Taking Paypal to court.

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by dynamic08, Oct 20, 2010.

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  1. dynamic08

    dynamic08 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,897 91
    Just frozen my money for 180 days and I want it back now!

    I have had some info regarding this but should I file this online I cant find a step by step process on what to do and totally unsure of where I should even start.

    Any help much appreciated.

    The paypal forums out there don't get replied to tried that avenue already..
     
    Posted: Oct 20, 2010 By: dynamic08 Member since: May 19, 2008
    #1
  2. Guest

    0 0
    Send pre-legal notification demanding the release of your money within 7 days. Inform them that you no longer wish to be bound by their terms of service and no longer authorise them to hold your funds.

    Court papers can be served at the following UK address:

    PayPal (Europe) Ltd
    WHITTAKER HOUSE
    WHITTAKER AVENUE
    RICHMOND
    SURREY
    TW9 1EH

    Or do it online via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

    They will most likely defend the claim on the basis that

    i They are not PayPal (Europe) Ltd (but can act on their behalf for this court case?!).
    ii You agreed in the Terms & Conditions that your money can be held.
    iii Suspicious activity on your account which poses a risk to their business.
    iv The terms and conditions state that you cannot claim interest (contrary to UK law!)

    This thread should help you for the majority of your legal action.

    http://ebay-and-paypal-help-advice-forums.1688300.n2.nabble.com/What-Now-td4719490.html#a4721588

    The Paypal Europe Sarl Legal Defense for Questionaire:

    http://ebay-and-paypal-help-advice-forums.1688300.n2.nabble.com/What-Now-td4719490i20.html#a4989478
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2010
    Posted: Oct 20, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #2
  3. Guest

    0 0
    PRE-LEGAL NOTIFICATION

    Account Name:
    Email address:

    Despite my compliance with your request to supply extra proof of identity and other documentation i am disappointed that you have failed to remove the account limitation and i remain unable to access my funds.

    Furthermore i am alarmed that you claim that you have to freeze money due to EU Anti money laundering regulations as this is not my understanding of the law. Could you therefore provide documented evidence from a respected legal source that highlights the requirement for you to freeze my account funds in order to comply with EU Anti money laundering legislation.

    I require my funds to be released within 7 days or a valid legal reason that prevents you from doing so be presented to me in writing.

    If you ignore this notice or reply in any other way than to comply with the above i will commence legal proceedings without further notice, at which time court costs, legal expenses and interest will be added to the amount being held in my account by you against my will.


    Yours sincerely
    YOUR NAME



    Letter template 2 - To be used when proof of inventory or postage can not be provided

    PRE-LEGAL NOTIFICATION

    Account Name:
    Email address:

    Despite my compliance with your request to supply extra proof of identity and other documentation i am disappointed that you have failed to remove the account limitation and i remain unable to access my funds.
    While I may have been unable to provide the "proof of inventory" that you requested I have given what I feel to be a fair and perfectly reasonable explanation as to the reason that I am unable to do this. What's more I am able to provide proof of postage which shows that I despatched the goods I listed and I have feedback that shows my buyer received what they bought and paid for and indeed what I listed. -(delete red part if not applicable to you)
    I therefore don't feel that you (PayPal) are acting fairly and reasonably or that you have just cause to continue to deprive me of access to money which legally belongs to me and to which you have no legal claim.
    I therefore require my funds to be released within 7 days or a valid legal reason that prevents you from doing so be presented to me in writing.

    If you ignore this notice or reply in any other way than to comply with the above i will commence legal proceedings without further notice, at which time court costs, legal expenses and interest will be added to the amount being held in my account by you against my will.


    Yours sincerely
    YOUR NAME



    NOTE: the above letter can be used where you also don't have proof of postage, often when PayPal demand proof of postage they demand it for the last five sales, (most likely to not have been sent out yet) as they know there is a good chance you won't have it and they can keep your account frozen for longer, It is advisable if you can afford to that you post the items out as soon as the limitation is imposed so that you can provide the proof of postage, however if you can not afford to do so as you were intending to print the postage using your PayPal funds or you feel uneasy about posting in case PayPal reverse the transactions or whatever reason you may have, as long as you have given your reason to PayPal by phone and/or email just change the paragraph about "proof of inventory" to "proof of postage" and delete the red bit.






    Template Letter 3 - General Letter of pre legal notification can be used in all instances


    PRE-LEGAL NOTIFICATION

    Account Name:
    Email address:

    Despite my compliance with your request to supply extra proof of identity and other documentation i am disappointed that you have failed to remove the account limitation and i remain unable to access my funds.


    I require my funds to be released within 7 days or a valid legal reason that prevents you from doing so be presented to me in writing.

    If you ignore this notice or reply in any other way than to comply with the above i will commence legal proceedings without further notice, at which time court costs, legal expenses and interest will be added to the amount being held in my account by you against my will.


    Yours sincerely
    YOUR NAME
     
    Posted: Oct 20, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #3
  4. Guest

    0 0
    Once you send them the pre-legal notification, they will most likely reply saying that your account poses a risk to their business and they will hold your money for 180 days.

    Subject: Permanent suspension of your PP account

    Dear *****,

    Thank you for contacting us in relation to the above.

    We have decided to place a permanent suspension on your PayPal account and
    no longer provide our services to you as we are not comfortable with the
    level of risk associated with the payments received in your account. In
    this regard, please be advised that at our sole discretion we may place
    one's account under permanent limited access.

    Due to the potential risk of chargeback and other forms of reversals, your
    balance will be held for 180 days from the date of the last payment
    received on your account. Any remaining balance will be available for
    withdrawal on 21 August 2010.

    Unfortunately, on this occasion, we are not able to grant any form of
    redress. To avoid any similar inconvenience in the future and for further
    details on the possible limitation of your account functionality please
    refer to our Help Centre and Legal Agreements, by following the links on
    any PayPal page.

    All complaints can be further referred for independent arbitration to the
    following bodies and for the purpose of doing so, this letter will be known
    as our "final response":

    - UK European Consumer Centre (ECC-Net):
    Trading Standards Institute
    1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way
    Southfields Business Park
    Basildon, Essex SS15 6TH

    - Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)
    110, Route d'Arlon
    L-2991 Luxembourg

    - UK Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), who should be contacted within the
    next six months. For further information, visit
    www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

    Yours sincerely,

    *****
    Executive Escalations
    PP

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Next step (assuming you intend to take them to court)

    The moneyclaim online form should be bullet pointed. (Character restriction on form)

    1. On the (enter date), the Defendant witheld access to funds relating to....

    2. The Defendant requested documents relating to eBay sales to lift temporary limitation on account.

    3. The Claimant submitted documents in accordance with user agreement.

    4. The Defendant refused to release the sum of (enter amount) despite written and verbal requests....

    5. The Claimant informed Defendant in writing that their service was no longer authorised to hold or transfer money to Claimant's bank.

    6. The Defendant refused to give detailed written explanation which authorises the hold of funds.

    7. The Claimant is entitled to interest at the rate of 8% per annum from the date the money was held being the (enter date) to the present date(** days)at the daily rate of 20p making a total sum of (total interest for xdays so far) and continuing at the daily rate of 20p.(See Statutory Interest).

    THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

    (enter total incl interest to date) GBP

    Interest in accordance with s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at such rate and for such period as the court thinks fit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2010
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #4
  5. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

    9,773 2,692
    Very helpful information there Bode!

    Things like this really put me off using Paypal for subscription based services...
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Guest

    0 0
    They will defend the claim for the reasons stated above.

    The case will be sent to your local County Court where you will then be required to fill out a questionaire. The case may also go to a hearing before the court so keep all documents and emails, evidence of posting, receipts relating to transactions etc.

    Questionaire:

    Assuming you have letters and emails were PP have referred to themselves as PP Europe Sarl....Gather this info for evidence for the court.

    1. PP's defence on the basis of the Claimant pursuing the wrong entity should be discarded as the Claimant has correspondence by email and letter from PP in which they refer to themselves as PP Europe, furthermore they are registered at the Surrey address: PP (Europe) Ltd, Whittaker House, 2 Whittaker Avenue, Richmond, Surrey TW9 1EH where the Claimant served pre-legal notification and from where his correspondence and current legal action was acknowledged and replied to both by letter and email.

    2. "PP" are registered as PPl (Europe) Ltd with Companies House, while they are also registered as PP (UK) Ltd at the same address. The Claimant maintains that he was lead to believe by the Defendant that they were PP Europe Ltd and at no time prior to entering this defence to the court has the Defendant attempted to notify the Claimant of this alleged mistake.

    3. Since the Defendant has indicated that they are dealing with the case on behalf of PP Europe, I would suggest that either the court should dismiss this defence, which the Claimant believes to be an attempt to mislead the court since the two entities are in fact trading divisions of the same company, namely PP, or failing this the Particulars of Claim should be adjusted to include the entity PayPal UK Ltd as co defendants.

    4. The Claimant requests that the Court seek clarification from the Defendant as to why, if their defence is true, they referred to themselves as PP Europe and not PP UK and explain how exactly the two entities are separated and who the Claimant's contract is with as it appears that PayPal are attempting to mislead the Claimant and the court by corresponding under one registered trading name then claiming that no contract exists between the Claimant and this entity despite this entity corresponding with the Claimant.

    Answer your side of the story regarding receipts here.

    7 The Claimant has fulfilled his obligation as a seller and has provided all goods for which his business was paid through PayPal's payment system and rejects the allegation that his business poses a risk to PP.

    8. The Claimant wholeheartedly refutes PP's claim that they have any right to hold his funds for 180 days as he has fulfilled his legal obligations to supply the goods which he listed for sale and subsequently sold and in light of this he is now sole legal owner and custodian of the disputed funds in the eyes of the law and to his knowledge there is no legal statute which empowers PP to be allowed to seize, withhold or award the Claimant's funds to third parties and he does not accept any contractual claim from PP in this respect as he has already formally ended his contract with PP by way of written notification. The Claimant does not feel that PP should be allowed by the court to award themselves powers beyond those legally available to them on the basis of a contractual term as this would be dangerous and send out a message that companies can effectively rewrite the law into their favour with contractual terms, something which would surely, in any case, be a breach of the UK's unfair contract legislation.

    9. Furthermore, the Claimant expresses concerns about the lack of any safeguard against his funds should PP go into liquidation during the six months that they intend to freeze his account. He is also dissatisfied with PP's dispute process and business practices and has no confidence in PayPal's ability to transfer or hold the Claimant's funds in a safe and fair manner. The Claimant respectfully requests that the Court should instruct PayPal to return his funds since as legal owner of the funds, he should be allowed to transfer them to a UK regulated and protected banking facility of his choice.

    Sign and Date.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #6
  7. Guest

    0 0
    All information above not legal advice but is based on the experience of users who have taken PayPal to court. It may be necessary to take legal advice for your own situation. I believe there is a class action lawsuit in the US at the moment regarding the 180 holds.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2010
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #7
  8. Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,062 222
    Bode, cam you repeat that please? lol ;)
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Indigo Cherry Member since: Nov 6, 2008
    #8
  9. dynamic08

    dynamic08 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,897 91
    I will be firing off a letter to them tomorrow. I will send it recorded delivery.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: dynamic08 Member since: May 19, 2008
    #9
  10. Rasta Pickles

    Rasta Pickles UKBF Regular Free Member

    332 71
    The truest words you will ever hear are "if you use PayPal, sooner or later you WILL get shafted".
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2010 By: Rasta Pickles Member since: Jun 15, 2010
    #10
  11. myfirstimportbusiness

    myfirstimportbusiness UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    9 0
    Paypal Europe, unlike Paypal US, is a registered bank. Does that in any way alter their legal obligations / make them more accountable?
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: myfirstimportbusiness Member since: Jul 4, 2009
    #11
  12. vvaannmmaann

    vvaannmmaann UKBF Legend Free Member

    13,109 3,369
    Never had any problems with them myself.
    However this may be of some interest to the OP and those with an interest in them.

    www.paypalsucks.com
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: vvaannmmaann Member since: Nov 6, 2007
    #12
  13. Guest

    0 0
    Well, when sellers (who have their own website) branch out a little and start using and encouraging their buyers to use PayPal alternatives such as Moneybookers, PPPay, Nochex etc etc then PayPal will begin improving standards. PayPal is not necessarily the issue - it's the people; paypal take advantage of that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2010
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #13
  14. Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,062 222

    So you're saying that it's OUR fault that Paypal treat us so poorly? I don't think so!

    There will never be another Payment Processing company to rival Paypal, it has been done and tried and failed! Nochex, PPPay etc... It was the same as eBay, there have been loads of online auctions start up since Paypal and all failed! eBid, QXL etc...

    We just have to accept that Paypal are going to be around for a long long time and you can threaten them all you like by sying "if you're not nice to me I am going to go to Moneybookers" but they know that sooner or later you'll be back! They always do!
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: Indigo Cherry Member since: Nov 6, 2008
    #14
  15. Guest

    0 0
    No I am not saying that it is entirely our fault. In my view it is both PayPal and us that is causing the problem. PayPal mess up and have to sort themselves out. Us becaus we are relying on them without giving the alternatives a chance. What proof do you have that other platforms such as eBid, QXL etc have ''failed''. ''Failed'' - rather strong don't you think?

    Of course they are going to be around for a long time; I never said they were not going to be. Nobody is theatening anyone. Many people still use PayPal but branching out a little will do no harm. It would be stupid to give them up altogether.:rolleyes:
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #15
  16. Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,062 222
    You can roll your eyes all you like but the fact is even if people branch out a little bit, it won't make the blindest bit of difference! People are always branching out and a vast majority of them go back to Paypal! Why? because it's a name the Joe Public trust!

    As a lot of retailers also sell on eBay, Paypal's buyer protection is essential to them to get buyers to trust them.


    What I am trying to say is Paypal don't care if you stop using them and by people branchig out a little bit it won't make them change their rules!

    Paypal have been shafting users for years and they know they can get away with and they know they always will! Until the government or FSA steps in and puts a stop the way the run things!
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: Indigo Cherry Member since: Nov 6, 2008
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  17. Guest

    0 0
    How do you know it won't make much of a difference? The same way I asked you how do you know the alternatives have ''failed''?

    I agree with the FSA part but PayPal alternatives such as Moneybookers are FSA regulated and seem to have strict policies on charge backs etc; and say if for example 56% of current paypal users shifted to Moneybookers and eBid, Amazon - I think that would affect PayPal/eBay a little?

    Like I said of course they are going to be around for a long time; I never said they were not going to be. Nobody is theatening anyone. Many people still use PayPal but branching out a little will do no harm. It would be stupid to give them up altogether.
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2010 By: Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #17
  18. paypaltakentocourtuk

    paypaltakentocourtuk UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    2 0
    If you have been stung by Paypal and you want your money back but they refuse to give it back then take them to court in the UK.

    Paypal UK address is:
    Name & Registered Office:
    PAYPAL (EUROPE) LTD
    WHITTAKER HOUSE
    WHITTAKER AVENUE
    RICHMOND
    SURREY
    TW9 1EH
    Company No. 04056498


    This is shown on the companies house website so is correct.

    I am taking Paypal to court as they did not honour there buyer protection policy.

    As they choose not to protect buyers for services I am taking them to court as this is illegal. Remember no company can evade the law by having a get out clause in there terms and conditions.

    Here are the particulars of claim, sounds hard to do but is basically just an explanation of what happened.

    1. On the 11th December 2009 the claimant paid £306.00 to Matthew Bell for services relating to wiping out credit card debt by 80% or more.
    2. The named person above did not show his address and therefore for this reason I am holding Paypal joint liable.
    3. The payment was paid direct to the consultant using paypal but charged by Paypal onto my credit card.
    4. To this date I have not got the service that I paid for and neither have I had any part of a service and I have had no communication.
    5. On the 5th October 2010 I emailed Matthew Bell explaining I wish to claim my money back (£306.00) as I have not had the service which I paid for. I left my mobile number on the email and he called me back stating that he could not refund my money as the company he worked for were no longer trading and he paid the company Guardian Financial, I deny this excuse as my contract is with the person that I paid.
    6. I have tried to do a chargeback with Paypal but they have said they only cover tangible products and not services regardless of whether the customer got what he/she paid for or not, they just did not want to know.
    7. I wish to claim the full cost that I have paid (£306.00) [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']as I have not received the services I have paid for, this is a breach under the Sale of goods and Services Act and also I did not receive the services in a reasonable time frame.[/FONT]
    8. I also wish to claim interest at 8% on the amount paid starting from the 11th December 2009 (approx £28.58) until Judgement.
    9. I wish to claim £100 for inconvenience and stress.
    This claim has been accepted by my local County court and they must respond to me within 14 days from the 28th December 2010, so I will wait for a response by Paypal.

    If I win this win this will teach them a lesson for cheating it's customers. I will let you all know how I get on.
     
    Posted: Jan 1, 2011 By: paypaltakentocourtuk Member since: Jan 1, 2011
    #18
  19. paypaltakentocourtuk

    paypaltakentocourtuk UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    2 0
    If you have been stung by Paypal and you want your money back but they refuse to give it back then take them to court in the UK.

    Paypal UK address is:
    Name & Registered Office:
    PAYPAL (EUROPE) LTD
    WHITTAKER HOUSE
    WHITTAKER AVENUE
    RICHMOND
    SURREY
    TW9 1EH
    Company No. 04056498

    This is shown on the companies house website so is correct.

    I am taking Paypal to court as they did not honour there buyer protection policy.

    As they choose not to protect buyers for services I am taking them to court as this is illegal. Remember no company can evade the law by having a get out clause in there terms and conditions.

    Here are the particulars of claim, sounds hard to do but is basically just an explanation of what happened.

    1. On the 11th December 2009 the claimant paid £306.00 to Matthew Bell for services relating to wiping out credit card debt by 80% or more.
    2. The named person above did not show his address and therefore for this reason I am holding Paypal joint liable.
    3. The payment was paid direct to the consultant using paypal but charged by Paypal onto my credit card.
    4. To this date I have not got the service that I paid for and neither have I had any part of a service and I have had no communication.
    5. On the 5th October 2010 I emailed Matthew Bell explaining I wish to claim my money back (£306.00) as I have not had the service which I paid for. I left my mobile number on the email and he called me back stating that he could not refund my money as the company he worked for were no longer trading and he paid the company Guardian Financial, I deny this excuse as my contract is with the person that I paid.
    6. I have tried to do a chargeback with Paypal but they have said they only cover tangible products and not services regardless of whether the customer got what he/she paid for or not, they just did not want to know.
    7. I wish to claim the full cost that I have paid (£306.00) [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']as I have not received the services I have paid for, this is a breach under the Sale of goods and Services Act and also I did not receive the services in a reasonable time frame.[/font]
    8. I also wish to claim interest at 8% on the amount paid starting from the 11th December 2009 (approx £28.58) until Judgement.
    9. I wish to claim £100 for inconvenience and stress.
    This claim has been accepted by my local County court and they must respond to me within 14 days from the 28th December 2010, so I will wait for a response by Paypal.

    If I win this court case, this will teach Paypal a lesson for cheating it's customers. I will let you all know how I get on.
     
    Posted: Jan 1, 2011 By: paypaltakentocourtuk Member since: Jan 1, 2011
    #19
  20. KC12

    KC12 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    52 3
    Hi I don't know if it counts here, but I know if a consumer pays over (£100 I think) on a credit card they can claim it back from the credit company. I think it was section 75, I very easily got my money back from visa.
     
    Posted: Jan 1, 2011 By: KC12 Member since: Nov 15, 2010
    #20
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