The beginning of the end?
- Thread starter Newchodge
- Start date
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Deleted member 335660
Well Cyndy he certainly stirred up the creative industry, I guess part of it is the result of Brexit hampering their opportunities to play in Europe.
As for the English, they turned down PR, they knew what a turncoat he was before the 2019 election, and then they go mad and give him a huge majority. So they got what they deserved.
Big question now, is what they do next.
As for the English, they turned down PR, they knew what a turncoat he was before the 2019 election, and then they go mad and give him a huge majority. So they got what they deserved.
Big question now, is what they do next.
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- Original Poster
- #3
I actually have sopme sympathy for him. They knew he was an untrustowrthy serial liar when they made him leader of the Tory party; they knew he was an untrustworthy serial liar when they elected his party with a massive majority; now they want to get rid of him for being an untrustworthy serial liar.
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I think the reason Boris got elected, was down to being the seen as the lesser evil at the time.
I mean, let’s be honest at least to ourselves, ALL the politicians from ALL the parties are liars, see themselves as above the law where measures enforced upon us do not apply to them.
We are living in the future predicted in Animal Farm many years ago.
I mean, let’s be honest at least to ourselves, ALL the politicians from ALL the parties are liars, see themselves as above the law where measures enforced upon us do not apply to them.
We are living in the future predicted in Animal Farm many years ago.
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I grew up watching politicians argue round in circles on question time, seeing picket lines, riots, etc.
It struck me then that the one common thing these people seemed to crave was power.
And with the power came corruption and lies.
With less & less workforce required, I see no way out.
It’s gonna get a whole load worse!
It struck me then that the one common thing these people seemed to crave was power.
And with the power came corruption and lies.
With less & less workforce required, I see no way out.
It’s gonna get a whole load worse!
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My understanding these informal meeting with wine have been going on for years and many governments as a way for all the staff in sections to meet up and discuss things with both senior and junior members of the team. Should they have continued , then obviously not, were they parties, not what i would call them just the same as the boss inviting a few to a luncheon. but each to their own, to make political headlines they are called parties
Hard to believe the heads of departments and PM did not know they were going on , so a lack of leadership at many levels
Do I believe that Labour are any different no, but apart from this subject i do think Borris has done a good job against all odds, off the cuff decisions may well have saved the day rather than going through various working parties taking time to dot every i and cross evert T
Very hard to find a replacement in any party
Hard to believe the heads of departments and PM did not know they were going on , so a lack of leadership at many levels
Do I believe that Labour are any different no, but apart from this subject i do think Borris has done a good job against all odds, off the cuff decisions may well have saved the day rather than going through various working parties taking time to dot every i and cross evert T
Very hard to find a replacement in any party
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I think this is true. I do think he was able (through his ability & willingness to lie) to unite very disparate sections of the electorate and this helped him achieve his large majority. But equally important was that he was running against Jeremy Corbyn who (rightly or wrongly) was unpalatable to a significant element of the electorate
The damage Corbyn did to Labours chance of being elected rumbles on - he hasn’t been leader for 2 years, and is actually no longer a member of the party, but you still hear people say …”but Corbyn …”. I think we are now in the same territory with Johnson. The longer he stays, the more damage he is doing to the Tory brand and, although I am sure he will no longer be leader by the time of the next General Election, his premiership, and the parties delay in disposing of him will be held against him.
So why is he still in power? Several reasons, of which a few are:
1). He is a man of no morals who only looks after himself. Many would have fallen on their own sword by now, but his primary driving force in all he does is to save his own skin.
2). He purged the party of “grown ups”. His cabinet is very, very poor. Most of them know they only have a position in Cabinet because of Johnson (who likes to surround himself with those that aren’t that good - he doesn’t want any to appear to be better than him). Consequently, the cabinet (or members of it) haven’t moved against him.
3) Things are only going to get tougher over the coming months. The next leader wants Johnson to take the rap for the cost of living crisis that is barrelling down the road. Better to wait, keep him in power, and take charge in the summer.
4) The back benchers - and ERG in particular- know he is weak and powerless, and that they are now the puppet masters. So better for them to keep him in power and manipulate him to get what they want, than have a new incumbent that won’t (necessarily) do their bidding.
5) A side note, but I think Rishi Sunak’s blown his chances. Had he moved swiftly a few weeks ago, he’d be PM now, putting Partygate behind us, Sue Grey & Police investigation not needed. But now, it seems, there is a photo of him at one of the parties, drink in hand, so he is implicated and will be damaged by association.
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- Original Poster
- #12
I agree, the emphasis on 'parties' is stupid. The law was no gathering indoors of more than 2 people unless for work purposes when working from home was not possible. Hard to see a real work purpose in a leaving or birthday party. The fact people gathering were work colleagues is irrelevant. I have a part-time job in the Home Office which has continued throughout the lockdowns and cannot be done from home. The rules are simple. 2 metre distance from others at all times. No food sharing - you couldn't even take a tin of Quality Street in at Christmas (including the one just gone) and let others take a wrapped sweet. The rule has always been no alcohol on the premises.
I love your quote
Very hard to find a replacement in any party
I thinkk, if they had been found at any party they woud not be capable of being a replacment ?
??
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I'm not inclined to agree.
I wouldn't want Boris as PM in normal times. These aren't normal times.
I've never seen an opposition leader quite as keen as Starmer not to be PM.
My own view is to let Boris bumble and buffoon his way through until the recession sets in and we have an election (I might even vote Labour out of spite)
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He can win the next election but only if he does certain things:
Bin the green crap. We don't want to be colder and poorer.
Sort out immigration. Taxpayers do not want to pay for illegal immigrants to stay in nice warm hotels when many are going to be forced into an eating or heating choice.
Stimulate the economy by reducing taxation, then all can prosper.
Or put more simply adopt conservative policies - then it will be a landslide again.
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T
The Byre
Every day we get new reports of governmental waste. Probably a few hundred billion have been poured down the drain of inept planning and gross unpreparedness by the Johson administration.
But we are going to dethrone this inept buffoon, not for his stupidity and the gross stupidity of every single one of his lieutenants, not for taking government spending from 35% of GDP (FY 2019-20) to 53% (FY 20-21) not for a failed lockdown policy and a crippled NHS that fails at every task, not for runaway inflation, not for a totally failed energy policy, not for failing old-age care, not for growing poverty, not for cash for honours or contracts for buddies.
No! No! We shall gloss over those blatant symptoms of corruption and mendacity and stupidity. That, it seems for the Parliamentary Conservative Party, can be ignored or put down to business as usual.
We are going to have a change of administration because of cheap wine and sausage rolls.
But we are going to dethrone this inept buffoon, not for his stupidity and the gross stupidity of every single one of his lieutenants, not for taking government spending from 35% of GDP (FY 2019-20) to 53% (FY 20-21) not for a failed lockdown policy and a crippled NHS that fails at every task, not for runaway inflation, not for a totally failed energy policy, not for failing old-age care, not for growing poverty, not for cash for honours or contracts for buddies.
No! No! We shall gloss over those blatant symptoms of corruption and mendacity and stupidity. That, it seems for the Parliamentary Conservative Party, can be ignored or put down to business as usual.
We are going to have a change of administration because of cheap wine and sausage rolls.
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This all smacks of someone or some select people wanting a change of leader, for what purpose?
Boris has managed to ride waves of lies and u-turns on virtually every policy for 2 years. All of a sudden, the msm are actually highlighting the lies?
No. Something is going on. They turfed May out by making her look isolated and a bit silly, they championed Boris as an almost Churchill like figure and now they're calling him a buffoon and going on about garden parties that have been known about for 2 years? Why were they not reported 10 or more parties ago?
Someone else is being lined up to continue the next phase of wrecking the country. Rishi? What is his drive for being a politician exactly? He's a multi multi millionaire with business interests around the globe but there he is, as an MP? Really? Why? Why is he getting column inches?
They tried Gove in the MSM but the reaction must of been horrific, so he's been dropped from the race already
Boris has managed to ride waves of lies and u-turns on virtually every policy for 2 years. All of a sudden, the msm are actually highlighting the lies?
No. Something is going on. They turfed May out by making her look isolated and a bit silly, they championed Boris as an almost Churchill like figure and now they're calling him a buffoon and going on about garden parties that have been known about for 2 years? Why were they not reported 10 or more parties ago?
Someone else is being lined up to continue the next phase of wrecking the country. Rishi? What is his drive for being a politician exactly? He's a multi multi millionaire with business interests around the globe but there he is, as an MP? Really? Why? Why is he getting column inches?
They tried Gove in the MSM but the reaction must of been horrific, so he's been dropped from the race already
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T
The Byre
I must admit that it does seem all a bit strange and contrived!
Perhaps it's because Johnson is proving to be a brilliant recruiting sergeant for Scottish and Welsh independence and for NI joining the RoI? Just a thought!
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Strange rules the home office had.
Lots of departments / agencies in the civil service, all with their own responses and methods for dealing with covid.
I know of a smaller agency that was not so draconic despite much of their work needing staff in offices.
And the bosses purchased the sweets and biscuits.
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Yes, Boris is a known figure. People seem to forget his replacement is already a conservative MP. Someone who will have the same problems to deal with and the same limitations on what can be done. With the same parliament.
The only difference for that next leader is they can be second guessed by Boris too!
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The thing that’s difficult to understand is this.
I don’t know a single person who would’ve curtailed their social lives, their businesses, their visits to elderly loved ones, their hospital, doctors and dentists appointments, their holidays, their everything else - whilst under threat of fines for non-compliance, by choice.
So either - people genuinely believed it was the ‘right thing to do’ in any case, and the government is irrelevant and they (the people) are too stupid to make their own decisions so just do it.
Or.
People who were happy to be ordered about by Boris Johnson & the tories, had faith in what they were being told because he ‘got Brexit done’ and that was that.
But now, seriously, can anyone look at the people who made decisions on their behalf, take a good long stare at what they’ve been up to, and not even question it?
Genuinely interested to know
I don’t know a single person who would’ve curtailed their social lives, their businesses, their visits to elderly loved ones, their hospital, doctors and dentists appointments, their holidays, their everything else - whilst under threat of fines for non-compliance, by choice.
So either - people genuinely believed it was the ‘right thing to do’ in any case, and the government is irrelevant and they (the people) are too stupid to make their own decisions so just do it.
Or.
People who were happy to be ordered about by Boris Johnson & the tories, had faith in what they were being told because he ‘got Brexit done’ and that was that.
But now, seriously, can anyone look at the people who made decisions on their behalf, take a good long stare at what they’ve been up to, and not even question it?
Genuinely interested to know
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Boris is a strange one, undoubtedly personal strength to get a Brexit over the line (though still issues) don't think anyone else could have pulled that off. The virus has dominated his leadership to date both good and bad to that. He is meant to be a liberal Tory type and the more cycle lanes and slowing of traffic I see locally I suspect he has agendas the public are unaware of. Doubt Rishi will be much better and wonder as being a multi-millionaire probably with little generational history of Britain I doubt how much he knows about the struggles of the British working classes. This leads me to believe there may be another dark horse contender, perhaps like Cameron was.
I think Boris has made many errors not ending the lockdowns earlier, the HS2 shambles, parities at Westminster have damaged his standing though if he has enough time he will ride this out. It depends how quickly other damaging stories come out before good ones do.
I recall in the London elections some years ago some people that normally voted Labour said they would vote for Boris as he makes then laugh.......
I think Boris has made many errors not ending the lockdowns earlier, the HS2 shambles, parities at Westminster have damaged his standing though if he has enough time he will ride this out. It depends how quickly other damaging stories come out before good ones do.
I recall in the London elections some years ago some people that normally voted Labour said they would vote for Boris as he makes then laugh.......
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'They' were 150,000 white, male, middle-class, over 50, members of the Tory party - that's about 0.3% of the voting population.
'They' gave him a massive majority because he wasn't Jeremy Corbyn. A camel would have done as well.
'They' want to get rid of him because, in addition to being an untrustworthy serial liar he's an ignorant, incompetent buffoon surrounded by a cabinet of ignorant, incompetent sycophants.
Answer the question?
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If Labour had won the election, they would never have spent the money on the anti-virus, they would in fact have done nothing , just sitting on the fence waiting to see what the rest of the world did.
The fallacy that they would have spent more on the NHS is proven by their history.
Brexit would never have happened plus hundreds of working parties set up to sort things out with all of them unable to resolve any issue.
Ask yourself when have they ever made a positive suggestion whilst in opposition, they just snips at whatever the government of the day suggests
The fallacy that they would have spent more on the NHS is proven by their history.
Brexit would never have happened plus hundreds of working parties set up to sort things out with all of them unable to resolve any issue.
Ask yourself when have they ever made a positive suggestion whilst in opposition, they just snips at whatever the government of the day suggests
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- Original Poster
- #31
He pulled it off using his normal tactics. He lied. He agreed to everything that was awkward, like the Northern Ireland protocol that he proposed, while lying to the contry that there would never be a border in the North Sea, while he had his fingers crossed as he never meant to implement it. He was the only one who could get Brexit done because he was the only one prepared to ignore all the potential problems and hope they never materialised.
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Johnson's basic problem is judgment. He cannot really work out what policies are likely to work or not. Hence he is not really that bothered about policy. He wants to remain in office.
The difficulty is that a lot of the policies he decides on are actually not that good anyway.
At the same time we face some real problems with energy supply (if there is a shortage of supply the price goes up).
The difficulty is that a lot of the policies he decides on are actually not that good anyway.
At the same time we face some real problems with energy supply (if there is a shortage of supply the price goes up).
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Totally
All those people saying "he brought disparate people together into a whole" are missing 1 huge thing
He id it by telling everyone they would get what they wanted despite it being logically and in some cases legally impossible
For instance you can not have No Irish land customs border, No Irish Sea Customs Border and No alignment with SM/CU regulations yet he promised each of those to different people. (you can have any 2)
His skills is an an orator or rather in making enough people think he said what they wanted to hear (he usually actually spouts twaddle), it is later they realise he didnt, when they dont get what they expected and they go back over when they think they were made the promise
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I disagree. I have voted Conservative all my life and consider myself to be on the right. I was undecided about whether or not I wanted Boris to continue until last week's PMQs when Ian Blackford lectured him on partying whilst the population stuck to the rules that he had imposed but when the cameras cut to Boris he was just sitting there smirking. The man has no class and I would like him out.
The reason why I don't wish t partake at any length in this thread is as I have already said, the champagne socialists are anti Boris as a matter of course so arguing with them is just a waste of time
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As one myself, It's not a case of loving him, but at least he gets things done and little sign of anyone else being able to act quickly to solve problems, as the potential competition for the job (apart from Liz) just dither around
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T
The Byre
I am completely in the middle. I deal in economic realities and never in political ideologies - indeed, I despise any isms, left or right. In fact, I dislike all belief systems. I dislike them and I do not trust them. They are (IMO) corrupting.
One of the most corrupting belief systems is belief in a country. Larger countries are always better for being broken up into smaller units. For example, Germany would (IMO) be better off if it were broken up into smaller units such as the 16 federal states, each setting their own tax levels and having their own laws. To some extent, they do that already.
And that was the one thing that I disliked about the EU - the drive towards centralisation of rules and regulations. Yes, I want freedom of movement of people, goods and services. But stop right there.
The greatest freedom a person can have is the freedom to vote with their feet. Brexit took that freedom away from the British people. Like the population of the old East Germany, the British are now confined to their island but are allowed out for holidays.
The one country that is breaking apart and needs to be broken apart before any further damage is done by central governmental dogma is The United Kindom. And Johnson is doing more for the destruction of the union than any politician in history.
He will succeed where Bonny Prince Charlie failed. He is doing more for the reunification of Ireland than Jerry Adams ever could have dreamed of.
For that reason, I want him to stay right there where he is. And I want him to continue to act stupid whilst his Praetorian Guard close ranks around him. I want him to continue to destroy the UK economy, aided by his incompetent schoolboy chums. More revelations about his ding-bat wife in The Mail on Sunday. More corruption. More waste. More government largesse for chums. More ministers having side-gigs.
And above all - more lies, please!
One of the most corrupting belief systems is belief in a country. Larger countries are always better for being broken up into smaller units. For example, Germany would (IMO) be better off if it were broken up into smaller units such as the 16 federal states, each setting their own tax levels and having their own laws. To some extent, they do that already.
And that was the one thing that I disliked about the EU - the drive towards centralisation of rules and regulations. Yes, I want freedom of movement of people, goods and services. But stop right there.
The greatest freedom a person can have is the freedom to vote with their feet. Brexit took that freedom away from the British people. Like the population of the old East Germany, the British are now confined to their island but are allowed out for holidays.
The one country that is breaking apart and needs to be broken apart before any further damage is done by central governmental dogma is The United Kindom. And Johnson is doing more for the destruction of the union than any politician in history.
He will succeed where Bonny Prince Charlie failed. He is doing more for the reunification of Ireland than Jerry Adams ever could have dreamed of.
For that reason, I want him to stay right there where he is. And I want him to continue to act stupid whilst his Praetorian Guard close ranks around him. I want him to continue to destroy the UK economy, aided by his incompetent schoolboy chums. More revelations about his ding-bat wife in The Mail on Sunday. More corruption. More waste. More government largesse for chums. More ministers having side-gigs.
And above all - more lies, please!
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