The death of the High Street - Has it been exagerated?

[Financial-Modeller]

Take a leaf out of Asian shopping malls. Most of them have attached multi-story carparks - which have free parking.

Parking will change as car ownership moves to subscription / PAYG and cars become more smart/intelligent and autonomous.

Currently when we visit an out of town mall, we park several hundred meters from the point of purchase in a large car park with plenty of space for pedestrians to walk around safely and to load/unload shoppers and shopping.

It is pretty obvious that in future a car suited to the number of occupants will drop shoppers nearer to the shop, then drive itself to a garage in which it can be closely parked to other cars (without need to leave space to open doors etc) and recharged. When shopping is complete, a car suited to shoppers and their newly-bought shopping will be summoned as the purchase is completed and appear at the doorway/loading bay to take shoppers home.

 

[Irontoe]

That's the general idea, keep car drivers out.

Have enough people living above the shops and enough going on below them and you build small local communities who don't own cars.

The people that live over the shops will be by nature at the lower end of the income scale and not really conducive to a thriving high street.


Maybe giving more power to local councils or chambers of commerce to stop the proliferation of any one sort of business could help, although how you would stop that being abused I have no idea.
Our local high street has far too many estate agents, hairdressers, fast food outlets and charity shops. If you could replace half of those with niche or specialist shops I think the whole town would benefit.

 

[Mr D]

The High Street will survive, but I don’t think anyone can say for sure how just yet. With internet shopping, the sheer ease, comfort, consumer protections, and enormous stock advantages, that is definitely here to stay, Amazon have shown what is possible.

Free parking will be seen as hugely important moving forward, it takes away a huge annoyance for most, and introduces a much more relaxed experience. For physical stores in towns etc, the stock levels are the hard part, so many cannot afford to buy, stock or display enough anymore.

Free parking works - if there are enough spaces.
If there aren't then people can't find a space to park and end up going elsewhere.

 

[MarkOnline]

mmmm Looks like many contributors think that niche retailing is a good idea,, maybe it could give a shopping area some sort of unique identity. I suppose you have to start with some sort of vision and try and work it out from there. I suppose we could continue to fill the high street with the same old tat. I think affordable quality over lower marging tat has more of a chance going forward.

And God forbid, it might also create an environment where UK manufacturers can supply product to the domestic market. Who knows it might be the springboard to enable the same manufactures to export to other markets around the world

I dont think its a coincidence that online shopping volumes have increased substantially on the niche sites such as Etsy and Not On The High Street, and some of those under the radar type niche traders are making very decent numbers.

I suppose I could make an assesment based on some gut feeling, but I have found that the actual numbers are much more useful indicator of what does and doesnt work.

 

[Mr D]

Yes I have seen the wooden chalets at a christmas market. Big wooden cabins. And again problematic to display goods as compared to say a 500sq foot shop.
You not seen the old newspaper sellers in town centres with their small wooden cabins?

Cheap tat? Its what I sell among other things. Don't see a major problem selling it - despite the big boys. Sure, they can undercut me. I still sell.

Against a small business like mine the big businesses cannot react quickly and they have their weaknesses. I utilise a weakness amazon has to sell using the same supplier as them - and sell a fair bit.

You appear to want high streets with high turnover of shops rather than shops that remain there for many years.
Have never claimed the internet should be the only method of selling. However the customers will choose where they buy - and a chalet (which is not a small wooden hut that town centres usually have experienced) working 9 to 5 has many of the same problems as the high street already does. Just you want to put the stock into smaller facilities! A solution looking for a problem - certainly isn't a solution the high street needs.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Our council cannot even manage a market that's been there for hundreds of years, in 1973 when i first came to the town the market consisted of maybe 150 stalls twice a week, now about 20 due to increased rents ( it must pay its way with expensive management staff etc). and yet they want a grant to sort out the main shopping area and get shoppers back ignoring their past failures and seemingly knowing nothing about retail and what its requirements are for success

 

[MBE2017]

Our council cannot even manage a market that's been there for hundreds of years, in 1973 when i first came to the town the market consisted of maybe 150 stalls twice a week, now about 20 due to increased rents ( it must pay its way with expensive management staff etc). and yet they want a grant to sort out the main shopping area and get shoppers back ignoring their past failures and seemingly knowing nothing about retail and what its requirements are for success

My local council would take some beating regarding our market place, one of the best in England IMO. Many years ago they decided the hard wearing roman cobbles should be replaced by flat paver bricks, but they forget with a slope to re-install the drainage, so any heavy rain causes a minor flood wave at the bottom of the market. Instead of having a traditional highly successful three day market, they wanted more rent, and so started six day trading. As a result of lack of business, they made Tuesday a secondhand day, little more than a boot fair, it was meant to be antiques and collectibles.

None of these disastrous ideas mattered though, since our Council with its glorious leaders real plan was to get rid of a successful market, and replace it with their dream, a cafe culture of hundreds eating outside. The only problem they seemed to forget was the large, regular amounts of rain, cold and wind, meaning apart from approx 1 month a year all your beverages and food tend to get cold within ten minutes of arriving.

Due to another policy of unrestricted pubs being allowed in the area, all the tramps and drunks tend to sit around the edge of the market on the Council funded benches, falling asleep drunk, not even stirring to go to the nearby toilets.

After ten years trying to explain some of their bad planning decisions, it became obvious at the market trader meetings they had no interest in retaining the market since it now runs at a huge defeceit.

 

[antropy]

Easy way to fix the high street - ban all online sales.

We all know that will never ever happen, especially with Covid. Online sales have never been higher! Alex

 

[japancool]

I haven't been to our local market since it was gentrified. Used to get all sorts of stuff there. I hear it's largely cafes and eateries now.

 

[The Byre]

Our local high street has far too many estate agents, hairdressers, fast food outlets and charity shops. If you could replace half of those with niche or specialist shops I think the whole town would benefit.

Niche shops selling what?

If I knew of some magic niche that is so damn profitable that it would sustain a High Street shop, I would rush out and seek to fulfill that nice - except that I would not be so stupid as to do that on the High Street! I am not a charity for property owners and town councils and their wasteful ways, so I would only seek to sell into any niche online.

Our council cannot even manage a market that's been there for hundreds of years, in 1973 when i first came to the town the market consisted of maybe 150 stalls twice a week, now about 20 due to increased rents ( it must pay its way with expensive management staff etc). and yet they want a grant to sort out the main shopping area and get shoppers back ignoring their past failures and seemingly knowing nothing about retail and what its requirements are for success

Nothing about town councils and the wholesale idiocy of counselors surprises me.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Niche shops selling what?

There are specialist shops that attract visitors from a wide area but they are few and far between. The problem. I believe, is not the fact that such businesses could sustain a High Street it is the fact that few people starting a business aspire to be such or be willing to do the hard work required to become experts in their niche.

 

[japancool]

Niche shops selling what?

Like the Tintin shop in London.

 

[Mr D]

Niche shops selling what?

If I knew of some magic niche that is so damn profitable that it would sustain a High Street shop, I would rush out and seek to fulfill that nice - except that I would not be so stupid as to do that on the High Street! I am not a charity for property owners and town councils and their wasteful ways, so I would only seek to sell into any niche online.

Nothing about town councils and the wholesale idiocy of counselors surprises me.

Indeed - a niche is better served online if that is a way of limiting costs.
Run from spare bedroom, more profitable than running from a high street shop where you start with £20k debt to pay (rent and rates) each year.

 

[MarkOnline]

Niche shops selling what?

If I knew of some magic niche that is so damn profitable that it would sustain a High Street shop, I would rush out and seek to fulfill that nice - except that I would not be so stupid as to do that on the High Street! I am not a charity for property owners and town councils and their wasteful ways, so I would only seek to sell into any niche online.

Nothing about town councils and the wholesale idiocy of counselors surprises me.

There are some lines that could be volume selling products but the economics of online selling doesnt support that particular product. Namely a high postage price(for arguments sake £2.80) on a product thats price point is say £3.95 That line would work on the high street.

 

[Mr D]

There are some lines that could be volume selling products but the economics of online selling doesnt support that particular product. Namely a high postage price(for arguments sake £2.80) on a product thats price point is say £3.95 That line would work on the high street.

And yet there are lots of us selling at higher prices than the product would otherwise be despite the shipping cost. Why is that?
Could it be the customer wants the item and is willing to pay for the shipping?

Those instead wanting to go to a physical shop that has thousands or tens of thousands extra costs to factor into pricing in order to buy that product, quite possibly spending more to travel and park than postage would be - then they will of course buy as they wish.

There is room for both online and offline selling.

Oh, and I charge the same prices offline as I do online. Including building that postage cost into the pricing.

 

[Newchodge]

With internet shopping, the sheer ease, comfort, consumer protections, and enormous stock advantages, that is definitely here to stay, Amazon have shown what is possible.

^^This^^

A short while ago I was thinking about storing my new saucepans in a small kitchen without much space. I thought it would be a good idea if i could stack them inside each other without damaging the interior or exterior surface. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have some kind of liner that sits between each saucepan. Searched on line, bought a pack through Amazon. I don't recall ever seeing these in a shop and I could not even think which shop to try. No shop can easily compete with that kind of convenience.

 

[MarkOnline]

And yet there are lots of us selling at higher prices than the product would otherwise be despite the shipping cost. Why is that?
Could it be the customer wants the item and is willing to pay for the shipping?

Those instead wanting to go to a physical shop that has thousands or tens of thousands extra costs to factor into pricing in order to buy that product, quite possibly spending more to travel and park than postage would be - then they will of course buy as they wish.

There is room for both online and offline selling.

Oh, and I charge the same prices offline as I do online. Including building that postage cost into the pricing.

You work how you work, the margin doesnt work for us. We have a 5,000sq ft factory with modern automated machinery. We design and manufacture what we sell, we have 11 people to pay every week. Im not wasting resources on supplying a product which at best will return us 15-20% when we can manufacture a range of products which sells at £8-£14 and 60p postage (and sometimes we send out 2 for the same cost) I believe in a return on the total amount of capital required to fulfil an order that includes the money risked on the postage. And we are more expensive then most of our competitors too.

You talk like you know all the answers, if only you knew. As I have said previously, there are many smarter than we are, but I dont count you amongst them.

 

[DontAsk]

The people that live over the shops will be by nature at the lower end of the income scale and not really conducive to a thriving high street.

That's a very biggoted view of people who might live over shops.

 

[Mr D]

You work how you work, the margin doesnt work for us. We have a 5,000sq ft factory with modern automated machinery. We design and manufacture what we sell, we have 11 people to pay every week. Im not wasting resources on supplying a product which at best will return us 15-20% when we can manufacture a range of products which sells at £8-£14 and 60p postage (and sometimes we send out 2 for the same cost) I believe in a return on the total amount of capital required to fulfil an order that includes the money risked on the postage. And we are more expensive then most of our competitors too.

You talk like you know all the answers, if only you knew. As I have said previously, there are many smarter than we are, but I dont count you amongst them.

And maybe one day you will play with the adults. I have two items produced, cheapest is four figures the more expensive is five.
A few minutes a day work now - and well over a decade getting that set up. Outsourcing can work well with good enough people. None of this expensive warehouse or expensive equipment problems. Simply production, selling, shipping.
And me glancing at the figures.

Risking money on postage? You have a strange idea about risk.
Buyers pay the postage. If we get a few returns a year then so be it - rare but it does happen. Returns are factored into pricing the same way wages, fuel, insurance, accountant and so on are.
Worked out and factored into pricing.

Statistically the risk in postage is going to be around a fiver a year. Likely that will go up this year but not finished refining Christmas plans yet.

Agree there are many smarter than I am. Have never suggested otherwise - heck I know some of the smarter people! Was at school with some of them.
However I am smart. That I do know. Whereas you appear to know little outside your own bubble.

 

[Mr D]

That's a very biggoted view of people who might live over shops.

Also suggests that above shops is low rent area.
Maybe some will be. Others will be high rent.
A friend lived above some shops, rent of 720 on a 3 bed flat. In comparison a 3 bed semi a couple of miles away was just over 500.

 

[MarkOnline]

I am starting a new thread for my reply, this is derailing the OP's post.

 

[Irontoe]

Niche shops selling what?

If I knew of some magic niche that is so damn profitable that it would sustain a High Street shop, I would rush out and seek to fulfill that nice - except that I would not be so stupid as to do that on the High Street! I am not a charity for property owners and town councils and their wasteful ways, so I would only seek to sell into any niche online.

Maybe niche was the wrong word. Maybe 'variation' would have been a better one. No one really wants to go to a high street full of up of estate agents, charity shops and hairdressers, a few of each fit the purpose, fill up others with a decent deli, or a butchers, two or three clothes shops etc.

I'm basing my musings on the high streets local to me, you may be fortunate enough to live near a mixed and varied shopping destination, unfortunately I can only see vast room for improvement in my location!

 

[Irontoe]

That's a very biggoted view of people who might live over shops.

Maybe I'm thinking of it from a small town perspective, I'm sure those flats in cities are anything but for the lower incomes.
My council seems to think that moving out established social clubs, health centres, council offices and sports amenities from our town and replacing them with low cost starter homes and flats will reinvigorate our centre. I can't see those placed in flats by the council from their housing list bringing too much affluence to the town centre.