The customer is always right - sometimes

[Noah]

Looking for an objective perspective on a customer service problem. Currently in a tussle with a customer who damaged goods after accepting delivery, and refuses to pay for them (two sides to the story, of course).

Damage occurred during moving of stock, and customer says we should have not put stock where we did (as explicitly instructed by customer at the time), and anyway it was packaged incorrectly, and it's not happened before in 27 years, and we shouldn't deliver at that time because they are busy, and by the way we should leave a copy delivery note AS WELL AS paper invoice with each delivery and we KNOW that's how it has to be done, and they never have a problem with anybody else... - the usual defensive barrage.

We've been dealing with this customer for 7+ years, occasional orders, not that significant to lose them, but one hates to let anyone go.

As a one-off, actual value of loss is insignificant to both parties, but it's the principle of the thing for the customer, and for us the issue of setting a precedent and not allowing customers to take advantage. If we do accept responsibility, we will have to acknowledge their associated unreasonable requests which will make deliveries to them in the future more awkward and expensive for us.

I am fairly confident we are in the right, although there are a few elements to the customer's argument that weaken our case; however, it struck me that our business is selling product, not being right, and in this sort of case we should just write off the loss and carry on, albeit with greater caution in handling this specific customer - and refreshing a few lessons on delivery practices too.

Anybody care to share their opinion?

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

If the goods were delivered and were in "good condition" upon delivery, the customer damaged them then it is their issue not yours... whether or not the goods were placed in the correct position or not, you were delivering them, not checking them off nor merchandising the products.

With regards to the invoice/delivery note... if this is your normal practice, then fine - but if your invoice is posted or emailed at a later date as standard then this is what you do... these are your terms and conditions that you adhere to not the other way around... We've got a customer who's placed a £4000 + order and have stated that they pay on 45 days, our reply was quite simple... by accepting our quotation you are accepting OUR terms and conditions of 30 days payment upon invoice.

With regards to the customer being right... this is not always the case, as long as you've done everything in your best possible interests to provide a service/product and provide a back up if something goes wrong, such as a refund or even replacement products then you've done everything you can do to provide the customer with a service.

Example:

Had an old dear contact us asking for additional security products for all of her windows... the engineer went down to have a look, we quoted for a specific product that we felt was adequate for the job, she said that she would prefer replacement handles with key locking (which she already had mind you, just had misplaced her keys)... we suggested we could provide them all keyed alike so as not to cause any issues in the future as the keys were readily available... like ALL window locks from specific suppliers... she said she would prefer different keys for each window... so we obliged, quoted her and she accepted.

2 days later the engineer went to install, swapped out all 12 of the window handles on her property gave her all the keys and she was annoyed with how many keys there actually was!

2 days later she's on the phone saying that our work was shoddy, all the handles had come off, so the Director went around and inspected the engineers work, took photo's and said we'd get back to her later that afternoon. As he sat outside on the phone to me, he saw out of the corner of his eye the old dear literately Ragging... and I mean RAGGING at the side window (the only window that wasn't affected by our "shoddy" work... so, he went and knocked on the door and asked if he could have a quick word as he had seen her "struggling" with the window.

Turned out, because she couldn't reach the window handles properly, this was how she opened all of her windows, by pulling down and shaking them!... the Director explained that this wasn't the way to open a window as the windows had a mechanism inside and this would cause damage to the mechanisms, she told him to Pee off and get out of her house and that she was reporting us to Trading Standards.

Upon arriving back at the shop, we contacted Trading Standards ourselves, gave all the information that we could and at the end of it all they said to us that this woman was well known with Trading Standards and that she did this quite regular!

So, we arranged to give her a full refund (as discussed with Trading Standards) and everything would be fine.

No word of a lie... the next Locksmith who spoke with her, actually contacted us to tell us that she was calling our good company name (we know the guy personally!) he put on the exact same product that we originally suggested in the first place and "she loved them!"

 

[estwig]

Having strong principles in business can be expensive, I've learned this the hard way, equally expensive can be bending to the unreasonable requests of a client, especially if those requests disrupt a system you have.

Compromise is king, take a hit on the damaged goods which shows good will, explain it is a one off, freak occurrence and greater care will be taken in future, but your systems cannot be bent, to accommodate one occurrence. If the client doesn't see this as reasonable, then do you want an unreasonable client, perhaps not.

 

[DavidWH]

Regardless of what you decide, you need to prevent it occurring again in the future.

Do you start to just make deliveries to the door... I had a delivery of 12 boxes arrive last week, the courier just dropped them at the door, it's not his job to carry them into our premises and stack them out of the way.

When we have pallets arrive, they drop them inside the roller door, they don't go stacking it where I ask.

I sign the delivery note that the delivery was received and in good condition... what happens beyond that is of no concern to the delivery driver.

but your systems cannot be bent

We're forever changing how we operate, just cover our backsides... we implement processes to reduce the risk, and the one time we let it lapse we get bitten on our backside and remember why we started doing it in the first place.

 

[Gecko001]

Having strong principles in business can be expensive, I've learned this the hard way, equally expensive can be bending to the unreasonable requests of a client, especially if those requests disrupt a system you have.

Compromise is king, take a hit on the damaged goods which shows good will, explain it is a one off, freak occurrence and greater care will be taken in future, but your systems cannot be bent, to accommodate one occurrence. If the client doesn't see this as reasonable, then do you want an unreasonable client, perhaps not.

Not only does it show good will, if you actually state that the payment to the customer is a "goodwill gesture" in your correspondence that means in law that you do not accept that you are at fault.

 

[estwig]

Not only does it show good will, if you actually state that the payment to the customer is a "goodwill gesture" in your correspondence that means in law that you do not accept that you are at fault.

Really? That's very interesting, a useful thing to have in your armory!

 

[estwig]

Regardless of what you decide, you need to prevent it occurring again in the future.

I'd completely disagree with that. Being in business is about making money, not keeping customers happy. If making changes to the way you operate to try and prevent one thing from happening again is too onerous, then it may be better to accept that 'the thing' may happen again. Everything needs to be considered in context and with balance.

 

[obscure]

Anybody care to share their opinion?

The customer damaged the goods and then stated it was because you put them where they asked you to place them.

To keep them as a client you will likely have to accept responsibility for their actions (refund) and then accept a bunch of awkward and potentially more expensive restrictions?

Do they send particularly nice Christmas cards? If not I'm struggling to understand why you would want them as a client.

 

[Gecko001]

Really? That's very interesting, a useful thing to have in your armory!

The downside of offering a goodwill gesture, is the customer can still take you to court if they think that they can get more money or if they want to prove a point. It is not the same as "full and final settlement"

 

[Deleted member 59730]

My response to complaining customers is to tell them I've fired the person responsible. I've never yet had them not reverse the complaint and plead with me not to fire my employee.

 

[THS Jones]

Sometimes the customer is right, but in a lot cases they aren't. In our experience we have had to change our handling of customer orders so that we have less come backs.

 

[Noah]

Do they send particularly nice Christmas cards? If not I'm struggling to understand why you would want them as a client.

It's the usual case of balancing cost, benefit, and risk. Without clients (actually business-to-business customers) we don't have a business. No customer is perfect - but nor are we.

We certainly have "fired" customers - but we usually give them some rope; our reality is that, if we took a zero-tolerance approach to customers buggering us about, we'd be out of business.

 

[Noah]

My response to complaining customers is to tell them I've fired the person responsible. I've never yet had them not reverse the complaint and plead with me not to fire my employee.

I'm running out of employees...

 

[Noah]

The customer damaged the goods and then stated it was because you put them where they asked you to place them.

It's worse than that : they're saying our delivery man placed them on his own initiative without consulting them, so either the receiver or the delivery man is lying. I know whom I believe.

 

[serendipitybusiness]

I personally would (if possible)

a) Take a hit on the damaged stock on this one occasion but explain that based on c, damaged caused by moving the stock, after delivery, in the future will not be covered by yourselves.

b) Explain shipping notes are supplied with the package and invoices are emailed (or what ever you do for data privacy as a standard practice)

c) Explain that the terms they want for delivery ie special time/special delivery requirements are available but can only be done via a specialised courier at an additional cost. Give them the choice and let them own that choice. If it is that important to them they will pay the extra but I am guessing they will probably accept the norm.

 

[Anderz]

Refund and as it seems update the delivery and other terms regarding it for the future so the problem does not happen again.

 

[Ken Moorhouse]

Where you have this kind of problem. Move forward by:-

Taking photos of each delivery to this customer. (Icing on the cake is to get the driver to email the photos to your office).

If they have CCTV and goods are damaged, ask the customer to look at the footage which shows your driver delivering the goods, taking the photo(s), and being signed for. It won't stop outright dishonesty but there's a lot to be said for contemporaneous record-keeping, as it shows you take a dim view of bullsh*t.

You can of course skip this once mutual trust has been rebuilt.

 

[DavidWH]

I'd completely disagree with that. Being in business is about making money, not keeping customers happy. If making changes to the way you operate to try and prevent one thing from happening again is too onerous, then it may be better to accept that 'the thing' may happen again. Everything needs to be considered in context and with balance.

Yes and dishing out refunds, writing off damaged stock, on every complaint from every chancer isn't good business.

Read the OP

a customer who damaged goods after accepting delivery,

Damage occurred during moving of stock, and customer says we should have not put stock where we did (as explicitly instructed by customer at the time)

yet they accepted the delivery and signed the delivery note?

we shouldn't deliver at that time because they are busy,

they accepted the delivery, did they advise when they ordered they wanted a timed delivery?

we should leave a copy delivery note AS WELL AS paper invoice with each deliver

irrelevant

On this occasion

actual value of loss is insignificant to both parties

but what about the next time?

 

[Mr D]

Regarding the point of delivery at wrong time as they were busy.

Would they not know to expect delivery after ordering / delivery booked in a day or two in advance?

This sounds like a customer that can be more trouble than worth. Yes its on paper a good idea to deal with any customer, in practice there are some customers that are not worth having.
Time and effort expanded on this customer so far - worth the effort?

 

[Noah]

Thanks for everyone's replies - all much appreciated.

We have decided to replace the delivery without acknowledging responsibility, and asked to customer to clearly define delivery expectations.

Varying our terms and conditions of business would be nice, but in this extremely competitive market would not work - we would simply lose business. There is a small benefit of this - our process for managing difficult customers is simplified because the only discussion is what, if anything, we want to do about a problem - virtually no customer in this business is interested in being part of any solution.

In context, this is in part because our business works in long-established and well-defined industry with the weight of this-is-the-way-we-have-always-done-it expectations; combine this with competition, extreme price sensistivity, and a tendency to bloody-mindedness in our customers, and... well, I wonder what the hell I'm doing sometimes...