The farce that is HS2

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  • #1
    So anyone got any proof that HS2 is going to benifit the country.:|

    We now subsidise the railways by a factor of 10 times the amount when the railways were in public ownership.

    A tiny proportion of goods travel by rail.

    Fares have gone through the roof since privatisation.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21056703


    Please tell me who is going to benefit from HS2 apart from maybe the contractors building the white elephant.:eek:
     
    M

    Merchant UK

  • #2
    sirearl said:
    So anyone got any proof that HS2 is going to benifit the country.:|

    We now subsidise the railways by a factor of 10 times the amount when the railways were in public ownership.

    A tiny proportion of goods travel by rail.

    Fares have gone through the roof since privatisation.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21056703


    Please tell me who is going to benefit from HS2 apart from maybe the contractors building the white elephant.:eek:
    Click to expand...

    This is the problem we seem to have in this country, we come up with some crackpot ideas and an estimate thats always a few billion pounds under budget and were always lucky if it comes to competition without one or two of the major contractors going bust.

    What they should of done instead of this was to do some smaller projects and then connect them all up at a later stage, that way they can manage a sizable chunk of what needs to be done as opposing to doing something that went over their heads.

    Look at the Millenium Dome and the Billions poured into it by Lionel Blair and his bunch of fruitcakes, They even took Millions from the Lottery on the promise that it was for the people and the country. They sold it to a japanese company in the end for £1 :mad:

    Has the Taxpayer had any return from it at all??

    Same thing will happen with this, Theres going to be a lot of new millionaires created from Directors of companies to shareholders, and yet they will still get millions more from the taxpayer to finish the project
     
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    japancool

    japancool

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  • #3
    High speed rail in itself is a good idea. The Shinkansen in Japan has brought significant economic benefit to the cities along its route.

    The problem is twofold.

    One, the way we go about projects like this in this country means that everyone and their dog has to be consulted, it has to go through multiple judicial reviews and all the rest of the nonsense before they even get started. In Asia, they just get on and do it. Sure, in Britain, it means that everyone down to Granny Smith gets their say, but it adds billions to the cost to satisfy a few people's concerns about birds or some sheep getting scared.

    The second problem is interlinks. It's all very well being able to get from Manchester to London faster, but once you've got to whichever main line station you're trying to get to, what then? You're then stuck with local and regional trains that run once every two hours, or busses, or the District Line being out of service yet again. It's easier to drive, or even fly.

    Railways in this country are a joke anyway. The West Coast Virgin train always seems to be packed with people sitting in the vestibules (what's stopping them from either running more trains or at least longer trains?), the seats are so uncomfortable and cramped there's no chance of getting a bit of sleep, and there's a funny smell.
     
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    MikeJ

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  • #4
    sirearl said:
    We now subsidise the railways by a factor of 10 times the amount when the railways were in public ownership.
    Click to expand...

    From the link you provided....

    Total government subsidy for the railways increased from £2.17bn in 1992-93 to £2.59bn in 2002-03, according to figures from the Office of Rail Regulation. It peaked in 2006/07 at £6.3bn, before falling back to £3.9bn in 2011-12.

    That's not even double, let alone 10 times.
     
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  • #5
    MikeJ said:
    From the link you provided....

    Total government subsidy for the railways increased from £2.17bn in 1992-93 to £2.59bn in 2002-03, according to figures from the Office of Rail Regulation. It peaked in 2006/07 at £6.3bn, before falling back to £3.9bn in 2011-12.

    That's not even double, let alone 10 times.
    Click to expand...


    Creative accounting is a wonderfull invention.:)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18733308

    http://fullfact.org/factchecks/taxpayer_subsidy_train_network_nationalisation-3391
     
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    Vectis

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  • #8
    I can think of many better ways to spend £40 billion or £80 billion or whatever it turns out to be. Must admit I never realised we had that much spare money lying around.

    I can't see any real benefit to reduced journey times to Birmingham or Manchester either. If anything, it'll just draw in commuters to London from a wider area.
     
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  • #9
    Vectis said:
    I can't see any real benefit to reduced journey times to Birmingham or Manchester either. If anything, it'll just draw in commuters to London from a wider area.
    Click to expand...

    Quite I dread to think of the money wasted in people spending hours traveling to and from work.

    I can't see any many companies needing to have offices or works in major cities.:eek:
     
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    Davek0974

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  • #17
    pretty certain that whatever way you cut the figures, HS2 is a seriously big waste of an unknown amount of cash.

    Should possibly have been spent on improving existing services.

    HS1 hardly ever runs at HS speeds.

    HS2 is a political folly and will certainly line some pockets along the way at our expense (again)
     
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    Davek0974

    Davek0974

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  • #19
    No one will take any notice, the money is probably already promised via back-handers, pocket-lining and blind promises.

    So this unknown amount is for phase one? So we start to build that at £40bn it runs up to £70-80bn, then the country is even more bankrupt and we will never be able to afford to start phase two?

    It's sheer egotism by the politicians.
     
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    internetspaceships

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  • #21
    Davek0974 said:
    No one will take any notice, the money is probably already promised via back-handers, pocket-lining and blind promises.

    So this unknown amount is for phase one? So we start to build that at £40bn it runs up to £70-80bn, then the country is even more bankrupt and we will never be able to afford to start phase two?

    It's sheer egotism by the politicians.
    Click to expand...

    I've given up worrying Dave. I agree with you completely mate but now I don't care because I'm just going to make sure that me and mine are sorted out.

    Legally of course.
     
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    Nuno

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  • #26
    sirearl said:
    And if everyone does the same.:|:)
    Click to expand...

    Do gooders reach second best solutions at greater cost. People looking after themselves is the best way for everybody to act, with a small safety net for those who really need it.

    So: if everybody does the same we will all be better off.

    (Apart from namby, skank, goat-filling nanny-statist busybodies.):D:D
     
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  • #27
    Nuno said:
    Do gooders reach second best solutions at greater cost. People looking after themselves is the best way for everybody to act, :D:D
    Click to expand...

    Oh you think you are capable of looking after yourself.:|

    Not in a million years laddie.


    "Who trusted God was love indeed
    And love Creation's final law
    Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
    With ravine, shriek'd against his creed"

    :D:D:D:D AT
     
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    Nuno

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  • #28
    Well done Earl.

    Got the thread onto God bothering using an aristocratic poet from the reign of Queen Victoria. Nobody can accuse you of looking forwards huh?

    But it's touching that you think that a mixture of socialism, God and the aristocracy are the answer.

    Was it God who told you HS2 was an abomination? Or other voices?
     
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  • #29
    Nuno said:
    Well done Earl.

    Got the thread onto God bothering using an aristocratic poet from the reign of Queen Victoria. Nobody can accuse you of looking forwards huh?

    But it's touching that you think that a mixture of socialism, God and the aristocracy are the answer.

    Was it God who told you HS2 was an abomination? Or other voices?
    Click to expand...

    As usual missing the point deliberately I suspect.:p
     
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