying it is to have to pay for P&P, but you have failed to propose an alternative.

Given the absence of teleportation devices in every home, how do you suggest we get goods to customers?

nope, just railing against misleading price promotions.



where does this "I have a right to sell at any price" come from?







.

 

[sysops]

nope, just railing against misleading price promotions.

It's not misleading to say that each item costs £1 and delivery costs £5. It's clear, and far more honest than putting up the item price and setting delivery at zero.

where does this "I have a right to sell at any price" come from?

Are you a communist? That experiment failed horribly you know.

I have the right to offer items for sale at whatever price I wish, and potential customers have a right to buy or not buy. Believe it.







.[/quote]

 

[kevin555]

where does this "I have a right to sell at any price" come from?

So much for the free market. Next you'll be wanting to tell us what price we should charge and then what price P&P should be.

No doubt, you'd appreciate if someone told you how to run your business.

Too many times I've seen fly-by-nights offering Free P&P on £5 items and too many times when I go back a year later they are no longer in business.

 

[saxondale]

It's not misleading to say that each item costs £1 and delivery costs £5. It's clear, and far more honest than putting up the item price and setting delivery at zero.

your simply wrong, rather than go over it all again I`ll post the saliant bits

"how much is your cheapest item?"

"£0.69"

"I`ll have one of those"

"sorry, you can`t - thats £4.68 then please...."



see?

Are you a communist? That experiment failed horribly you know.

I have the right to offer items for sale at whatever price I wish, and potential customers have a right to buy or not buy. Believe it.

I give up, I really do - Tradingpost can explain it to you










.

 

[sysops]

I give up, I really do - Tradingpost can explain it to you

Do you actually run a business?

 

[kevin555]

How can it be misleading?

It's as plain as the nose on your face. It will cost this much plus P&P.

With P&P clearly identified on site (with link to it so customer doesn't have to waste time going through complete checkout process etc).

------------------

If you included the P&P into the price you would end up charging discounts for bulk buying anyway.

1 = £5
Buy 2 for £6
Buy 10 for £14

Gets very confusing offering so many prices.

And expensive if you buy 2 different products, you'd end up paying 2 sets of built-in delivery charges.

Which system is fairer?

 

[Call Assistant UK]

Well, as I started it I thought I should participate.

I agree wholly with Trading Post. I didn't like the minimum P&P charge, so as a consumer, I had the right to go else where, and I did.

Obviously some people are getting more wound up by this than I even thought possible, but then I don't deal in P&P so maybe if 'the shoe was on the other foot' then I may agree entirely with the P&P charges, but my business doesn't use it, so I haven't even considered it.

Though, I will be sending a customer a new phone, but I don't intend to charge for it for the simple reason, I have the original box the phone came in, and the rest of the packaging, I have a post office down the stairs from me and I don't see it as time consuming task, but my business doesn't depend on this, so I can afford to do it, and the fact the customer wanted a fixed term contract of 12 months, I am guaranteed a healthy spend from her.

We are small enough to react to something like, but from a commercial point of view, I agree it would cost a larger company more to charge less.

 

[sysops]

Though, I will be sending a customer a new phone, but I don't intend to charge for it for the simple reason, I have the original box the phone came in, and the rest of the packaging, I have a post office down the stairs from me and I don't see it as time consuming task, but my business doesn't depend on this, so I can afford to do it, and the fact the customer wanted a fixed term contract of 12 months, I am guaranteed a healthy spend from her.

We are small enough to react to something like, but from a commercial point of view, I agree it would cost a larger company more to charge less.

That's not even a comparison.

When you send out a couple of hundred phones a day, things look very different. Every month you have a sizable invoice for the boxes, the tape, the airbags, and to postage. You also have two or three warehouse salaries to pay. This money has to come from somewhere.

 

[Call Assistant UK]

Sorry Sysops, I thought I made it clear in my post that I agreed that larger companies who do it regularly can't do what I intend to do....maybe you just lost that bit, you know the bit I agreed with your stance.

 

[sysops]

Yes, yes I did... ;-)

 

[Tej]

That's not even a comparison.

When you send out a couple of hundred phones a day, things look very different. Every month you have a sizable invoice for the boxes, the tape, the airbags, and to postage. You also have two or three warehouse salaries to pay. This money has to come from somewhere.

100% right Sysops.

Problem is.. there are a lot of "companies" that don't have a clue what their overheads are!!.. and then wonder why they ain't got any money at the year end!

 

[dynamic08]

and there will be new companies to take over from them we have to live with that.

What annoys me more is the ebayers. We are around 75% cheaper than everyone else and they want discount on postage if they buy 2. We tell them no we are alot cheaper than everybody else we have to make some profit and they buy anyway.

On our website we typically sell products at £9.99 - postage is £1.29 for orders under £10.00 is that bad?

No because orders over £10.00 get sent out free and people then see that if they buy 2 packs they will get them for £18.99 plus free shipping.

 

[visagephoto]

I normally don't have a problem with P&P charges, providing the costs are clearly visible during the order process, I can then decide whether to buy or not without wasting too much time.

However recently I was looking for some replacement labels for a Brother (label) printer, and the best price I could find was from Amazon (sold through a reseller) £4.50 per roll of 480 plus £4.00 P&P, at that price I was tempted to order ten, however as I hadn't purchased from this company before I restricted my order to just four. when I reached the payment process I discovered I had to pay £4.00 P&P for each roll, despite the fact that they all came packed in the same small box, had I purchased ten units it would have cost me £40 to have them delivered.

Would I order from this company again? yes I'm afraid I would as even with the excessive postage they were still around half price compared to most other suppliers, However I would have preferred it if they charged a reasonable price per unit on the product pages, and then a P&P charge per order.

 

[dynamic08]

At the end of the day its like comparing pears with apples.

Look at what what the final figure is thats what the item is costing you. Stop moaning about excessive p+p costs.

You all go and complain about these companies on the internet charging high p+p costs but how about mentioning that they are the cheapest you could find on the actual product price.

 

[visagephoto]

At the end of the day its like comparing pears with apples.

Look at what what the final figure is thats what the item is costing you. Stop moaning about excessive p+p costs.

You all go and complain about these companies on the internet charging high p+p costs but how about mentioning that they are the cheapest you could find on the actual product price.

I'm sure I just did!

Would I order from this company again? yes I'm afraid I would as even with the excessive postage they were still around half price compared to most other suppliers, However I would have preferred it if they charged a reasonable price per unit on the product pages, and then a P&P charge per order.

 

[Faith28]

I'm surprised at some of the responses here.

At the end of the day - a good business will be transparent and realistic with its costs. So I completely agree with sysops opinion. He sounds like a business man who recognises that to actually offer the item for sale in the first place to the customer there will be certain fixed costs that have to be met regardless of the size of the order. This is the business side.

As a customer I recognise that the price I see WILL have delivery charges regardless of the site I buy from (if its online). As long as it's clear from the site what these charges are and I accept it then voila! A transaction.

 

[saxondale]

I'm surprised at some of the responses here.

At the end of the day - a good business will be transparent and realistic with its costs. So I completely agree with sysops opinion.

did I miss the road to Damascus moment? - last time I looked sysops stated his lowest price item was £3.99 less than he actually charged for it.

 

[sysops]

did I miss the road to Damascus moment? - last time I looked sysops stated his lowest price item was £3.99 less than he actually charged for it.

Oh do stop being a tit.

Our average order value is around £28, so the price of our cheapest product is totally irrelevant.

 

[Faith28]

did I miss the road to Damascus moment? - last time I looked sysops stated his lowest price item was £3.99 less than he actually charged for it.

I assume you're not naive when it comes to prices quoted on practically all shopping websites. Since when do online sites include the cost of postage on their prices?

Please show me one that does.

And yes sysops lowest priced product excludes postage..it's not rocket science to work out what he means by lowest priced product.

 

[saxondale]

I assume you're not naive when it comes to prices quoted on practically all shopping websites. Since when do online sites include the cost of postage on their prices?

.

thats hardly, what was it you said, being "transparent" with costs. You (and Sysops) know it, I`ll refer you back to my petrol pump example.


face facts - if you had to advertise the actual cost to the consumer you would never get a sale, you simply relie on confusion, lethargy and online one upmanship (the pervers pleasure in paying more for an item)

 

[Faith28]

thats hardly, what was it you said, being "transparent" with costs. You (and Sysops) know it, I`ll refer you back to my petrol pump example.


face facts - if you had to advertise the actual cost to the consumer you would never get a sale, you simply relie on confusion, lethargy and online one upmanship (the pervers pleasure in paying more for an item)

I recommend a fantastic book for you..The Complete Complainer. It's available on Amazon from £10.20.. excludes P&P though I think P& P is free if you spend over £25.

 

[sysops]

thats hardly, what was it you said, being "transparent" with costs. You (and Sysops) know it, I`ll refer you back to my petrol pump example.


face facts - if you had to advertise the actual cost to the consumer you would never get a sale, you simply relie on confusion, lethargy and online one upmanship (the pervers pleasure in paying more for an item)

This is complete nonsense, if you really believe what you have written above then your understanding of ecommerce is almost non-existent.

Transparency is very important to us. We make the delivery charges very clear, and very easy to find.

The 'set delivery charge' model is used by 90%+ of the large online retailers. Most of them have a set delivery charge of £3-£5.

Some offer 'free' delivery, where the delivery cost is built into the product cost. This is not a good model for us, because most of our orders (85%) are made up of more than one item. Because of this, it makes more sense to offer the items at a lower price with a set P&P per order.

The proof is in the eating, our system works well, we make money and our customers keep coming back.

 

[saxondale]

I recommend a fantastic book for you..The Complete Complainer. It's available on Amazon from £10.20.. excludes P&P though I think P& P is free if you spend over £25.

the next system we install, as the customer hands over the cheque I shall announce proudly

"but giving you the code will cost an extra £99.00 ..........."

 

[saxondale]

This is complete nonsense, if you really believe what you have written above then your understanding of ecommerce is almost non-existent.

Transparency is very important to us. We make the delivery charges very clear, and very easy to find.

The 'set delivery charge' model is used by 90%+ of the large online retailers. Most of them have a set delivery charge of £3-£5.

Some offer 'free' delivery, where the delivery cost is built into the product cost. This is not a good model for us, because most of our orders (85%) are made up of more than one item. Because of this, it makes more sense to offer the items at a lower price with a set P&P per order.

The proof is in the eating, our system works well, we make money and our customers keep coming back.

I asked you a sample (even simple) question - you mislead with your reply, the rest of the topic is you trying to justify your actions.

 

[sysops]

I asked you a sample (even simple) question - you mislead with your reply, the rest of the topic is you trying to justify your actions.

WTF?

What are you on?

 

[Faith28]

I asked you a sample (even simple) question - you mislead with your reply, the rest of the topic is you trying to justify your actions.

Do you believe a company like Amazon misleads too since they have prices displayed as the cost to the customer but it IS NOT the price you end up paying to get it.

I'm curious to know if you believe all online websites are deceptive. Very strange to think they mislead the customer if you do think that. But each to their own.

 

[Lee Jones Jnr]

In conclusion - anyone complaining about paying post and packaging costs when they are clearly displayed is a fool. Buy or don't buy, but certainly don't moan and complain.

 

[dynamic08]

mmm [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,arial]visagephoto[/FONT] nope actually what you did was to start a thread titled The ridiculousness of P&P

maybe you should have titled it... I just found an amazing deal cheapest on the internet!

 

[visagephoto]

mmm [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,arial]visagephoto[/FONT] nope actually what you did was to start a thread titled The ridiculousness of P&P

maybe you should have titled it... I just found an amazing deal cheapest on the internet!

I'm afraid you're wrong. I didn't start this thread I simply replied with a post stating that . . .

I just found an amazing deal cheapest on the internet!

Please pay attention at the back

 

[dynamic08]

Indeed I am! its playing with this new blackberry which is confusing me! On that note I think the trading post sums this thread up nicely.

 

[SneakSMS]

the next system we install, as the customer hands over the cheque I shall announce proudly

"but giving you the code will cost an extra £99.00 ..........."

Both this and your other remark about the petrol pump are irrelevant, unless you're really trying to be a tit.

Petrol pump example - beyond the depreciation in the value of the pump, wear and tear on concrete and a few other absolutely minor costs, the retailer is not having to pay any extra for the delivering the fuel to you.

Same with your next system. What additional cost will you incur from giving the code over? Almost none.

I assume you're older than I am? You could act it.

 

[lss]

totally puts me off ordering from any comapny no matter what they sell if they take liberties with P&P charges

 

[SparkCreative]

'Taking the P&P"

 

[Liybpg]

it annoys me when the costs are hidden - you choose products, compare costs, proceed to checkout and there's some ridiculous delivery charge. If I see that - usually I press the cross in the top right corner straight away.

On ebay on the other hand, you can see delivery charges while choosing the product, you can even sort products my their "cost+p&p", which is very useful.

I don't mind paying for delivery when it is fair. but when a company only displays it's costs at the end, it sometimes just seems like trickery

 

[1-4-me]

Personally I think all websites should clearly state all P & P charges on their front page. These charges should not be hidden away. People then have the choice if the wish to buy from the aforesaid company or shop around.