Sub contractor money dispute

[MWarrenCon]

Hi new here so please bare with me!

We are a small construction company. We recently took on a new sub contractor who we were paying weekly no contract in place just verbal. The lad for some reason didn’t ever both invoicing us and just let us pay him week in hand for the hours he did. The boss wrote in his work diary the hours, which was fine. Things began to go down hill when he starting being slap dash and not working to standard or not turning up for work or going home early for some reason. He recently dug through an electric cable having been told exactly where it was by his boss. This caused us £1304.21 worth of damage. He also damaged some cladding sheets through being careless with machinery again costing us. We bought him safety boots and hi viz clothing.
Week before last he didn’t turn up on Monday morning knowing we were pouring concrete that day and needed his help. This left us in a pickle and the team struggled to do the job. He failed to turn up for the rest of the week with no message or phone call to say he wouldn’t be coming in.
We withheld his payment for that week due to the damage and costs he has caused us. He has yet to invoice for the work he did that previous week
Today I have received a money claim email. His evidence on the claim is wrong and the hours he is disputing are also wrong. We still haven’t received an invoice for his weeks work.

Where do we stand? Any advise appreciated

Thanks in advance

 

[WaveJumper]

How were all these transactions put through your own books

 

[MikeJ]

Why do you consider him a sub contractor and not an employee? He sounds very much like an employee to me.

 

[MWarrenCon]

How were all these transactions put through your own books

Yes paid CIS

 

[MWarrenCon]

Why do you consider him a sub contractor and not an employee? He sounds very much like an employee to me.

He is a self employed sub contractor paid CIS

 

[Mark T Jones]

Irrespective of wrong and right, you will be subjected to a lot of questions about procedures, processes, compliance etc which may leave you with a lot of egg on your face unless you are confident you are fully compliant.

TBH, swallow your pride and settle would be my advice

 

[MWarrenCon]

Irrespective of wrong and right, you will be subjected to a lot of questions about procedures, processes, compliance etc which may leave you with a lot of egg on your face unless you are confident you are fully compliant.

TBH, swallow your pride and settle would be my advice

Even if the evidence on his claim form is wrong under oath? He is saying he worked 5 full days but he went home at lunchtime on one of these days. We have a txt message to the boss as evidence asking to finish at lunchtime. He said in his evidence for not coming into work on a particular day that the boss told him to not come in as he was going to Wales which is a lie as he actually txt the boss to say he felt unwell and had the shits so wasn't coming in but would be ok for concrete the next day. The day he failed to turn up and let us know.
Just very frustrating. We have helped him out paying him money early as he said he needed to pay some bills, I even made him lunch one day as he said he didn't have any cash to get anything on his way to work. Makes you wonder why you bother running a small business.

 

[Newchodge]

He is a self employed sub contractor paid CIS

But why? You expect him to turn up at specific times, you provide his protective equipment, he doesn't invoice you, he is allocated work by his boss. Sounds exactly like an employee to me.

 

[Newchodge]

Even if the evidence on his claim form is wrong under oath? He is saying he worked 5 full days but he went home at lunchtime on one of these days. We have a txt message to the boss as evidence asking to finish at lunchtime. He said in his evidence for not coming into work on a particular day that the boss told him to not come in as he was going to Wales which is a lie as he actually txt the boss to say he felt unwell and had the shits so wasn't coming in but would be ok for concrete the next day. The day he failed to turn up and let us know.
Just very frustrating. We have helped him out paying him money early as he said he needed to pay some bills, I even made him lunch one day as he said he didn't have any cash to get anything on his way to work. Makes you wonder why you bother running a small business.

The 'evidence' on his claim form is not under oath.

Work out what you owe him, offer that in full and final settlement, with a breakdown showing the calculation, and let it go.

 

[IanSuth]

But why? You expect him to turn up at specific times, you provide his protective equipment, he doesn't invoice you, he is allocated work by his boss. Sounds exactly like an employee to me.

That is what most CIS are - they are casual workers, paid for the work they do but without right of substitution and under the direction of a manager (foreman)

 

[Newchodge]

That is what most CIS are - they are casual workers, paid for the work they do but without right of substitution and under the direction of a manager (foreman)

CIS has nothing to do with employment status. Many construction workers are in disguised employment, as is this one.

 

[WaveJumper]

Agree a figure get shot of and move on

 

[Tomwirral]

Hi new here so please bare with me!

We are a small construction company. We recently took on a new sub contractor who we were paying weekly no contract in place just verbal. The lad for some reason didn’t ever both invoicing us and just let us pay him week in hand for the hours he did. The boss wrote in his work diary the hours, which was fine. Things began to go down hill when he starting being slap dash and not working to standard or not turning up for work or going home early for some reason. He recently dug through an electric cable having been told exactly where it was by his boss. This caused us £1304.21 worth of damage. He also damaged some cladding sheets through being careless with machinery again costing us. We bought him safety boots and hi viz clothing.
Week before last he didn’t turn up on Monday morning knowing we were pouring concrete that day and needed his help. This left us in a pickle and the team struggled to do the job. He failed to turn up for the rest of the week with no message or phone call to say he wouldn’t be coming in.
We withheld his payment for that week due to the damage and costs he has caused us. He has yet to invoice for the work he did that previous week
Today I have received a money claim email. His evidence on the claim is wrong and the hours he is disputing are also wrong. We still haven’t received an invoice for his weeks work.

Where do we stand? Any advise appreciated

Thanks in advance

Definitely defend the claim. I am assuming you mean a County Court Claim? Defend it with a counter claim outlining the damage this person has caused and the impact on your business financially and in terms of training. The judge will have a field day with him - or he will run away and hide. You need to report this person to trading standards! Good luck mate