The difference between Business morals and Litigation

[AddisonAB]

The difference between Business morals and Litigation

Hello All

Firstly i would like to welcome all and as many opinions on this matter as possible

The situation is this:

Currently i am in full time employment, i am a top performer in my Business sector an i am looking to make the step towards starting up alone, now my problem is not with the logistics, business model or market knowledge and awareness but more the fact that i am looking to run my start up out of office hours whilst still being employed

Now here is a key factor, morally i understand this may seem wrong but the way i see it is that if i take no resources, invest no time to my organization whilst in office hours and at no cost to my employer is this so wrong?

It will be in a way a competitor but as i am the only consultant working at my employer that is doing my market i do not see that i am taking any business from them that is not owed, i aim to continue to achieve high standards of work for the 10 month overlap i have planned and i feel the overall profit i have made the company out weighs the business developed in there field independently out of hours dramatically.

I have a standard employment contract that covers them for stolen resources i.e contacts , prior agreements and set deals etc and also the standard conflict of interest clauses but what i would like to know is if litigation is a serious factor that i should worry about.



I believe that for example

A quick-fit employee begins to do private work and sets a limited company and overlaps his work schedule to raise funds to go alone would they ever batter an eyelid if A.) he raises enough and leaves to set up or B.) gets caught (sacked) but never any litigation

Now in my business were are talking high margin sales in Banking software and it seems to be a fear installed in consultants to stop the growth of high preforming individuals...

What do you think

Thank you
Best Regards
Addison

 

[Faevilangel]

I would have a read of your employment contract as it would be in there whether they would you let you to set up another business as your employers without any repercussions.

 

[AddisonAB]

i understand that but to be honest i have been through it.

It indemnifies them against theft of time or resources and information but is this actionable if you have not stolen anything other than your free time and industry knowledge gained working there?

it seems it would be a flimsy case and unenforceable?

 

[TotallySport]

I agree with Faevilangel, employment contracts are there for a reason, and the higher up the employment ladder you go, the more and more they become enforcable.

There are good and bad ways of doing what your wanting to do, one option you might want to look at is setting up a business properly and getting your current employer to use your business instead of employing you directly, save them a few quid, and you have a business with a client and you have the freedom to expand and do what you want. (Don't get me wrong suggesting this could blow up in your face and they could sack you)

 

[TotallySport]

i understand that but to be honest i have been through it.

It indemnifies them against theft of time or resources and information but is this actionable if you have not stolen anything other than your free time and industry knowledge gained working there?

it seems it would be a flimsy case and unenforceable?

If you have signed a contract that says you won't go into competition for them and you do, they will sue the pants of you, at the very least drag it through the courts for as long as possible, stopping you from trading and racking up your legal bill until its resolved, they may not, but can you afford the risk?

 

[AddisonAB]

Valued opinion

I don't think that would work, only because it is a personally generated market and i believe they would just overreact

his is the dilemma Morally yes it is wrong in some ways but will it go to litigation if actionable

Thanks

 

[AddisonAB]

If you have signed a contract that says you won't go into competition for them and you do, they will sue the pants of you, at the very least drag it through the courts for as long as possible, stopping you from trading and racking up your legal bill until its resolved, they may not, but can you afford the risk?

At what cost to them, and there is no non competition clause, there is a conflict of interest and for this they will need proof of time stolen, information used etc

 

[CSBob]

The description you give of your role within the company suggests to me that they could not only fairly easily demonstrate significant loss to themselves as a result of your actions, and possibly for years ahead, but also be very likely to pursue this to its maximum extent.

I certainly would.

You're not just another lackey, after all, but a valuable company asset.

Instead, read that last sentence again and try to think of a different way to achieve your ambitions. If this were my company (I'm MD of a bespoke software company, btw), I would hope you'd come to me honestly and openly, and talk frankly about your options as you see them. Perhaps your employer could come up with a better option for both of you - I certainly could in his shoes.

 

[AddisonAB]

The description you give of your role within the company suggests to me that they could not only fairly easily demonstrate significant loss to themselves as a result of your actions, and possibly for years ahead, but also be very likely to pursue this to its maximum extent.

I certainly would.

You're not just another lackey, after all, but a valuable company asset.

Instead, read that last sentence again and try to think of a different way to achieve your ambitions. If this were my company (I'm MD of a bespoke software company, btw), I would hope you'd come to me honestly and openly, and talk frankly about your options as you see them. Perhaps your employer could come up with a better option for both of you - I certainly could in his shoes.

Hi Thanks for the opinion

I understand totally where you are coming from, the organization i work for is a large PLC with quite a corporate mentality in ethics and actions

The problem is that i do not have the personal relationships with anyone high enough to make those decisions, i have been left to my own devices for the past 3 years and with that i have the ability to run a company in the consulting practice..

I have the itch to do this, plans complete every outcome is accounted for. I have collateral but with mortgages etc i need an overlap of security or i just quit but then legitimately gardening leave would action my work contract for another 3 months anyway

I dont know, i know how confused.com was thought of though

 

[Dawg]

From the limited information, if they have a half way decent no competition clause in your contract of employment I would be surprised if they didn't sack you and sue you.
You need professional advice on this as it may cost you a lot if you go ahead and they come after you.

I would worry far less about the morality of it than the very real threat of serious, expensive litigation.

 

[TotallySport]

At what cost to them, and there is no non competition clause, there is a conflict of interest and for this they will need proof of time stolen, information used etc

There is doesn' need to be a compesation clause, that would determind by the court, base on your word agaist theres and all the proof you both submit, if you have signed a contracted saying you won't be incompetition for 6 months or whatever, they have you by the cirlies no matter what your doing, wether they decide to act on it is upto them.

Look at it this way, if you were the director of the business would you persue it? Based on the fact and old employee has lost you money, you had to find hire and train someone else, they went behind your back, there is a good chance they took your ideas (and you would think they have even if they haven't), and the list goes on.

TBH i think CSBob sumed it up very well.

At the end of the day you will make your own mind up, but be prepared to take the consiquences of your actions, regardless of whats happened to others in the past they are different events to different people, in different companies.

 

[CSBob]

Hi Thanks for the opinion

I understand totally where you are coming from, the organization i work for is a large PLC with quite a corporate mentality in ethics and actions

The problem is that i do not have the personal relationships with anyone high enough to make those decisions, i have been left to my own devices for the past 3 years and with that i have the ability to run a company in the consulting practice..

I have the itch to do this, plans complete every outcome is accounted for. I have collateral but with mortgages etc i need an overlap of security or i just quit but then legitimately gardening leave would action my work contract for another 3 months anyway

I dont know, i know how confused.com was thought of though

A large PLC. Hmm, that's a whole different ballgame. Ignore my earlier sentiments, they just don't translate to corporate culture - with occasional but quite rare exceptions, such as the Dixons drone who came up with the idea for Freeserve. They adopted his concept and it was eventually worth more than Dixons itself, and the Corporate Drone is himself now a millionnaire as they rather generously gave him a piece of the pie. It can happen!

But that's the exception to the rule, and you're probably correct in your assessment of the situation there.

I can't honestly offer a better option than what you've already considered. On the one hand I do believe (and even more so now) that you would be taking a very big risk pursuing this as you suggest, but I must also honestly say that it wouldn't stop me. Life is too short.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

 

[obscure]

...i do not see that i am taking any business from them that is not owed,

Sorry but this is a very weak justification. The company doesn't owe you. You provide a service to them and in return they pay you as per the contract you both agreed.

Starting a business is risky - you just want your current employer to provide a safety net for you. Setting up in competition with your employer while employed runs a real risk (if they find out) of them taking action. A big PLC won't weigh the cost of taking such action as they will view it as necessary to deter others from doing the same thing and also worth money given the business lost to you, their competitor.

 

[Billmccallum]

How could anyone with a brain not see that this "also the standard conflict of interest clauses" is the key element, even without a not-compete clause, this would give rise to any set-up of a competing business as a conflict of interest.

Best advice, wait until you have the funds to set-up, give notice, leave and then start your business.

 

[AddisonAB]

How could anyone with a brain not see that this "also the standard conflict of interest clauses" is the key element, even without a not-compete clause, this would give rise to any set-up of a competing business as a conflict of interest.

Best advice, wait until you have the funds to set-up, give notice, leave and then start your business.

Thanks for your opinion, having read through the contract today the conflict of interest clauses are so ambiguous, There is no specifics in terms of time frames or detrimental factors that the would factor in a conflict of interest apart from "Any action preventing future business to .....PLC"

That is a ridiculous and floored legal phrase if ever i have seen one

Let me bring you back to my point. Yes i can be prosecuted but would it happen in any other industry i.e the Building trade, Automotive mechanics etc No i don't think it would