Stopped cheque what to do next

Last week I fitted a small flat pack kitchen for a customer, it was a labour only job and she suppiled the kitchen. The job was completed and she was happy and paid the invoice of £430 by cheque. The customer has since rang and complaned of a small scratch on the sink, when I left I did not notice any scratch, She did have two electrains round when I finished the job and I asumed it was them the but the scratch their, every sink I have fitted has had a blue protective film on it that you pull off when you have fitted the sink, but she had took this off for some reson before I started the job, I have call the electracians and asked them about the scratch and he told me its my fault for not protected the sink, he got payed in cash and looks like I have been left to deal with this on my own, I got home yesterday and my bank has returned the cheque with stopped stamped on it. I have sent her a letter with a new invoice as a final demand with 7 days to pay what should I do next ?

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Replace the sink at your cost,or take her through the small claims court process.
I'd go for the former.

 

[Bri]

ditto the above

 

[Merchant UK]

I've seen this incident so many times and its a nightmare when a week later you find out that she's not paid, cos of the stopped cheque.

In any case stopping a cheque has to be done in the most extreme cases and not just simply because she's noticed a scratch. She's have to prove that it was indeed you and that would mean actually see you do it otherwise she'd have no proof at all and she'll have a hard time in court defending her right to cancel the cheque.

So go for it at the small claims and remember to state that she offered no evidence to you that you definately caused the damage, where you have the evidence of the stopped cheque and the work was completed to her satisfaction.

What i would do is get a form done which customers would complete saying that the work is completed to their satisfaction and signed to that effect. You could even incorporate it into a guarantee type of thing so it don't stand out too loud.

In the courts the judgement will go in your favor because she has no proof at all that you created the damage and she's decided to stop the cheque as a result, putting you in an aqkward position.

Good Luck

 

[mit74]

What i would do is get a form done which customers would complete saying that the work is completed to their satisfaction and signed to that effect. You could even incorporate it into a guarantee type of thing so it don't stand out too loud.

Good advice!

 

[Merchant UK]

Good advice!

Thanks, the thing people need to remember is that money is very tight nowdays and people will try and get out of their obligations, What was wrong in this case was the woman noticed a mark on her sink and "assumed" the OP did it.

That is not a valid case to simply stop a cheque with no proof whatsoever.

It could also be classed as obtaining goods/services by deception, if she had no intention to pay for the fininished work, by simply saying there was a mark on the sink!! (What planet was she born on!)

Anyway, what needs to be done is a job completion form needs to be completed, there are loads of examples on the net like this one http://www.intermediagroup.org/tools/Job_Completion_Form.pdf

Just make one up similar and get it signed - EVERY TIME!!

It looks like a final demand to her for the money is now the next step with the threat of court action if not paid within 7 days

Good Luck

 

[mit74]

I think it's become the norm for people to think they can cancel payments if not 100% happy. Would they cancel payment for a £10000 car because of a scratch then still go about using it? I trend to think what would have happened if the OP had spent £10000+ on this kitchen. Something like that could cause serious financial problems for the sake of a small scratch.
I think this problem has stemed from paypal with their chargeback policies if not happy with a sale and now people think it's ok to do it for visa and cheques to legitimate companies.

 

[Kernowman]

"The job was completed and she was happy and paid the invoice of £430 by cheque".

Her opportunity to dispute the matter was BEFORE she handed over the cheque, presumably after she had inspected the finished work. By taking out her cheque book, writing it out and handing it to the OP, the contract was complete and satisfied.

Write a letter stating that she had by inference inspected all the work carried out and signalled she was satisfied by making the payment in full. Give her 7 day to pay up or she WILL be facing the judge in the county court.

Don't give this pedantic scheming devious old trout a free sink or free anything else

 

[Psl]

Go and give her cheque back and then tell her you will take her kitchen apart and out put it back in the boxes.Take your tools out and watch how fast the £430 in cash will appear.

 

[SneakSMS]

Go and give her cheque back and then tell her you will take her kitchen apart and out put it back in the boxes.Take your tools out and watch how fast the £430 in cash will appear.

Unfortunately, unless the contract states that all goods remain the property of the OP until payment is made, going through with the removal could result in a charge of theft/criminal damage

Or, you could just hope the customer doesn't call the police

 

[Merchant UK]

or you could go round disconnect her water, remove the sink, and take it way with the explanation that your going to replace it, but don't actually tell her that it'll be right away or even this month, phone her up in a day or two and tell her you've got her booked the first week in January 2011

 

[Psl]

Unfortunately, unless the contract states that all goods remain the property of the OP until payment is made, going through with the removal could result in a charge of theft/criminal damage

Or, you could just hope the customer doesn't call the police

It can't be theft if he leaves the kitchen in the boxes in the womans house.I doubt it will be criminal damage as I would think the OP is a tradesman and will not damage anything and he certianly will not be undertaking the dismantling with any criminal intent.
People like this woman cost small business people a fortune and lot of hassle.
I would certainly add a few quid onto the original invoice for time wasted chasing the money.

 

[Merchant UK]

People like this woman cost small business people a fortune and lot of hassle.
I would certainly add a few quid onto the original invoice for time wasted chasing the money.

I agree 100%

 

[mit74]

Unfortunately, unless the contract states that all goods remain the property of the OP until payment is made, going through with the removal could result in a charge of theft/criminal damage

Or, you could just hope the customer doesn't call the police

the kitchen was already the customers he just charged to install it so the sensible thing is for him to uninstall it. Reminds this of this from last year

http://www.building.co.uk/news/unpa...tomers-porch-and-conservatory/3111849.article

 

I would love to go round and take the kitchen apart but I think court action is the best thing to do, thanks for all the advise everyone, I have been mugged off about a year ago for £170 by a customer that didnt pay, so I'm mad as hell this time and I will take this to court to get my money, I will post the out come lets hope I win

 

[Kernowman]

Good luck, but I don't think you will have any problem provided you keep it simple and to the point when making your claim. Don't get emotional.

Here is what I wrote earlier to refresh your memory:

Her opportunity to dispute the matter was BEFORE she handed over the cheque, presumably after she had inspected the finished work carried out by you. By taking out her cheque book, writing it out and handing it to the OP, the contract was complete and satisfied.

Write a letter stating that she had by inference inspected all the work carried out and signalled she was satisfied by making the payment in full. Give her 7 day to pay up or she WILL be facing the judge in the county court and she will also be liable for any associated costs.

 

[Aussie Dean]

lol @ those early posters to this thread who said to remove the sink and install a new one at his own cost.

That is just ridiculous.

 

[Kernowman]

Equally ridiculous is the notion that the OP can freely enter the house and painstakingly dismantle the kitchen units he assembled and fitted, while Mrs Fussypants stands there calmly watching him do it. She might even put the kettle on to make him a cup of tea while he does it. Some hope.

Dancing the cha cha cha with a great white shark as your partner would be an easier feat to achieve methinks

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Aussiedean,That will have been me.Care to expand on your comment?
Given my own experience with the small claims court,the OP may be better cutting his loses and replacing the sink.
In my case we and our solicitor thought we had a water tight case.The judge thought differently.We lost and had costs.If the OP's client "plays" the judge she may well get away with it.

 

[Geoff T]

I would certainly add a few quid onto the original invoice for time wasted chasing the money.

I agree 100%

OP - add 8% interest charge from due date - plus £40 compensation charge - that will cover the chasing costs...

For info everyone - all the above is in accordance with statutory rights via courts and late payments regulations...

Charge it OP, add to value of original "book debt" - I sincerely doubt any judge won't allow it....

my 2p

 

[CKG]

As someone said earlier.

Just do what the punter wants to make 'em happy.

I recently had my arse kicked through the small claims court and lost seemingly straight laced case over a cracked belfast sink and £2000.

Punters will do whatever it takes to see you off. And the judges seem to lap it up.

Small claims is a crap way to settle trade type disputes.

 

[Kernowman]

I would still send a well worded letter to madame stating your case that:

A) The protective film had already been removed

B) There were other contractors there which may have caused this ferkin great big unsightly gouge the size of the Grand Canyon that offends her so much.

C) By inference she had agreed the work was complete TO HER SATISFACTION by taking out her cheque book and making the payment to you.

D) You have 1,000-ish mates on the UK Business Forum that will do something rather unpleasant through her letter box if she don't cough up the readies.

E) When she has cleaned up that mess she is likely to be summonsed for non-payment

 

[Merchant UK]

I would still send a well worded letter to madame stating your case that:

A) The protective film had already been removed

B) There were other contractors there which may have caused this ferkin great big unsightly gouge the size of the Grand Canyon that offends her so much.

C) By inference she had agreed the work was complete TO HER SATISFACTION by taking out her cheque book and making the payment to you.

D) You have 1,000-ish mates on the UK Business Forum that will do something rather unpleasant through her letter box if she don't cough up the readies.

E) When she has cleaned up that mess she is likely to be summonsed for non-payment

LOL Classic

 

[Business News]

There is a lot to be said for payment up front when dealing with Joe public. If it were me I'd tell her to pay up or face prosecution as she can't complain about something she hasn't paid for.

 

[gessoandgold]

There is a lot to be said for payment up front when dealing with Joe public. If it were me I'd tell her to pay up or face prosecution as she can't complain about something she hasn't paid for.

It seems to me the nicer you are the more people try to take advantage of you. I have a relative who's a really good builder. Not so great at business though, charges too little and is always out on sympathy calls to the aged and infirm.

The general public interpret this as a sign of weakness and all kinds of people have tried to pull cons on him - and often suceeded.

I've told him, change the contracts, money in stages, impose penalties etc. The problem is, the public ends up losing good services behind the behaviour of a few, and good people who try end up broke and embittered.

We could do with more scare stories on TV about nightmare customers!

 

[gessoandgold]

Mind you, I've heard that quite a few of the big boys would find themselves featured in something like that ...

 

[Shaw Stone]

OP - add 8% interest charge from due date - plus £40 compensation charge - that will cover the chasing costs...

For info everyone - all the above is in accordance with statutory rights via courts and late payments regulations...

Charge it OP, add to value of original "book debt" - I sincerely doubt any judge won't allow it....

my 2p

I thought this only applied to B2B and not B2C? I may be wrong.

 

Just got a letter back from the cutomer saying, the reason she stopped the cheque was because the work had not been completed, the reason given is she is not happy with the end panel on the sink side as it only goes down to above the plinth and not all the way to the floor, so she has ordered a full lenth end panel to replace the small one, she then goes on to blame me for not telling her about the size of her end panel :| un real.
I have told her I was willing to knock £40 pounds off for the scratch on the sink (that has nothing to do with me anyway) but she now wants me to go back and change her end panel when it comes for free! before she will give me my cheque. Im thinking of sending her another letter that I want my payment in 7 days or I will take her to court. I dont feel I should go round and change the end panel as I fitted the kitchen that she picked and paid for to the kitchen plan. how do I stand?

 

[vvaannmmaann]

If she is willing to pay you for the original work,minus the £40 that you offered to deduct,get around there and do it.
How long will it take you to do the work? 30 minutes at the most!

 

[Kernowman]

Just got a letter back from the cutomer saying, the reason she stopped the cheque was because the work had not been completed, the reason given is she is not happy with the end panel on the sink side as it only goes down to above the plinth and not all the way to the floor, so she has ordered a full lenth end panel to replace the small one, she then goes on to blame me for not telling her about the size of her end panel :| un real.
I have told her I was willing to knock £40 pounds off for the scratch on the sink (that has nothing to do with me anyway) but she now wants me to go back and change her end panel when it comes for free! before she will give me my cheque. Im thinking of sending her another letter that I want my payment in 7 days or I will take her to court. I dont feel I should go round and change the end panel as I fitted the kitchen that she picked and paid for to the kitchen plan. how do I stand?

I really do not believe I just read that

That is the equivalent of me buying 5 tins of GREEN paint and getting someone to do all the painting for me, then me refusing to pay because I wanted BLUE paint!

Listen very carefully now to Uncle Kernowman.

Write back immediately headed "Notice Before Action" and tell her in no uncertain terms that she is committing FRAUD by cancelling that cheque. It is an offence to obtain goods or services by deception and she is attempting to deceive you by claiming that it is YOUR fault that she has ordered and paid for something that does not fit and was beyond your remit in the agreement to fit the kitchen units. I would not even discuss the possibility of knocking off £40, even less would I offer to rectify her screw up that she has made with the end panel, paid or unpaid, because she isn't trustworthy. I did say not to offer anything at all over the sink and I did that because you are capitulating to her unreasonable demands as she now sees you as being weak.

Tell her that if payment is not made in full by return post then no further correspondence will be entered into and court action will commence.

First it was the sink and now the end panel, neither of which is acceptable reason for her stopping that cheque.

 

[Shaw Stone]

This is a difficult one. In my heart I agree totally with kernowman, stand by your principles and don't let this woman rip you off!

On the other hand my practical head says cut your losses, do as she whats and learn the lesson about getting jobs signed off. If you go to court it could take months before you get a hearing and even if you win there is no guarantee of getting paid, not to mention the up front court costs to pay. I have taken five companies / people to court and won every case but through bankruptcy, liquidation and down right deception have never recovered a penny. The court bailiffs aren't exactly thorough.

 

[Merchant UK]

I agree fully with "Uncle Kernowman"

Its getting to the I want this done, and next week it'll be this wants fixing.

She did obtain services by deception when she cancelled the cheque without having any proof that it was you that did it.

The thing you need to remember is that she's in the wrong and needs to be dealt with as such. see here to get a sample letter http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/payment_letter_before_action.aspx

You should not even discuss anything else unless you recieve your money from the original job.

Did you copy out some "Completed Job" forms for next time??

 

[Kernowman]

I see this issue very plainly and clearly.

1). You formed a contract with Mrs Fussypants that she would pay £X for turning this pile of flat packed chipboard into a kitchen - of her specification.

2). You assembled the aforesaid flat packs into a kitchen. That was the beginning, the middle and the end of the contract, so she MUST pay for that.

3). It is by inference alone she agreed the contract was completed by signalling it was to her satisfaction that the work was complete by writing a cheque.

3). She stops the cheque unilaterally. She then cites "damage to the sink" as the reason why the cheque was stopped. It is irrelevant whether the sink was damaged or not, as the work was completed to her satisfaction. The time to mention this is BEFORE she wrote the cheque out and actually ask if you were responsible - or not.

4). She NOW claims that it is the wrong size of end panel fitted is the reason why the cheque was stopped and it is YOUR responsibility to a) Point out to her it's the wrong size, and B) It is to be remedied at your expense, before she is going to even consider paying what she already owes you. Next she will say that the kitchen has chrome handles and she wanted stainless handles, the wood grain doesn't match the cat's colour, the sink is polished and not brushed, he neighbour Betty got the same kitchen cheaper so why didn't you tell her that too?

I'm sorry, but I am not inclined to give someone any discount, hush money, or my time and expenses, or any goodwill of any description when quite frankly they are taking the p*ss and showing me no respect.

 

Thanks for the advise kernowman I'm going to send her a letter demanding the money she owe's. I dont see why I should waste my time and money going to fit her a new end panel, she could just turn around and think up something else to change in the kitchen, and still not give me my money. I now get customers to sign a completed job form in case this happens again, thanks for the good advise Merchant UK

 

[Merchant UK]

Thanks for the advise kernowman I'm going to send her a letter demanding the money she owe's. I dont see why I should waste my time and money going to fit her a new end panel, she could just turn around and think up something else to change in the kitchen, and still not give me my money. I now get customers to sign a completed job form in case this happens again, thanks for the good advise Merchant UK

No worries, lets just hope you get what your owed, i'm not a kitchen fitter or chippy but spent the best part of a month doing my pwn kitchen, so i know the hard work involved.

Don't pussyfoot around, you've done the job, get your money

 

I sent my customer a notice before action letter and received a reply by text message that I can go round and pick up my cheque minus the £40 for the small scratch on the sink, I'm going to take it, lets hope this does not bounce! I still feel I have been ripped off for £40 pounds not to mention all the hasle and time over this.

 

[Kernowman]

In my opinion you have been ripped of by £40 and I said so from the moment you first mentioned it.

When you collect your cheque, politely tell her if this cheque is stopped there will be no letters, no telephone calls, no nothing, it is going straight to the courts. There will be no discussion either of fitting the end panel until the cheque is cleared, so if she has a problem with that the ask for cash for what you are owed and the panel fitting.

Oddly enough, if you act in a no-nonsense professional way you do get more respect and less hassle from the punters who like to try it on.

 

[Christine Hough]

The sad thing is that if I were the trader, I would spend hours agonising over what was fair and I think that is what the poster has done.

It does sound as if the client is just playing a game to see whar she can get and not at all interesting in fairness.

Without proof that you caused the scratch you need not agree to the £40. Also you could ask her what the £40 is for.. it would not buy a new sink, it is just opportunism in my view.

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

Add a late payment charge/stopped cheque charge and replace her sink.

Just make sure the charge covers the sink. She gets her sink replaced, you get your money for the loss of an hours labour and everyone is happy. Just insist on pre-payment!

If she really wants to dodge you, then just threaten with court and gaining a ccj - not worth that for a scratch!

 

I went round to collect my cheque at a time she gave and guess what she was not in, so if I dont get it in the post today, monday I'm filing a claim against her. she is just a joke.