Streamline/Worldpay merchant account unpaid charges

C

Cornwall_Laser

I have had a merchant account with Streamline, now Worldpay, for almost 2 years. I have just received a letter from a debt collection company informing me that I owe Worldpay over £1000 for unpaid charges relating to ‘one or more outstanding invoices’.
I have a correctly setup direct debit to pay these charges and each month my statement has confirmed the amount due, the account details for the direct debit and the date on which payment will be taken. It now transpires that the payments have not been taken since the account opened. And yet there has been no demands made by Worldpay or any indication on the monthly statement that any charges were outstanding.
Now I will come clean and admit that my book keeping practices are very poor and had they been better I would have picked up on this situation much sooner. (my lesson is learnt). But what I want to know is:
  1. Should Streamline/Worldpay have followed a set procedure to inform me of the outstanding charges before I received the debt collection companies letter.
  2. Is there a reasonable timeframe within which they should have contacted me about the outstanding charges.
  3. Could I argue that they have behaved unreasonably and should cancel part or all of the outstanding charges.
  4. Can they force me to pay all the outstanding charges given the circumstances.
I appreciate any help with this situation.
 

Energise Accounting

Free Member
Sep 24, 2014
1,145
188
Coventry
the answers to your questions
1. Most companies will send you a monthly statement all oustanding amounts will be showing. If you have not paid by the due date they will normally phone you. as a last resort they will pass it on to debt collection.
2. It depends on how strict the company is on credit control (read their terms and conditions)
3. The short answer is no as they have supplied the service. it is upto you to pay ontime.
4. yes you have to pay. however, you may be able to pay in installments to the debt collection agency

sorry to be harsh unless you can prove it is an error on their part you would have difficulty winning a case like this if it went to court.
 
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L

LMDServicesUK

It would appear that your Debt may have been sold on, hence WP not wanting to discuss it with you any further..

Does WP have your correct postal and email address on file ?

Is your Merchant account facility still operating ?

Have you checked with your Bank as to why WP have not collected the Direct Debits, is the problem at your Bank (e.g. the DD was never correctly set up ?)

Did you not notice that you were better off than you expected every month ?

You need to establish why the DD was never processed and then go back to the Debt Collection company to arrange payment and ensure no interest charges are levelied if you explain why the DD's have not been processed correctly. e.g. a Banking error ?

Whilst it does appear bizarre you have had no communication from WP re this problem, at the end of the day you have not been paying your merchant account fees for 12 months so you will be liable for the o/s debt as you cannot argue that you have not received the service provided by WP ( I presume you have ?) for which you have not paid for as yet.
 
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C

Cornwall_Laser

Thanks for your replies, they were very helpful. I was really looking to see if anyone else had previously had the same problem and what the outcome was. I just felt this was a bizarre situation as Worldpay have continued to provide my merchant service uninterrupted for almost 2 years without informing me of the arrears at any time and making no mention on any of the monthly statements. When I asked the debt collection company why this was the case their reason given was that Worldpay had a 'large backlog' of cases, but would not elaborate further. I have agreed terms with them to repay the outstanding charges on an affordable monthly basis. I think however a strongly worded letter of complaint to Worldpay will be forthcoming later today. In the meantime my lesson has been learnt and my book keeping will receive closer attention in future!
 
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We are just going through the exact same thing - they say we owe them in excess of £4000. Worldppay are very slippery on the phone, and in fact I would go as far as to say that are completely unhelpful and the gentleman I spoke to gave several differing accounts of why they hadn't contacted us before concerning this debt. Likewise, our book keeping could have been more closely monitored, hands up to that one!
  • Each bill they send us clearly gives our correct bank details and states that the payment will be collected via direct debit
  • I have checked with the bank, and they say that nothing has been collected via direct debit since May '15. The bank confirms that the direct debit is "live".
  • We are a tiny business, and sometimes refund more per day that we take via card (we refund security deposits which we hold whilst our customers take away our equipment on hire - it is therefore possible that after a weekend, we will refund more than we take. However, both Barclaycard and Streamline, with whom we have had accounts with before, had no problem in taking the money we owed from our account via the DD system)
Worldpay gave several reasons for this "situation" we find ourselves in.

  • They said we never set up a DD (really? so how have they got our details on each invoice they send, and how come the bank have confirmed that they have the DD instruction)
  • They then said that its the banks fault as Barclays have had problems with the BACS system (Barclays deny this)
  • I was also told by world pay that their system is unable to collect a debt (from us) if your daily takings via card to do exceed the refunds on card. Bearing in mind previous service providers WERE able to do this, this seems mighty strange.
  • I was then told that Worldpay have now changed their procedures and they ARE now able to take monies via DD if the amount taken per day is less than any refunds given (to our customers), BECAUSE THEY NOTICED THEY WERE HAVING THIS PROBLEM (in general, not just with me)
  • In answer to my question of why haven't they told me about this problem before, they first said they only noticed it when browsing through our account, then changed it to, "acting on a report which was produced".
Either way, our account is up for renewal, and I have no wish to renew another year with this company (this isn't the only problem we are having with them). With this is mind, knowing that we wish to cancel, I was told that we have to pay the £4000 + in one go, now. I cannot do this since I don't have the money!

If we were not cancelling, then they say we can pay in instalments after filling in a verbal form over the phone. I don't want to stay with them, but nevertheless asked to be give sight of the phone (so I can collect the financial data they are wanting before they will accept my monthly payment). However, they said they do not have the facilities to show me this form up front (either via post of email!!!)

Notwithstanding all of the above, if instalments were acceptable and agreed upon, I would want to pay be standing order, since DDs with this company seem to have a habit of going wrong, and I think it best that I am in control of the payments going out rather than them deciding to vary the amount they take.

I am not happy at all about how we have been treated over what must surely be their error.
 
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L

LMDServicesUK

How do you takes payments is it via terminal or a Virtual terminal / ecom account ?
If a terminal who are you paying your terminal rental to ?
Have you tried to speak to a supervisor at WorldPay to explain the issue you are having ? At the very least I would put what you have articulated in this post in an email to them, you should be able to get their Customer service email address from their website or from your Merchant statement.

Also are you aware that Streamline were brought by WorldPay several years ago and then re-branded so if everything worked OK when you were with Streamline, point this out as theoretically you have not changed anything.

You mention that the issues started in May, ask WorldPay to verify your DD's were being correctly processed prior to May, (also check with your Bank), and then ask WP to check they have been requesting them correctly.

If your Bank rejected them for lack of funds or any other reason they would have sent a message to WP explaining why the payment request had been rejected..

Do not let them bully you, stand up and get hold of a Manager whom you can at least explain your situation to.

Good luck.
 
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First of all, thanks for your swift reply - and apologies for the numerous typos in my original post. I was so flabbergasted and at the same time almost relieved to find that some other poor person has been in the same position - I just typed at full speed ahead and neglected to read / see my typos!

I can answer your questions, and also now have an update since I have since gone back to the bank, and had another email from worldpay....

We use a terminal to take payments/ give refunds, and the monies for the rental of this should be paid direct to Worldpay on the same DD instruction as any monies that we might owe them (due to us refunding security deposits our customers ).

With regard to streamline having bought out worldpay, or vice versa, I cannot argue that it used to work and now doesnt, since I left streamline and went to barclaycard as a service provider in the meantime, before coming to worldpay (at the time, Barclaycard was offering a better deal, and subsequently worldpay trumped them both, so we switched to them when our previous contract expired)

After another hour long conversation with Barclays bank after I wrote my first message above, they have yet again confirmed that the DD is set up, but is indeed "bouncing" the refunds back to our account, since Worldpay are submitting each DD tot the bank with a different reference each time. The reference must be the same as the original mandate in order for Barclays to be able to authorise funds to leave our account. Our account is in credit, so the fact that we have not paid Worldpay is not because we didn't have the money to do so (at the time), it was because they were asking for it using the wrong reference (in fact the references they were using were completely different each time). Barclays confirm that the error is caused by Worldpay. Worldpay insist its Barclays fault The one persons whose fault is isn't, is yours truly. Whilst we don't contest that the money is owed, the situation we now find ourselves in is not of our making.

Just to complicate things further, the DD was working ok up until 19th May (for the hire of the machine only - no transaction charges since the first machine we had never worked - thats one of the reasons that I am so keen to leave Worldpay - as we are fighting with them over having to pay rental on a machine that we couldn't use - they have since swapped the machine for a working one, obviously).

Post May '15, apparently Worldpay had some kind of internal reorganisation, which coincided with us being supplied with a working terminal - and from that point onwards, they have not managed to take a single penny from us (for the hire of the machine, the % payable on each transaction or from the refunds which we make to our customers after they bring back the equipment they have hired.) The invoices say that they are taking the payments via DD and correctly list our bank details though.

When I questioned the unhelpful man at worldpay, asking him why no one had alerted us to what was happening and why hadn't they chased this debt before, he said that someone had phoned from worldpay in "April" in the morning (we don't open till 1pm, and all landline calls are diverted through to a mobile number for emergencies etc prior to that time) and was told that they would have to phone back later when we were open (that makes sense, since without any paperwork in my car . at the beach or wherever else I might have been when they called, I would hardly be in a position to discuss anything unless I was at my workplace). I then asked him if they called back after 1pm, and he said that no one from worldpay had called back from that day, till last week, some five months later.

Exasperated doesn't even cover it.

Since my contract ends next month and I don't want to carry on with World pay, they are saying I have to pay the whole £4k now. No can do. They are saying that the only way we can pay in instalments is if we stick with them for a further year and complete a financial assessment form, which when I asked to see in advance, I was told that wasn't possible. At that point I said that we have recorded the conversation with Worldpay and I would be seeking advice. On hearing that, they have managed to send me the form, but are still saying that if we cancel with them, then the whole £4k is payable now.
 
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If I had the odd £4000 sitting in my account, I would do just that, but I don't have it, and there lies the problem. I accept it's owed, but due to their mess up with the DD, they haven't been taking it, and I did not realise. Now they want me to pay it all in one go and I cannot.
 
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thankyou for the above reply (Energise Accounting)

However, as you can read in my summary of events thus far, we did not put the money aside as we did not know we owed it to them. If I knew, I would have resolved the matter immediately of course.

As I said, like the person who started this thread because they had an identical problem with this company, I will hold my hands up to being behind with paperwork. At first glance on our bank statements (which are online), the deposit returns as we call them (refunds) are easy to spot, since they are a negative figure which clearly shows up on the statement as you cast your eyes over it.

Typically, customers will return hired equipment on a Sunday morning (we work in the leisure industry and most things are hired out on a Saturday night), and on Sundays, our actual sales are next to nothing, so the overall transactions for Sundays often remain in a negative way as far as the card machine goes.

Moreover, the slip produced by the terminal at the time of the transaction says "refund accepted" (after the machine goes through its dial up procedures to check that we have sufficient funds in our bank account to effect the refund.). We have assumed that all was well.

When the money comes back into our account in error a couple of days later, it could be part of a larger amount, which includes our takings (sales) for that day. So, at a glance, it is not necessarily apparent that there is a problem.

Since worldpay said they called us "in April" and by their own admission did not discuss what they wanted to talk about at that point, and we asked them to call back when we were at work (we have no business paperwork at home, or wherever else we might have been when they called), and by their own admission they never called back, they did not actually alert us to the problem for 5 months.

As I have also said above, I have offered to pay in installments as you have kindly advised, but they have refused on the grounds that we wish to cancel the contract we have with them which is up for renewal. This particular problem is not the only one we have had with this company, and we have no wish to continue with them as a service provider.
 
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If I had the odd £4000 sitting in my account, I would do just that, but I don't have it, and there lies the problem. I accept it's owed, but due to their mess up with the DD, they haven't been taking it, and I did not realise. Now they want me to pay it all in one go and I cannot.

What you could do is to offer them payment terms. For example, you could offer to pay them, say, £100 per month and still close your account. In this way, if it ever gets to court, you can say that despite their mistake you made a reasonable effort to pay the amount owed, but they rejected your offer and did not offer you reasonable terms (£4000 in a lump sum because of their mistake is unreasonable). Showing good faith can count for a lot.
 
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Nochexman - thanks for your reply. We in fact offered them £150 / month, and indeed, they refused that outright and said only the full amount would do if we were going to cancel. I have to cancel tomorrow in order to avoid a roll over for another year. However, your advice is very welcome, as at least it gives us an idea of how we might proceed (ie what we would say) if it went to court.
 
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The problem is people who don't employee bookkeepers or take the correct advice don't reconcile these accounts at least on a monthly basis. This way if their are any problems they show up and you don't get in a mess. I do hope you sort out your problems soon.

Thanks for the advice - actually we do have an accountant, but it so happens that all of this fell in between the times when he goes through our books. However, you are right in that we should have kept more of an eye on things. As with the rest of the country, we are bogged down with recession related problems, having had to lose three members of staff and run our business between the two of us, covering sometimes up to 15 hours a day, depending on what day of the week it is - and we are open 7 days per week. Not easy when you live and work together and have a family.
 
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Energise Accounting

Free Member
Sep 24, 2014
1,145
188
Coventry
I wish you good luck for the future. If it went to court I would say I offered them £150.00 per month and they rejected my offer. what I would advise is you put away £150 per month and if they take you to court you can offer what you have saved plus £150 per month until the debt is clear.

A word of caution I know you have gone through hard times don't be surprised if they add on interest fees and court costs

If you can afford it try making them a slightly higher offer of say £200 per month take notes of who you spoke to and you can present this in court if need be.

once again good luck.
 
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Sorry for the slack reply - I have only just found this thread...

In answer to your question (above) - in the end, we borrowed the money and paid off the debt in one hit - thus avoiding court. We cancelled the contract and moved back to barclaycard as a service provider, and have had no problems with them. Lesson learned - statements are now checked very frequently !
 
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Hardy Singh

Free Member
Jan 19, 2017
1
0
Hello Guys.. Just come across this thread..
Just wanted to say recently incurrred exactly the same problem..
Had services from Worldpay 2014-2015 - cancelled with them in my 12 months and moved onto another company.
Was contacted by Debt collection agency Decemeber 2016 asking me to pay nearly £3000 in charges, which were not paid..
I clearly told them all bank details were correct and present as shown on invoices and payments were supposed to leave bank on a monthly basis..

They didnt really have a clue and said this is the amount owed and needs to be paid.. I wasnt having this..!!

N.B - Deal with the debt agency..!!
much better and as they have the debt, worldpay couldnt care less as they will just say the debt is with another company now, so deal direct with the collection agency..!!

1 - I demanded all outstanding invoices be sent over with amounts on there clearly showing amout owing.. (upon this being recieved i would check against my previous bank statements and tally)
again i dont do my own bookeeping so completely never noticed this amount was even owed as assumed it went out of bank VIA Direct Debit..
This was not the case - however £18.00 every month did go out therefore which i assume was for terminal rental charge..
However still £162.00 was paid..

2 - Upon recieving invoices, i calculated the total amount on the invoices they sent over and behold it only amounted to around £1500, i explained this to them and they literally didnt have a clue, they sais this is all they had.. I said well im not paying something without seeing what for..!!
(Bear in mind - dont blantly refuse - or refuse to co-operate, thats when things turn hasty.. Agree that payment of some will be made, but verfication is required so can see what the amount is againt.. Only Fair surely..

3 - I explained this clearly to Debt agency and told them the invoices they sent only amounted to this total and again i have paid £162.00..

they asked if i would be willing to settle, then would i be able to pay today.. Of course depending on the amount owed i said i would..

The gentleman than offered me a 50% reduction and said if pay £1350.00 today, wel close the matter right now..

And thats exactly what i done, paid the 50% reduced amount, closed the matter..

Debt agencies have that power to do that as they will aim to close matter urgently and get as much as they can for their client..
But they have the power to reduce by 50%..

Im sorry to people who have already paid, i couldnt get this out sooner, as my case is very recent..

However I would never look to worldpay again, yes a debt was outstnading, i was never made aware, and then the hassle and chasin up from debt compnaies, CCJ threats all in a matter of a month, its just not on and honeslty its not fair..

Boycott Worlpay - NEVER AGAIN..!!

Im with Paymentsense now, a whole different story i dont even want to get started on - hopeless..!!

Why cant we just find an honest decent card providing platform for small businesses..


Always seems were the 1's getting taken for granted and penalised..
 
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