The classic question: Do you hire on grades or experience?

The perennial debate of whether you should hire on grades or experience seems all the more important for small businesses that need their employees to be hands on, practical and flexible; does this mean you're more likely to hire based on experience?

I'm writing a feature that's been supported by recruitment experts Milkround that will look at the challenge you face when assessing candidates and wanted to find out what you think is the best route - grades or experience? - and how you balance the two when hiring new team members.
 
I am in the process of leaving a team but we were hiring on experience. We were/are a specialist division of the company selling into two markets Education and Membership organisations.

As such we went out and looked for people with experience in those sectors. Once we had a shortlist we'd then interview them (as management of the team) then get somebody from within the team to check out their sector knowledge and combine the results.

Most successful sales team in the business now and ended up taking over the new business team since we'd established a strong team out of what started as just me and my colleague and is now 9 once I leave.

I think by having a degree I am the most qualified in the team and once I leave I don't think any of them will have a relevant qualification just bundles of the right experience.
 
Upvote 0

paulears

Free Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,657
1,666
Suffolk - UK
both. Experience is always quoted as 'best' - but some experience is worth more than others. So I look for the right kind of experience. Somebody with high qualifications and weaker experience might be useful for some roles, but the obviously experienced person may prove down the line to have only learned his depth of experience in a limited arena - so might have no knowledge at all of some fairly obvious things.
 
Upvote 0

jackal999

Free Member
Mar 26, 2014
38
12
57
For us, it's experience!

this was because of my father. He suffered from severe dyslexia meaning he struggled to both read and write.

He struggled to find work as a result but eventually he was given a break by a large white good manufacturer.

He eventually rose to be service director of the said company and with the assistance of a secretary whom would deal with the reading and writing bits he developed their induction and training scheme for all their new engineers. A scheme still used today, 15 years after he passed away.

He only ever took on a member of staff whom was paper qualified rather than experienced.

He was a refrigeration engineer with more certificates than my dad had ever seen. It ended a few weeks later when all but one of the jobs he was sent to ended up being exchanged because the engineer concerned destroyed most the customers equipment because he couldn't use a brazing tool.

At the end of the day i suppose it's the job that defines the OPs question.

I wouldn't want an unqualified solicitor/accountant/doctor working on or for me!

J
 
Upvote 0

Paul Murray

Free Member
Nov 24, 2011
656
189
Manchester
I'm looking at taking on a couple of staff in future and will almost certainly be hiring solely based-off of their experience and examples of previous work. I honestly wouldn't really care whether or not they had degrees so long as their work and attitude are right for me (though I'm referring to employment within the creative industry).

Obviously there's value to a degree, but I've never really trusted in the 'tick-box' approach to education. Being able to fulfil all the criteria in a certain area doesn't necessarily make that person better than someone who didn't.

If they have other qualifications, for example accredited certifications, then that would be something that could sway my decision, but for the most part it will be the quality of their work and how they interview that I'll be taking into consideration.
 
Upvote 0
Neither. Ability.

We no care if no qualifications.

Qualifications 100% useless. Plenty of educated idiots out there!

Experience better, but only if relevant.

We assess ability like this -

Ad in paper/website/bog wall "You are -, we are - " They phone, we talk.

We like, they come to us and talk some more.

We give them try-out. They deliver, they stay.

They say "Dog ate my homework!" they no stay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Murray
Upvote 0
I would say those stating ability are missing the point. Of course its ability but how do you judge those people before you get a chance to judge ability. Do you simply meet everyone that offers up a CV as it doesn't really matter what they've done they could come in and blow you away?

Don't get me wrong I get what you are saying, but when you look at an application you cannot really judge ability on anything other than achievements (which are either academic or experience based) and so you are back to square one. How do you judge who has the ability to be considered for interview?
 
Upvote 0
M

myfairworld

Obviously depends a lot on the job but I think there is a lot to be said for the 'active' interview as well as for taking people on (and paying them obviously) for a day or more to see how they actually function. This isn't an 'anti-qualifications' post - I have a couple of degrees plus other qualifications - BUT gaining a qualification is not the same as being able to put it to good use on a day to day basis. Also some people never progress beyond what they learned to get their last qualification.

It is a standard to say that no one wants to be treated by an unqualified doctor, but I've met doctors who'd learned so little since the end of their formal training (I used to work alongside doctors at one stage of my career) that it might have been safer to be treated by someone unqualified but, as it were, more up to date in their reading! Amusingly enough two or three years ago a doctor was prosecuted or struck off or whatever because it was discovered that he was unqualified. The judge or head of panel or whoever it was did point out that there was no evidence that any patients had been harmed as result of being treated by this unqualified person...
 
Upvote 0
@toastking Competency based questions based on JD plus personal statements to shortlist for interview.

This combined with interview and presentation helps judge ability, attitude and cultural fit for the positions I recruit for.

Thanks for having a go with a fair answer rather than biting back, I did think I'd be left to my own devices!

But I think there is a deeper set of meanings to your response. For example what do they base those competency statement answers on if not their experience or qualifications?

Don't get me wrong I know what you are saying, but it doesn't align with the question which asks an answer A or answer B question, its ok to say a mix it just asks which you favour A or B. Every answer given is actually based on Qualifications or Experience.

How do they answer the competency statements if they aren't allowed to use their qualifications or experiences? Now thats being a little harsh but you must see my point... what you are looking for in competency statements for example, using your approach is how they fit in ability, attitude and culturally wise. But in truth their answers and how you are measuring them are based on either their qualifications or experience and how you value their responses.

Also your answer suggests that yes you do indeed get every candidate to answer all the competency statements, you then read all of these and interview everyone that applies regardless.(I doubt this is true as that would suggest low applications which suggests either your job offering is awful or you're wasting a lot of time on people who could quickly be sorted out of the system and I think you're too smart for that).

What happens when you get 2,000 candidates do you spend the next year or two picking? This many people will sometimes apply to simply terrible jobs so you cannot say it wouldn't happen.
 
Upvote 0

Jeff FV

Free Member
Jan 10, 2009
3,891
1,861
Somerset
Either consciously or subconsciously, a lot will hire on the basis that someone else has thought them good enough before.

Applications, interviews etc can always be a bit of a lottery, so we (the generic "we") will always favour an external validation of our thoughts: if someone else (perhaps the admissions tutor at Carbutnot's College, Cambridge, or the HR dept. at General Motors, say) thought they were good enough to hire (or give a place to) then "... I'm probably right to offer them the place in my company" , your thoughts have been validated by someone else.

What it doesn't tell you is how they then performed in that institution, just that that institution thought them worthy of a place.

Grades are often the key to get you through the first door, but their importance diminishes as you gain experience (or higher grades. Don't tell those getting their GCSE results tomorrow, but in a couple of years time they will not have huge value, having been superseded by A Levels, BTECs, apprenticships, experience - delete as necessary)

Not saying whether its a good thing or not, just that it happens.
 
Upvote 0
Thanks for having a go with a fair answer rather than biting back, I did think I'd be left to my own devices!

But I think there is a deeper set of meanings to your response. For example what do they base those competency statement answers on if not their experience or qualifications?

Don't get me wrong I know what you are saying, but it doesn't align with the question which asks an answer A or answer B question, its ok to say a mix it just asks which you favour A or B. Every answer given is actually based on Qualifications or Experience.

How do they answer the competency statements if they aren't allowed to use their qualifications or experiences? Now thats being a little harsh but you must see my point... what you are looking for in competency statements for example, using your approach is how they fit in ability, attitude and culturally wise. But in truth their answers and how you are measuring them are based on either their qualifications or experience and how you value their responses.

Also your answer suggests that yes you do indeed get every candidate to answer all the competency statements, you then read all of these and interview everyone that applies regardless.(I doubt this is true as that would suggest low applications which suggests either your job offering is awful or you're wasting a lot of time on people who could quickly be sorted out of the system and I think you're too smart for that).

What happens when you get 2,000 candidates do you spend the next year or two picking? This many people will sometimes apply to simply terrible jobs so you cannot say it wouldn't happen.

You toss 1950 in the trash without reading them, after all why would you want to hire someone with bad luck?
 
  • Like
Reactions: toastking
Upvote 0
Industry: Accountancy

For support roles, I would like to see a candidate part way through a qualification such as AAT.
For more senior positions, I would like to see candidates part way through or have completed a chartered qualification.

In addition to qualifications, I want to see experience.
Qualifications give some credibility to a candidate. It means they have reached a certain standard of knowledge. Experience along with a qualification shows they are able to apply that knowledge to real life situations.

A candidate with experience only may be very good. But they will be limited to the experience they have at that point, whereas a candidate with both will be able to relate some of their studies to situations they have not yet encountered – someone with experience only cannot do this.
 
Upvote 0
I would say those stating ability are missing the point. Of course its ability but how do you judge those people before you get a chance to judge ability. Do you simply meet everyone that offers up a CV as it doesn't really matter what they've done they could come in and blow you away?

Don't get me wrong I get what you are saying, but when you look at an application you cannot really judge ability on anything other than achievements (which are either academic or experience based) and so you are back to square one. How do you judge who has the ability to be considered for interview?

In a word, experience.

I will be 65 this year, so I've had plenty of chances to work out how to assess people. In my present work, I look for four things -
  • Work ethic
  • Intelligence
  • Honesty
  • Ability
I have never asked anybody for their qualifications - in fact, I have found that the worst employees were sometimes the best qualified.

The first steps in the interview process, is to weed out the nonsense. This is done by the very structure of the way you ask the applicants to approach you. For example, if you are looking for a junior journalist, get them to phone you and tell them on the phone that they have one hour to get a signed letter on one A4 page to you. That tells you if they can think on their feet and complete a simple task under time pressure.

If you are looking for a web designer, ask for their website and other examples of their work. You can do these things on the phone. No need for long pointless and silly CVs and letters telling you how enthusiastic and honest they claim to be!

If you are not employing a first-timer, that telephone call should also tell you what they have achieved so far. The job they are applying for should be a natural step-up in their career. The position must make sense for both employer and employee.

Having whittled down the usual flood of hopefuls to just five or ten, now comes the interview.

We need intelligent people, so I look for someone who can riff with words, the way a jazz musician plays a solo. I expect them to be able to discuss anything and everything, from Nicki Minaj to car engines, from gardening to cooking. I am looking for an inquiring, hungry mind that finds a link between The Goon Show and scallops. I look for fluency of speech and speed of thought.

Above all, I am looking for someone who has opinions and tells me things I didn't know and someone who asks me a lot of searching questions about the company and the job. I like it when an applicant puts me on the spot or disagrees with something I have said.

Having discussed Nicki Minaj's buttocks and the state of the economy, we move on to the candidate's technical ability. A quick an in-depth discussion of the field in question soon tells me if this person knows what they are talking about. If you are hiring a builder, I suppose you would discuss frogs and noggins, trusses and health and safety rules. If you are hiring a lumberjack, you would discuss Stihl versus Husqvana, John Deere versus Case.

Honesty is a harder one to judge and I have had my slip-ups here in the past. A big no-no is older men who live on their own, after a series of broken relationships. Also I avoid people who are too quick to agree with me or try to please too hard. I will also ask some technically trick questions or make a technically incorrect statement and see if they pick up on it.

The interview will be a relaxed and even jolly affair over coffee, but will tell me a great deal. After chatting to all ten or so, one usually has two or perhaps three tops, that could fit the bill. Each gets a paid one-day try-out at the rock face. That usually decides the matter.
 
Upvote 0
I've not done any interviewing for a long time.
I'd usually look for experience and work ethic + stable home / marriage [ but you can't ask about that any more? ] and no unexplained gaps in the CV.
Academic qualifications rate fairly low on the list in the retail business.
I like John Timpson's approach, valuing personality as the best quality.
 
Upvote 0

ryedale

Contributor
Free Member
Dec 17, 2013
1,554
369
50
Malton
I hire based on experience, personality and how they score on various technical tests we give them during the interview process.

I've found in the field of web design, degrees are relatively worthless as they spend years teaching them incredibly advanced stuff they'll probably never use and completely ignore the basic fundamentals.
 
Upvote 0
Academic qualifications rate fairly low on the list in the retail business.

Aldi wants a 2.1 in a main-stream subject for its management trainees.

Marriage doesn't always constitute a good worker either, or do you think it has some merits?

Obviously youngsters are usually not married, but a series of broken relationships in an older person is a sign of someone who is difficult to get along with and is one of the very typical signs of a sociopath.

There can of course be perfectly legitimate reasons for this, such as just plain bad luck, but if it is combined with other signs (lack of concrete achievements, over-friendly, bad-mouthing and blaming others) is something to watch out for.
 
Upvote 0

RPower

Free Member
Oct 15, 2012
380
67
Bristol
@The Byre That's a really interesting point! I'd say from my viewpoint though that there are lots of people who choose not to get married, who are stable and capable and not sociopaths. I don't think I'd like an employer to judge me based on my marital status.

What else do you look for as a sign of stability when hiring people?
 
Upvote 0
Being a bit too friendly does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Bad mouthing and blaming others does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Having a series of broken relationships does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Never having achieved much and having no qualifications does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Creating bad blood at the work place does not indicate that you are a sociopath.

But put them all together . . .
 
Upvote 0
Being a bit too friendly does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Bad mouthing and blaming others does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Having a series of broken relationships does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Never having achieved much and having no qualifications does not indicate that you are a sociopath. Creating bad blood at the work place does not indicate that you are a sociopath.

But put them all together . . .


And you have an MP or a footballer..;)
 
Upvote 0

Latest Articles